Death, and the Second Coming of Christ

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Andrew2009

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I’m a bit confused about something…

My understanding has been that when we die, we are judged, and as a result we either go to heaven, hell or purgatory. I also understand that when Christ returns at the end of time, there is a judgment of all mankind, followed by resurrection of the dead.

So - if we die before the return of Christ, would this mean that we go through two judgments (one at death, and another one at the second coming)? This seems strange - if we have already been judged and are in heaven or hell, why would we be judged again? What would be the point?

And - if we are already in heaven before the return of Christ, and our body is resurrected at the second coming, what’s the point of this, since we’re already in heaven? Why would we need our resurrected body?

I realise these questions may sound a bit dumb, and may be based on faulty understanding on my part, but I really am confused on this point. I guess I don’t understand what happens at the second coming of Christ and how this fits in with what happens to us as individuals, when we die.

Can anyone point me in the right direction here, or suggest any further reading etc? I’ve tried searching for information on the Catholic view of the “end times” but without much luck.

Thanks…
 
The general feeling I get from my fellow Catholics and all of the teachings I’ve been exposed to was to stay away from end of times thinking, to live like it can come at any moment, and don’t worry about semantics, sadly, this is in opposition to protestant thinking which tends to misinterpret revelations.

One thing to understand, that we don’t know how time works after we die, so in theory, we could just be fast forwarded to that final judgment, not being limited to linear time and space itself. There is a point here as well with heaven, it states a new heaven and a new earth, so perhaps we may reside in the old one for a while, drifting until the new one is created. I don’t know beyond that.
 
Andrew2009 said:
I’m a bit confused about something…

My understanding has been that when we die, we are judged, and as a result we either go to heaven, hell or purgatory. I also understand that when Christ returns at the end of time, there is a judgment of all mankind, followed by resurrection of the dead.

So - if we die before the return of Christ, would this mean that we go through two judgments (one at death, and another one at the second coming)? This seems strange - if we have already been judged and are in heaven or hell, why would we be judged again? What would be the point?
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Here is a quote from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:
"…While in the particular judgment the human being is judged as an individual person, in the general judgment he will be judged as a member of the human society, before the whole of humanity. The punishment or reward will be completed by its extension to the re-awakened bodies. …

The Catechism (CCC #678) makes note that in the final judgement, “the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts (will) be brought to light”. There is a footnote reference to
Luke 12:2 Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
1 Cor 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God.
And - if we are already in heaven before the return of Christ, and our body is resurrected at the second coming, what’s the point of this, since we’re already in heaven? Why would we need our resurrected body?
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We are “human beings” and as such we are complete only when we are a union of body and soul. It seems to me there would be a sense of incompleteness until we are united with our resurrected bodies. The following verses from Revelations always speaks to me of this “incompleteness” experienced by those souls who are already in heaven, but waiting for something more that has yet to happen.
Rev. 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
 
Andrew2009 said:
I’m a bit confused about something…

My understanding has been that when we die, we are judged, and as a result we either go to heaven, hell or purgatory. I also understand that when Christ returns at the end of time, there is a judgment of all mankind, followed by resurrection of the dead.

So - if we die before the return of Christ, would this mean that we go through two judgments (one at death, and another one at the second coming)? This seems strange - if we have already been judged and are in heaven or hell, why would we be judged again? What would be the point?

And - if we are already in heaven before the return of Christ, and our body is resurrected at the second coming, what’s the point of this, since we’re already in heaven? Why would we need our resurrected body?

I realise these questions may sound a bit dumb, and may be based on faulty understanding on my part, but I really am confused on this point. I guess I don’t understand what happens at the second coming of Christ and how this fits in with what happens to us as individuals, when we die.

Can anyone point me in the right direction here, or suggest any further reading etc? I’ve tried searching for information on the Catholic view of the “end times” but without much luck.

Thanks…
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We don’t know for sure the exact process. Is that ok with you?
 
First of all, I highly recommend a book entitled: Purgatory and the Means to Avoid It. It deals with the Last Four Things.

I found this explanation of the general judgement:
"The Roman Catechism thus explains why, besides the particular judgment of each individual, (*this is immediately after death)*a general one should also be passed on the assembled world: “The first reason is founded on the circumstances that most augment the rewards or aggravate the punishments of the dead. Those who depart this life sometimes leave behind them children who imitate the conduct of their parents, descendants, followers; and others who adhere to and advocate the example, the language, the conduct of those on whom they depend, and whose example they follow; and as the good or bad influence or example, affecting as it does the conduct of many, is to terminate only with this world; justice demands that, in order to form a proper estimate of the good or bad actions of all, a general judgment should take place. . . . Finally, it was important to prove, that in prosperity and adversity, which are sometimes the promiscuous lot of the good and of the bad, everything is ordered by an all-wise, all-just, and all-ruling Providence: it was therefore necessary not only that rewards and punishments should await us in the next life but that they should be awarded by a public and general judgment.”

When I began to understand that everything I say or do will be brought into the light at the general judgment, well, all I can say is that I am very careful about not being charitable.
 
diggerdomer said:
We don’t know for sure the exact process. Is that ok with you?
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If you have nothing to say and no information to give on the subject, why did you bother to reply? Please don’t waste my time with dumb and sarcastic comments. Is that OK with you?
 
To Nita and bnbkaine: thanks for your replies they are very helpful. Cheers…
 
Nita said:
We are “human beings” and as such we are complete only when we are a union of body and soul. It seems to me there would be a sense of incompleteness until we are united with our resurrected bodies. The following verses from Revelations always speaks to me of this “incompleteness” experienced by those souls who are already in heaven, but waiting for something more that has yet to happen.
Rev. 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
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Good summary.

In the creed we talk about the resurrection of the body, and life in the world to come. Revelation gives us glimpses of heaven, such as the above quote, and glimpses of a new creation, as we have been hearing at Sunday Masses the last few weeks. St. Paul talked about seeing God in his flesh (Paul’s flesh, not God’s) on the last day.

Traditionally we have talked about the particular judgment of the soul at death, and the general judgment of all humans at the end of time. Also the general judgment speaks to the rewards of our earthly works, not just salvation or damnation.
 
Andrew2009 said:
If you have nothing to say and no information to give on the subject, why did you bother to reply? Please don’t waste my time with dumb and sarcastic comments. Is that OK with you?
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I wasn’t intending to be sarcastic, and I sincerely apologize if I am dumb.

I was simply trying to say that we just don’t know the exact process. If you disagree, let me know, I’d be happy to learn more.

Thanks for your considerate response.
 
diggerdomer said:
I wasn’t intending to be sarcastic, and I sincerely apologize if I am dumb.

I was simply trying to say that we just don’t know the exact process. If you disagree, let me know, I’d be happy to learn more.

Thanks for your considerate response.
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Hi there - my apologies, I completely misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry about that - it’s my mistake. Thanks for letting me know, and best wishes to you…
 
Andrew2009 said:
Hi there - my apologies, I completely misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry about that - it’s my mistake. Thanks for letting me know, and best wishes to you…
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Thanks. No problem. After reading your post, I saw how what I wrote could have been read in a way I completely did not intend. Thanks again.
 
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