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Edwyn
Guest
Both quotes are found in Fr. Jacques Philippe’s book Interior Freedom, Part II, Chapter 3.
- Status
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JamalChristophr
Guest
I suppose we suffer as long as God ordains.
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. -St. Paul
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. -St. Paul
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Mary_Ellen
Guest
I suffer for as long as I suffer. The suffering in this life and in Purgatory are only but an instant compared with the length of eternity in Heaven.
Thanks for the St. Therese quote. It’s given me something to ponder.
Thanks for the St. Therese quote. It’s given me something to ponder.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
Is anybody free of suffering in this world?
I just thought it was part of the human condition
I just thought it was part of the human condition
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StephieNorthCo
Guest
Patrick Madrid made a good point on his program this morning… suffering brings one closer to God. There is a prayer, I didn’t catch whose it was, that asks God for more suffering to print the prayer closer to Him.
I know for my own case, I sometimes ask Him to take away x thorn. Sometimes He does, dome times I get the St Paul answer…
Blessings,
Stephie
I know for my own case, I sometimes ask Him to take away x thorn. Sometimes He does, dome times I get the St Paul answer…
Blessings,
Stephie
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whyeyeman
Guest
Suffering is how we become closer to God. This is why he allows it. I will to suffer as long as it brings me closer to the Lord.
“Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.” James 4:9-10
“Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.” James 4:9-10
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Edwyn
Guest
Oh I do indeed believe that it is through suffering that we find and grow to love God.
But what St Therese and Etty Hillesum are trying to say is that there are kinds of suffering that God forbids us to go through and are outright sinful.
St. Therese talks about suffering from considering the past and the future, while Etty talks mainly about the latter kind of suffering. Both should not be condoned by the Christian.
Suffering from considering the past is what is talked about by St. Paul: “For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death” (2 Corinthians 7:10). Suffering from the past, or grief, can be done in two ways: “godly” or “worldly”. Godly grief is looking at our sins, mistakes, and disasters, and offering them to God, but they do not cause regret in us. Why? “For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves guiltless in the matter” (2 Corinthians 7:11). That is, we see those “mistakes” as conduits of grace, as ways for God to bless us. “But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Romans 5:20). As St Augustine said: “For God judged it better to bring good out of evil than not to permit any evil to exist.” And as the Church sings during Easter: “O truly necessary sin of Adam, destroyed completely by the Death of Christ! O happy fault that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!”
Worldly grief thus does the opposite of this: there is no repentance, virtual or actual, but there is full of regret. For example, look at scrupulosity. It is undeniable that to be scrupulous is a wretched life; it is full of soul-wrenching suffering and anguish brought about by guilt and regret, as well as an exaggerated fear of sinning. There is actual repentance in scrupulosity, but it has virtually no repentance, for if you have repented of your sins and the priest has given you his blessing, why are you still hung up about them? It is full of fear, despair, and death: “…but worldly grief produces death.”
Speaking of fear, suffering about the future, on the other hand is, simply that: fear. Anyone knows how much suffering fear can be, especially those who have clinical anxiety. But God forbids us to be overtaken by fear: “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
So both worldly grief and worldly fear must be shunned and looked down upon; these types of suffering are not worthy even to be offered to God. But it is easier said than done.
(continued)
But what St Therese and Etty Hillesum are trying to say is that there are kinds of suffering that God forbids us to go through and are outright sinful.
St. Therese talks about suffering from considering the past and the future, while Etty talks mainly about the latter kind of suffering. Both should not be condoned by the Christian.
Suffering from considering the past is what is talked about by St. Paul: “For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death” (2 Corinthians 7:10). Suffering from the past, or grief, can be done in two ways: “godly” or “worldly”. Godly grief is looking at our sins, mistakes, and disasters, and offering them to God, but they do not cause regret in us. Why? “For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves guiltless in the matter” (2 Corinthians 7:11). That is, we see those “mistakes” as conduits of grace, as ways for God to bless us. “But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more” (Romans 5:20). As St Augustine said: “For God judged it better to bring good out of evil than not to permit any evil to exist.” And as the Church sings during Easter: “O truly necessary sin of Adam, destroyed completely by the Death of Christ! O happy fault that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!”
Worldly grief thus does the opposite of this: there is no repentance, virtual or actual, but there is full of regret. For example, look at scrupulosity. It is undeniable that to be scrupulous is a wretched life; it is full of soul-wrenching suffering and anguish brought about by guilt and regret, as well as an exaggerated fear of sinning. There is actual repentance in scrupulosity, but it has virtually no repentance, for if you have repented of your sins and the priest has given you his blessing, why are you still hung up about them? It is full of fear, despair, and death: “…but worldly grief produces death.”
Speaking of fear, suffering about the future, on the other hand is, simply that: fear. Anyone knows how much suffering fear can be, especially those who have clinical anxiety. But God forbids us to be overtaken by fear: “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
So both worldly grief and worldly fear must be shunned and looked down upon; these types of suffering are not worthy even to be offered to God. But it is easier said than done.
(continued)
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Edwyn
Guest
Quick! Don’t think about an elephant holding a red balloon with its trunk!
So what did you think about?
Similarly, trying to fight both worldly grief and fear by doing the opposite of what they suggest seems only to make them more prominent and stronger, and this fight only produces more suffering.
But, AH, this kind of suffering…the suffering brought by fighting our grief and fear is pure and pleasing to God! You fight your grief and fear because you love God and want to obey Him . Therefore, offer this kind of suffering to Him and unite it with Jesus’ suffering as He fought His fears and griefs in the Garden of Gethsemane.
So what did you think about?
Similarly, trying to fight both worldly grief and fear by doing the opposite of what they suggest seems only to make them more prominent and stronger, and this fight only produces more suffering.
But, AH, this kind of suffering…the suffering brought by fighting our grief and fear is pure and pleasing to God! You fight your grief and fear because you love God and want to obey Him . Therefore, offer this kind of suffering to Him and unite it with Jesus’ suffering as He fought His fears and griefs in the Garden of Gethsemane.
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Greenfields
Guest
Reading St Theresa’s quote was like having a weight lifted off shoulders
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JamalChristophr
Guest
I want to share one of my favorite quotes from Saint Faustina since it has to do with suffering:
“Suffering is a great grace; through suffering the soul becomes like the Savior; in suffering love becomes crystallized; the greater the suffering, the purer the love.”
“Suffering is a great grace; through suffering the soul becomes like the Savior; in suffering love becomes crystallized; the greater the suffering, the purer the love.”
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metanoia1
Guest
We all suffer in this lifetime. We suffer because we aren't residing in the present moment, the here and now. Most of the suffering if not all is brought on by ourselves. When we learn to be present and let go we suffering less. It is up to us how much, how deeply, and how long we suffer. That is in my view.- Status