Death Penalty and Abortion part of the same issue?

[DL82]

I wanted to gather opinions on this, because I know they differ on here.

Do you think that capital punishment and abortion are part of the same culture of death which tries to deny God His rightful role as Lord of life?

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Abortion = Murder of the innocent.
Death Penalty = Execution of the guilty

The differece is that one is murder and the other is not. I find it amazing that many who are totally against the Death Penalty are in favor of Abortion. Murder the innocent and let the guilty go free mentality.

As for me, I am oppose both except in an extreeme case with the Death Penalty. In my lifetime, there has been one and only one instance where I have thought the Death Penalty was totally justified. That was Sadaam Hussein.

 

[Contarini]

I wanted to gather opinions on this, because I know they differ on here.

Do you think that capital punishment and abortion are part of the same culture of death which tries to deny God His rightful role as Lord of life?

I can’t answer this poll because I can answer yes to parts of all three:

1. The death penalty (as practiced, and still more as advocated, in our society) and abortion are both part of the culture of death; however
2. They are very different, since one is the murder of the innocent, while the other is justified when (and only when) it is necessary to protect society; therefore
3. I am in favor of executing murderers when and only when there is no other way to protect the innocent (and when their guilt is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, not just beyond a “reasonable doubt”).

I think that my position here is pretty much that of Pope JPII, but I could be wrong.

Edwin

 

[SoCalRC]

In my lifetime, there has been one and only one instance where I have thought the Death Penalty was totally justified. That was Sadaam Hussein.

I would actually be interested in hearing your reasoning on this. Hussein was undeniably a terrible tyrant, but it is hard for me to see him as particularly standing out from a number of terrible rulers around the world.

Also, his execution seems to have created considerably more violence. This often happens when someone achieves martyr status with a group of people, particularly against a religious backdrop where martyrdom is prized.

Last, if he was singularly terrible to you, how do you feel about all the US support he received before his invasion of Kuwait? The thinking at the time was, yes he is horrible, yes he wants weapons of mass destruction, but at least he is secular and, like us, is an enemy of Iran.

I am not asking this to upset you, I really would like to know what sorts of things swayed you in this situation.

Best Regards

 

[estesbob]

I wanted to gather opinions on this, because I know they differ on here.

Do you think that capital punishment and abortion are part of the same culture of death which tries to deny God His rightful role as Lord of life?

I oppose both. However abortion is intrinsically evil and the death penalty is not. They are totally separate issues. Usually when people try to claim their are of equal importance it is to justify their support of pro-abortion candidates

 

[melensdad]

Not enough poll choices, none of them reflect my choice.

I beleive they are both part of the cuture of death.

I believe that we must oppose abortion.

I believe that in MOST cases we should oppose the death penalty, but not in ALL cases and this thought is in line with the teachings of the Church as outlined in the Catechism.

I do not believe we should put all murders to death, as the poll choice suggests. I beleive that there are some violent criminals that, may be a real threat and may not be able to be controlled in prison, and those prisons MAY be eligible for a death penalty.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Again, not enough poll choices.

1. The death penalty (as practiced, and still more as advocated, in our society) and abortion are both part of the culture of death

I do NOT believe that the death penalty is part of the “culture of death”…in general terms those who support abortion seem to OPPOSE the death penalty.

These are two seperate issues…one involves the murder of innocent babies, the other of convicted criminals.

I am completely oppossed to abortion.
I am NOT oppossed to the death penalty in principle, but find that the way it is carried out in the US favors those criminals with large bank accounts.

 

[tvdxer]

I wanted to gather opinions on this, because I know they differ on here.

Do you think that capital punishment and abortion are part of the same culture of death which tries to deny God His rightful role as Lord of life?

I think the two are really incomparable. Abortion is the killing of an unborn child; capital punishment is the killing of a sentenced criminal.

Nevertheless, I’m still against death penalty in addition to abortion. I don’t think the death penalty is necessary in the world we live in today. So yeah, I think opposition to abortion and to the death penalty can both fall under the pro-life mentality.

 

[manualman]

I’m with estesbob. Verbatim.

 

[Evan]

I’m with Yerusalyim.

In principal, Death Penilty could be used. In practice it becomes more difficult.

 

[Genesis315]

I wouldn’t necessarily say they are *totally *separate issues.

As we know abortion is intrinsically evil while the death penalty can be justified legitimately. That being said, while it is acceptable, there are alternatives that are more in conformity with the inviolable nature of human dignity and which foster the general respect for human life necessary in a culture that lacks such respect.

Likewise, one might also argue that allowing more time to live, repent, and reform one’s life, and do penance by serving time in jail, etc., the patient and merciful law of Christ is better reflected.

For this reason, given modern conditions, abortion should be outlawed for doctrinal and prudential reasons, while the death penalty should be abolished for the same prudential reasons (but without the doctrinal reasons).

 

[Amolibri]

“Capital punishment feeds the cycle of violence in society by pandering to a lust for revenge. It brutalizes us, and deadens
our sensitivities to the precious nature of every single human life.”
– Most Rev. David B. Thompson, Bishop of Charleston, S.C.,

 

[Ender]

“Capital punishment feeds the cycle of violence in society by pandering to a lust for revenge. It brutalizes us, and deadens our sensitivities to the precious nature of every single human life.”
– Most Rev. David B. Thompson, Bishop of Charleston, S.C.,

Comments like this, especially from priests, are doubly disappointing in that they are uncharitable as well as overblown.

Most people recognize the seemingly odd fact that much of the support for the death penalty comes from those who strongly oppose abortion, while much of the most vocal opposition to the former comes from those who support the latter. It has likewise been noted that more and more countries in Europe outlawed capital punishment as they became more secular.

There is something significant in these factoids that is completely unaddressed by the bishop’s judgmental charges.

Ender

 

[rlg94086]

Not enough poll choices, none of them reflect my choice.

I beleive they are both part of the cuture of death.

I believe that we must oppose abortion.

I believe that in MOST cases we should oppose the death penalty, but not in ALL cases and this thought is in line with the teachings of the Church as outlined in the Catechism.

I do not believe we should put all murders to death, as the poll choice suggests. I beleive that there are some violent criminals that, may be a real threat and may not be able to be controlled in prison, and those prisons MAY be eligible for a death penalty.

I agree…just take melensdad’s post and put my name on it.

 

[St_Francis]

I do not believe that abortion and the DP are in any way connected or equivalent. I also do not think that the DP is a part of the culture of death.

I do believe that there are some problems in the justice system, and that the DP should be very restricted in its use.

 

[Amolibri]

Comments like this, especially from priests, are doubly disappointing in that they are uncharitable as well as overblown.

Most people recognize the seemingly odd fact that much of the support for the death penalty comes from those who strongly oppose abortion, while much of the most vocal opposition to the former comes from those who support the latter. It has likewise been noted that more and more countries in Europe outlawed capital punishment as they became more secular.

There is something significant in these factoids that is completely unaddressed by the bishop’s judgmental charges.

Ender

Do you not recognize your own ‘Judgmentalism’? …or would you like to rephrase it as simply your opinion???

 

[Brendan]

“Capital punishment feeds the cycle of violence in society by pandering to a lust for revenge. It brutalizes us, and deadens
our sensitivities to the precious nature of every single human life.”
– Most Rev. David B. Thompson, Bishop of Charleston, S.C.,

“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man”

– God, Creator of Charleston S,C

 

[Ender]

Do you not recognize your own ‘Judgmentalism’? …or would you like to rephrase it as simply your opinion???

I was objecting to the statement that “Capital punishment … pander{s} to a lust for revenge” with the implication that this is what motivates those who support the death penalty. Neither the bishop nor you nor I have any idea why most people support capital punishment and this statement is at best rash judgment and at worst it is calumny. It is certainly uncharitable.

The above is my opinion. If I were to add that the bishop is pandering to public opinion then I too would be guilty of being judgmental.

Ender

 

[Ender]

“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man”

The responsibilities of the state and of the individual are different. The following is from Cardinal Avery Dulles’ article on Catholicism and Capital Punishment.

“Catholic authorities justify the right of the State to inflict capital punishment on the ground that the State does not act on its own authority but as the agent of God, who is supreme lord of life and death. In so holding they can properly appeal to Scripture. Paul holds that the ruler is God’s minister in executing God’s wrath against the evildoer (Romans 13:4). Peter admonishes Christians to be subject to emperors and governors, who have been sent by God to punish those who do wrong (1 Peter 2:13). Jesus, as already noted, apparently recognized that Pilate’s authority over his life came from God (John 19:11).
Pius XII, in a further clarification of the standard argument, holds that when the State, acting by its ministerial power, uses the death penalty, it does not exercise dominion over human life but only recognizes that the criminal, by a kind of moral suicide, has deprived himself of the right to life. In the Pope’s words,Even when there is question of the execution of a condemned man, the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. In this case it is reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned person of the enjoyment of life in expiation of his crime when, by his crime, he has already dispossessed himself of his right to life.In light of all this it seems safe to conclude that the death penalty is not in itself a violation of the right to life.”

Ender

 

[Amolibri]

OK, so you agree with Dulles, but not with Thompson.

I don’t agree that the state has the right to deprive anyone of life…to me that is consistent with pro-life. I see retribution as not belonging to the state…especially since our system is fraught with imperfections and injustice. Not sure how many times I must state my OPINION, having you trying to convince me and others…otherwise. Can we leave it at that, or do you have a compulsion to show me that my opinion is wrong? I don’t get it.