Death penalty and purpose of punishment

[dudleysharp]

Reasonable logic Ender. We just disagree on what people deserve. I believe that they deserve a full opportunity to come to the knowledge of truth (Jesus Christ) - and that is the only point of living a full natural human life. :

JD:

You repeat a blantant error within the Catechism, which you may now be aware of.

There is this additional problem:

2267: “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself”.

The Catechism finds that we should end the death penalty in order to provide alternate sanctions “without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself” (2267)

First, the Catechism states, above, that the wrongdoer redeems himself. The biblical/theological realities find that all wrongdoers can/should seek redemption, but that God provides redemption to the wrongdoer by His grace. Wrongdoers can only seek redemption, they cannot provide it to themselves.

Secondly, the Church is, hereby, stating that the death penalty is “taking away from him (the executed party) the possibility of redeeming himself”. (2267)

The Catechism is stating that the God invoked sanction of death takes away the possibility of redemption. Think about that. There is nothing to defend such a claim, in such a context.

All of our sins have us die “early”. Is there a case, whereby God has erased the possibility of our redemption, solely because of our earthly and “early” deaths? Such an interpretation is, in context, flatly, against God’s message and cannot stand.

The biblical record, its interpretations, the Magesterium and virtually all knowledgeable Christian scholars and laymen, Catholic or not, find that the universal blessing that God gives us is that we all have the opportunity of being redeemed “before we die”. The death penalty does not/cannot take that away anymore than does a car wreck, cancer, old age or any other “earthly” and “early” death, meaning all deaths, because of our sins. We all die “early” because of our sins.

It is as if the Church had, completely, forgotten the meaning of St. Dismas’ death, his words exchanged with Jesus and the promise to come. (7)

The Catechism, wrongly, finds that all “early” deaths, meaning all earthly deaths, negate the possibility of our being redeemed. Such is an astonishing claim, if not much worse.

In God’s perfection, we suffer an “early” death, because of our sins. The Catechism wrongly tells us that our “early” deaths takes away the possibility of our being redeemed. It can’t and does not. God gives all of us the opportunity of redemption, in His grace, before our earthly and early deaths, no matter what that death may be.

This newest Catechism cannot rewrite that, even though it is trying to.

Furthermore, a unique benefit of the death penalty is that the offender knows the day of their death and therefore has a huge advantage over the rest of us and, most certainly over the innocent murder victim.

“. . . a secondary measure of the love of God may be said to appear. For capital punishment provides the murderer with incentive to repentance which the ordinary man does not have, that is a definite date on which he is to meet his God. It is as if God thus providentially granted him a special inducement to repentance out of consideration of the enormity of his crime . . . the law grants to the condemned an opportunity which he did not grant to his victim, the opportunity to prepare to meet his God. Even divine justice here may be said to be tempered with mercy.” Carey agrees with Saints Augustine and Aquinas, that executions represent mercy to the wrongdoer: (p. 116). Quaker biblical scholar Dr. Gervas A. Carey. A Professor of Bible and past President of George Fox College, Essays on the Death Penalty, T. Robert Ingram, ed., St. Thomas Press, Houston, 1963, 1992

St. Thomas Aquinas: “The fact that the evil, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit the fact that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement. They also have at that critical point of death the opportunity to be converted to God through repentance. And if they are so stubborn that even at the point of death their heart does not draw back from evil, it is possible to make a highly probable judgement that they would never come away from evil to the right use of their powers.” Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III, 146.

 

[dudleysharp]

Ender:

I think you should know what you are dealing with here:

Tradition in the Catholic sense is LIVING - it isn’t stagnant or fixed. The writings of Augustine and Aquinas on Capital Punishment are outdated. They had no clue that one day prisons could be secure enough to hold people for their entire lives and they had no understanding of judges being able to impose life sentences without the possibility of parole.

The two greatest Doctors of the Church - outdated. It is difficult to come up with an appropriate response.

YD:

Egypt employed extensive prison use as far back as 2000 BC. Used of prisons was discussed in Genesis.

Please review:

books.google.com/books?id=bwvH5ce94eIC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=history+imprisonment+egypt&source=bl&ots=UbmU1nqKxO&sig=J-GMbCUmFY4RDTUCroTjOeJRN4w&hl=en&ei=orsHTPHOGIH_8AaG5cHBAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=history%20imprisonment%20egypt&f=false

 

[Ender]

Reasonable logic Ender. We just disagree on what people deserve. I believe that they deserve a full opportunity to come to the knowledge of truth (Jesus Christ) - and that is the only point of living a full natural human life. No one deserves anything less than knowing Jesus Christ regardless of the sins that they have committed in their life; for, if they had known and loved Him they more than likely would not have sinned as they did.

The Church recognizes that rehabilitation is a valid objective of punishment but has never supported the idea that this objective takes precedence over that of retributive justice. Each of us is given the opportunity to make our own decisions and the person on death row has not just the time but the incentive to examine his life and come to terms with his actions. He certainly has more opportunity to right his own ship than people who are cut down by accidents.

Ender

 

[Ender]

On the contrary; my point has always been that captial punishment needs to be replaced by love and mercy.

It may be your point but it is not the Church’s position; this is not what she teaches. What she says is that the State has not just the right but the absolute duty to punish the criminal and nowhere does she teach that mercy - and what I think you really mean here is clemency, not mercy - should be handed out in literally every situation.

He wants us all in Heaven. Therefore, offer love and mercy rather than violence, revenge and flawed justice.

You don’t have a good grasp of the value of justice.

Almighty God, because he is merciful and full of pity, taketh no pleasure in the torments of wretched men: but because he is also just, therefore doth he never give over to punish the wicked. (Pope Gregory the Great)

Ender

 

[Ender]

Egypt employed extensive prison use as far back as 2000 BC. Used of prisons was discussed in Genesis.

I have never really understood the claim that life in prison was unknown until modern penitentiaries were created. Such claims are simply uninformed.

…but if he has fallen several times into the same fault, he is to be condemned to permanent imprisonment or to the galleys, at the decision of the appointed judge. (Fifth Lateran Council, 1512-17)

Ender

 

[yosephdaviyd]

Dudley, I am done with this string for the second time in two weeks. LOL I see the same people are hidding behind what the Church permits state governments for now and not looking for what Christ Jesus demands from you as His disciple. And again, unless one of you are ready to step up and be an executioner on death row, just be quiet about it already and go love on the guy on death row instead of tapping on your keyboard about giving him the justice that God has held back on giving you. The self-righteousness here disgusts me.

Anyway, since you want to hide behind your self-interested interpretation of Church teaching and the old Doctors of the Church - remember - Augustine wrote in City of God that the world is flat and talked about cyclopes and tri-pod humanoids if I recall correctly. Aquinas was wrong about conception.

So, that’s my final word on that.

 

[d97c]

No one has EVER shown that the longer the convicted murderer lives, the more likely a convicted murderer is likely to have a “come to Jesus meeting.” I assert that if the death penalty is given as a sentence and the killer is getting close to the chair, he or she is likely at THAT time to have a death bed conversion, IF it is going to happen. Nothing like the prospect of facing your ultimate “reward” to face the “reward giver” and repent. Keeping Hitler alive (with a life without parole conviction) had he been caught, would have been the ultimate disrespect for the killing of a generation of Jews. …
and those who criticize the death penalty cant rebut this statement:
For about one thousand nine hundred and eighty years (1980) the Catholic Church supported and taught that the state had the right and yes the duty to inflict the ultimate punishment as proportional punishment. They were right then and we are right now. Pope Benedict says we can support the death penalty and I DO !!!

 

[yosephdaviyd]

Pope Benedict says we can support the death penalty and I DO !!!

Well, since you love murdering people so much and setting the time-frame for which they are allowed to come to Christ in your book of life, go and do something that Pope Benedict will never do - fill out an application to be an executioner. I believe they are hiring in Texas, China, Iran, and the Sudan. Bon Vonage and Adios!

 

[d97c]

Mr Gray, welcome back . We missed ya. Your shallow arguments and personal slams are typical. That silly argument of applying for a job as an executioner shows you havent thought much about the issue in depth. As a prosecutor and then as a defense attorney, I argued positions based on my client and EMPLOYER. No one takes the death penalty as frivolous as you do. I believe in qualified death case lawyers being appointed for each defendant if he cant afford a lawyer. I also believe that DNA tests, in appropriate cases, should be ordered by each trial judge. I believe that juries should be selected in a fair manner, with protections against race discrimination (as there are in the law thanks to the US Supreme Court). BUT I believe that the nation through its law makers have spoken and once protections have been given, the church tradition and current Holy Father say that we Catholics who support the death penalty are able to vote for those who support it as law makers and assert it as different from abortion. No one can legitimately say that there is no difference from taking innocent life in lets say an abortion, and taking the life of a horrible murderer like A Hitler for example. The 2 are not morally comparable.

 

[Ender]

I see the same people are hidding behind what the Church permits state governments for now and not looking for what Christ Jesus demands from you as His disciple.

Given that we can quote what the Church actually teaches, and has done so consistently for 2000 years, and you can cite nothing other than 2267 - which is the personal opinion of JPII - it’s not clear that you have any great claim to understand better than we what it is that Christ taught. Unless you claim that the Church is wrong on this matter, that is.

And again, unless one of you are ready to step up and be an executioner on death row…

What is more hideous than a hangman? What is more cruel and ferocious than his character? And yet he holds a necessary post in the very midst of laws, and he is incorporated into the order of a well-regulated state; himself criminal in character, he is nevertheless, by others’ arrangement, the penalty of evildoers. (Augustine)

… just be quiet about it already and go love on the guy on death row instead of tapping on your keyboard about giving him the justice that God has held back on giving you.

For that he so long delayed their punishment was due to his mercy; that he finally punished them, to his justice. (Salvian c. 400)

Anyway, since you want to hide behind your self-interested interpretation of Church teaching and the old Doctors of the Church - remember - Augustine wrote in City of God that the world is flat and talked about cyclopes and tri-pod humanoids if I recall correctly. Aquinas was wrong about conception.

Citing Church teaching is not the same as “self_interpreting” it. That her position is contrary to yours is something for you to deal with. Nor is accepting Church teaching quite the same thing as hiding behind it.

Ender

 

[yosephdaviyd]

Given that we can quote what the Church actually teaches, and has done so consistently for 2000 years, and you can cite nothing other than 2267 - which is the personal opinion of JPII - it’s not clear that you have any great claim to understand better than we what it is that Christ taught. Unless you claim that the Church is wrong on this matter, that is.
What is more hideous than a hangman? What is more cruel and ferocious than his character? And yet he holds a necessary post in the very midst of laws, and he is incorporated into the order of a well-regulated state; himself criminal in character, he is nevertheless, by others’ arrangement, the penalty of evildoers. (Augustine)
For that he so long delayed their punishment was due to his mercy; that he finally punished them, to his justice. (Salvian c. 400)
Citing Church teaching is not the same as “self_interpreting” it. That her position is contrary to yours is something for you to deal with. Nor is accepting Church teaching quite the same thing as hiding behind it.

Ender

Well I don’t slice and dice people’s post and I don’t respond to slice and dice my post – everything is taken out of context now.

All I can say in totality to your point here is that I am at the same place where the California Bishops are and the future position of the Church and you are on the wrong side.

I hope you went to Mass today and looked at the Crucifix. That is what capital punishment looks like and you will never be able to justify killing Jesus in your neighbor. Keep hiding behind what the Church “permits” for GOVERNMENTS and you will have never opened your eyes to love and mercy.

God Bless

 

[yosephdaviyd]

Mr Gray, welcome back . We missed ya. Your shallow arguments and personal slams are typical.

Sorry if my attempt at humor offends you. No harm intended.

 

[dudleysharp]

Sorry if my attempt at humor offends you. No harm intended.

YD:

It is your non attempt at mature dialogue and your intended personal attacks which are not helpful to anyone, including, most importantly, yourself.

I would ask of you to learn of the importance of biblical, theological, historical, rational and traditional teachings of the Church, inclusive of the importance of the Doctors of the Church, inclusive of Augustine and Aquinas, who many find, in disciplines of philosophy and theology, to be giants given great respect.

Although you think both Aquinas and Augustine to be out of date, please consider their references within the current Catechism and why the Church uses them.

Think and reflect … and be more charitable.

 

[yosephdaviyd]

YD:

Think and reflect … and be more charitable.

What you consider personal attacks and lack of mature dialouge are challenges to the lack of love and mercy that I see expressed by some of you. You men are good at repeating what the Church teaches, but weak at talking about how the Holy Spirit is using the teachings of the Church to conform you to the image of Christ. I’ll debate you for a moment on what the Church teaches, but once I see your heart I begin to speak it that and not to your head. That is what I do - if you dont like it then don’t read my post, becuase I am going to keep challenging you to be better humans In Christ.

I am very well versed on all aspects of Catholic Theology and have read the bulk of Augustine’s and Aquinas writings. I have read the CCC many times. Most imporantly, I read sacred Scripture daily in harmony with the Church. If you were to read by Blog and books you would see the depth of my understanding of what the Church teaches. But what I have found most important is the read the writings of the Fathers and the CCC in harmony with the Holy Spirit and in context of my personal relationship with Jesus Christ and what He has done in my life. It is through my experience that I understand the experience of others.

So again, I challenge you to form your own conscience in harmony with the Church, rather than being parrot. Form your own experience and rely not on the experience of others. I will try to be more charitable as you ask - I know my flaws well, but I ask you to start the process of seeing Jesus Christ in EVERYONE, even those you think do not deserve mercy.

Some of you men here make my very sad, because you haven’t arrived at that place where you realize who you are and the divine justice that you desire. You seem to be very proud men. I know what is coming for you - it came for, and I feel for you, but it will be good for you to cry out for mercy, so that you will stop condemning people.

God Bless You

 

[AHapka]

hidding behind what the Church permits state governments for now and not looking for what Christ Jesus demands from you as His disciple.

I always thought Jesus demanded us to be obedient to the Church He established and our religious superiors He put into place. I have a hard time believing that it would be a sin or wrong to do what the Church has stated we can do.

That being said, I am personally a fan of life imprisonment when possible.

 

[d97c]

“Some of you men here make my very sad, because you haven’t arrived at that place where you realize who you are…???”
David, I must say that you are really not qualified to make that psychologocal evaluation. I have read your links and so I say once again…you should not be so quick at the evaluation of another person’s identity or heart. We are arguing the death penalty here,not if you think I or anyone else knows who he or she “is.” I’m not going to convince you and you sure aren’t going to convince me. So make your points and quit with the psych-babble and predictions of DOOM for those of us who are following the teachings of the Holy Father who said:

** “While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.”**
priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

 

[dudleysharp]

YD:

What I and others saw as personal attacks from you were personal attacks.

In addition, I think that there is a perception issue with regard to love and mercy and how some may replace God’s mercy with man’s. See below.

It very much hurts your credibility within this discussion to call Augustine and Aquinas out of date, when there are repeated references to them within the current Catechism - the primary subject of the dicussions

It is best that the mind and the heart participate together.

You write: “It is through my experience that I understand the experience of others.”

That most certainly does not appear to be the case.

Your challenge “I challenge you to form your own conscience in harmony with the Church, rather than being parrot.” is not one of understanding, but one of wrongful presumption and is appears to be another personal insult, which lacks the charity I discussed.

I don’t think anyone, here, is simply being a parrot. Of course, I (and others) am a vocal critique of the newest Catechism and what I see as its blatant errors and contradictions - not at all a parrot. I and others are attempting to look at well known Church teachings in the context of this newest Catechism. The excercise is not one of parroting, but one of understanding - very different.

I think this statement may simply reflect your self serving ego:

“Some of you men here make my very sad, because you haven’t arrived at that place where you realize who you are and the divine justice that you desire. You seem to be very proud men. I know what is coming for you - it came for, and I feel for you, but it will be good for you to cry out for mercy, so that you will stop condemning people.”

I think that we are all trying to identify the truth. Instead of your experience providing understanding of others, it appears to have the opposite effect on you. It appears that you find that your experience has made you moree effective in understanding who you are and the divine justice that you desire and that you find the rest of us lost in the woods.

Proud, indeed!

I can only hope that we are all trying to do a bit better, ervery day.

---

Mercy & the Death Penalty
Dudley Sharp

1. Saint Augustine: " . . . inflicting capital punishment . . . protects those who are undergoing capital punishment from the harm they may suffer . . . through increased sinning which might continue if their life went on." (On the Lord’s Sermon, 1.20.63-64.)
2. Saint Thomas Aquinas: . . . the death inflicted by the judge profits the sinner, if he be converted, unto the expiation of his crime; and, if he be not converted, it profits so as to put an end to the sin, because the sinner is thus deprived of the power to sin anymore." (Summa Theologica, II-II, 25, 6, 2
3. “. . . a secondary measure of the love of God may be said to appear. For capital punishment provides the murderer with incentive to repentance which the ordinary man does not have, that is a definite date on which he is to meet his God. It is as if God thus providentially granted him a special inducement to repentance out of consideration of the enormity of his crime . . . the law grants to the condemned an opportunity which he did not grant to his victim, the opportunity to prepare to meet his God. Even divine justice here may be said to be tempered with mercy.” Quaker, biblical scholar Dr. Gervas A. Carey (1) (p. 116).

contd

 

[dudleysharp]

contd

1. Romano Amerio, a faithful Catholic Vatican insider, scholar, professor at the Academy of Lugano, consultant to the Preparatory Commission of Vatican II, and a peritus (expert theologian) at the Council.

“The most irreligious aspect of this argument against capital punishment is that it denies its expiatory value which, from a religious point of view, is of the highest importance because it can include a final consent to give up the greatest of all worldly goods."

"This fits exactly with St. Thomas’s opinion that as well as canceling out any debt that the criminal owes to civil society, capital punishment can cancel all punishment due in the life to come. His thought is . . . Summa, ‘Even death inflicted as a punishment for crimes takes away the whole punishment due for those crimes in the next life, or a least part of that punishment, according to the quantities of guilt, resignation and contrition; but a natural death does not.’ "

"The moral importance of wanting to make expiation also explains the indefatigable efforts of the Confraternity of St. John the Baptist Beheaded, the members of which used to accompany men to their deaths, all the while suggesting, begging and providing help to get them to repent and accept their deaths, so ensuring that they would die in the grace of God, as the saying went.” (2)

Some opposing capital punishment ". . . go on to assert that a life should not be ended because that would remove the possibility of making expiation, is to ignore the great truth that capital punishment is itself expiatory. In a humanistic religion expiation would of course be primarily the converting of a man to other men. On that view, time is needed to effect a reformation, and the time available should not be shortened. In God’s religion, on the other hand, expiation is primarily a recognition of the divine majesty and lordship, which can be and should be recognized at every moment, in accordance with the principle of the concentration of one’s moral life.” (2)

Some death penalty opponents “deny the expiatory value of death; death which has the highest expiatory value possible among natural things, precisely because life is the highest good among the relative goods of this world; and it is by consenting to sacrifice that life, that the fullest expiation can be made. And again, the expiation that the innocent Christ made for the sins of mankind was itself effected through his being condemned to death.” (2)

1. The Catechism of The Roman Catholic Church (2005) states: “The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense.” “When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation.” 2266

This is a specific reference to justice, just retribution, just deserts and the like, all of which redress the disorder.

We must first recognize the guilt/sin/crime/disorder of the aggressor and hold them accountable for it by way of penalty, meaning the penalty should be just and appropriate for the guilt/sin/crime/disorder and should represent justice/just retribution/just deserts and their like which “redress the disorder caused by the offence” or to correct an imbalance, as defined within the example of 2260

“For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning… Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.” “This teaching remains necessary for all time.”

1. Jesus: Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.” The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” (Jesus) replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Luke 23: 39-43

Mercy, salvation and redemption will not be measured by the method of our earthly death , but by our state of grace in the context of the eternal.

1. C. S. Lewis: "According to the Humanitarian theory, to punish a man because he deserves it, and as much as he deserves, is mere revenge, and, therefore, barbarous and immoral. It is maintained that the only legitimate motives for punishing are the desire to deter others by example or to mend the criminal. "

“I believe that the “Humanity” which it claims is a dangerous illusion and disguises the possibility of cruelty and injustice without end. I urge a return to the traditional or Retributive theory not solely, not even primarily, in the interests of society, but in the interests of the criminal.”

contd

 

[dudleysharp]

contd

“The reason is this. The Humanitarian theory removes from Punishment the concept of Desert. But the concept of Desert is the only connecting link between punishment and justice. It is only as deserved or undeserved that a sentence can be just or unjust.”

“My contention is that this (Humanitarian) doctrine, merciful though it appears, really means that each one of us, from the moment he breaks the law, is deprived of the rights of a human being.”

“Thus when we cease to consider what the criminal deserves and consider only what will cure him or deter others, we have tacitly removed him from the sphere of justice altogether . . .”.

" . . . in the process of giving him what he deserved you set an example to others. But take away desert and the whole morality of the punishment disappears. Why, in Heaven’s name, am I to be sacrificed to the good of society in this way?—unless, of course, I deserve it. "

“The punishment of an innocent, that is , an undeserving, man is wicked only if we grant the traditional view that righteous punishment means deserved punishment.”

“But to be punished, however severely, because we have deserved it, because we ‘ought to have known better’, is to be treated as a human person made in God’s image.”

"This is why I think it essential to oppose the Humanitarian theory of punishment, root and branch, wherever we encounter it. It carries on its front a semblance of mercy which is wholly false. "

" . . . the Humanitarian theory wants simply to abolish Justice and substitute Mercy for it. Mercy, detached from Justice, grows unmerciful. " The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment C.S. Lewis

1. C. S. Lewis: "Some enlightened people would like to banish all conceptions of retribution or desert from their theory of punishment and place its value wholly in the deterrence of others or the reform of the criminal himself. They do not see that by so doing they render all punishment unjust. What can be more immoral than to inflict suffering on me for the sake of deterring others if I do not deserve it? And if I do deserve it, you are admitting the claims of retribution. " “The Complete C.S. Lewis”, Signature Classics, The Problem of Pain, P407, Harper Collins, 2002
2. Why do parents punish their children for transgressions? I think it easy to understand sanction of a child, by a parent, is a reflection in love.

They want the child to understand the level of transgression, which is reflected in the degree of sanction (retribution), that the expected and hoped for result of that sanction is teaching, to encourage sorrow and apology that will be reflected in improved behavior, that such rehabilitation will result in a better person that will improve the total moral good (rehabilitation and redemption).

Few are so naive as to believe that any or all of these can or will take place in many or most circumstances with criminals within a criminal justice system. It does, however, recognizes that sanction/retribution is an essential requirement, which has a hoped for restorative and rehabilitative effect.

1. “Executing a murderer is the only way to adequately express our horror at the taking of an innocent life. Nothing else suffices…A murderer sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole can still laugh, learn and love, listen to music and read, form friendships, and do the thousand-and-one things (mundane and sublime) forever foreclosed to his victims.” Don Feder, Boston Herald Columnist. “McVeigh Makes the Case for Capital Punishment”. 21 May 2001
2. Never Forget Mercy for the Innocent
   “The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents”
   homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/05/the-death-penalty-more-protection-for-innocents.aspx

---

1. synopsis of “A Bible Study”, from Essays on the Death Penalty, T. Robert Ingram, ed., St. Thomas Press, Houston, 1963, 1992. Dr. Carey was a Professor of Bible and past President of George Fox College.
2. “Amerio on capital punishment “, Chapter XXVI, 187. The death penalty, from the book Iota Unum, May 25, 2007 ,
   www.domid.blogspot.com/2007/05/amerio-on-capital-punishment.html

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Had the Romans not had the “Death Penalty”, then there would be no Christianity at all.

If God himself, in the person of the Son, Jesus could accept the Death Penalty, then how can the Church decide that it is against God’s Law?

If the Death Penalty is immoral, then there was literally no willing acceptance of death by Jesus. Instead, this was just something forced upon him by an authority, and it had no theological meaning at all.

If in fact, the death of Jesus on the cross was in fact God himself accepting this horrible punishment for the sake of the forgiveness of sins by all mankind, then there can literally be no liturgical reasoning that could possibly calculate that the death penalty is either immoral or that it is never justified.

You can’t have it both ways. Either the State has the right to determine that death is an appropriate penalty for certain crimes, or the death of Jesus, who was executed by the State is utterly meaningless.

For the Church to deny the right of execution, is simply to deny the very reason why it exists in this world. If there had been no Capital Punishment in the days of Jesus, no Christian Church would exist today!