Death Penalty for Child Molesters?

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whatevergirl said:
The thing is, that if someone commits adultery (mortal sin) and someone else molests a kid (mortal sin) which is worse? We simply cannot judge. But, we have a right to feel somewhat safe in our neighborhoods. Again…I will say this again–our society doesn’t care about kids. (I’m talking judicial system) I say this because once abortion became legal…society started looking at kids as disposable. Yes, disposable. Expendable. And, as long as abortion is legal–we will continue to look at children’s rights as secondary to adults’ rights. Even a child molestor’s rights. A slippery slope that took its toll.

Reform needs to take place. Yes, there needs to be programs so rehabilitation can take place. I believe in helping criminals to better themselves…I am not a “lock em up throw away the key” type. But…I don’t believe that their ‘rights’ supercede the safety of children. Safety of people in general…should be paramount…let alone kids.

It’s hard to believe we are debating this issue? lol Oops…the topic is the death penalty for child molestors. Ok…sorry, we got off topic!! I do not believe in the death penalty in any sense…and not in this case.

Ok–off my soapbox.🙂
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Sadly you are OH SO! right about how society looks at our children they are disposable.😦
 
Nordar said:
Sadly you are OH SO! right about how society looks at our children they are disposable.😦
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actually I totally disagree - in some quarters there is a cult of childhood as evidenced in this thread, viewing children as perfect sinless beings and justifying any measures no matter how draconian and illogical in the name of “child protection” - including measures that actually worsen child protection
the bogeyman in the bushes is far less likely than the step-father, brother, uncle or family friend as a child abuser - FACT
unless you understand and accept that, you will never really tackle child abuse
and I have some personal experience which I am not willing to go into
 
Nordar said:
Nope I was being sarcastically tongue in cheek, You were being over emotional. Which by the way you were busy accusing me of being.:eek:
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no I wasn’t being overemotional - but you are being uncharitable
at least the comment was edited out
for someone so concerned about children you have not much concern for other matters like considering that just maybe some people have more direct experience of the issues than you might have, and that you might need to treat the area with some sensitivity???
it doesn’t behoove Christians to become vigilantes
 
Let’s please stick to the topic and remain charitable. A failure to do so will result in closure of the thread and possible conduct action being taken.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary
 
Nordar said:
Ofcourse no one is asking the public to invite sex offenders into their homes, what an absurd idea. No the point isn’t that some can be rehabilitated and some can’t. The point is that there are repeat offenders out there abusing and killing our children and should they or should they not get the death penalty. That’s the point. It does not have a thing to do with rehabilitation, if they have repeated their offense and abused and killed a child then it would seem that rehabilitation is moot!

Stealing is a far cry from child molestation and murder of a child during the crime of sexual offense. And the correlation between murderers not getting life and repeat sexual predators I am missing here.

Your next paragraphs are what really got to me nothing like blaming the parents and the children for the attacks. Children should NOT antagonize nor harrass sex offenders?.. Rather than egg sex offenders on, they should be avoiding them?..

Jessica Lunsford was asleep in her bed, when a repeat sexual predator went into her home took her out of that bed. He sexually assaulted her, raped her then buried her alive. How was she egging him on, she had never even met him? She is only one there are a long list of them who had never even met their killers or abusers.
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Nordar- You totally misunderstood what I was trying to say. I’m sorry if I gave you the impression on both accounts.
  1. I was reponding to the comment " well then let a sex offender live in your house and see what happens" (paraphrasing)
  2. My issue is not at all with repeat offenders, in fact I do believe that repeat offenders should get life without parole. My response was dealing with some posters stating that all sex offenders on their first offense should get a life sentence, which is where my comments came in that we do not put theives and murders (depending on the circumstances) in jail for their entire lives. they serve their sentences and are released. I was trying to illustrate that it is not warranted to give a life sentence to sex offenders in all cases. Some criminals can be rehabilitated and some cannot. The ones that repeat the crime (any crime) should be put in jail for life on the second offense. so we actually agree on that point.
  3. I am not at all “blaming” the parents for crimes against children. I was reacting to other posts which basically came across as if they felt they were powerless in the situation. In some instances there is nothing that can be done, but rather than sit and wait for it to happen, lets try to be proactive and educate on the dangers of talking to strangers, being aware of your surroundings, emphasising that children can talk to a parent or loved one if something does happen. For the most part, it is a good practice to do all of the things I suggested in regards to educating your children and yourself. Do you not agree that this is the case?
    Rather than doing nothing we should assume that everyone is a potential risk to our child. Does that mean we are not sociable or polite…No… does that mean that we do not warn our children against certain dangers…No… Does this mean that parents are to blame for what others do?..NO!
These practices (being aware and educated) along with more stringent monitoring of released offenders should help to reduce the chances of repeat offenders.
I understand that this will in no way elliminate the threat, however like with terrorism " if you see something, say something", Likewise “if you suspect something, say something”
should be a motto as well in regards to offenders.

I also believe that there should be (as I stated before) more stringent rehabilitation programs while an offender is incarcerated as well as stricter monitoring once they are release back into the general population. I believe that the state should have unlimeted access to their computers to do at will searches for inappropriate behavior.
I do not think that this is acceptable for the general population, however once you are convicted of a sex offense, I believe you have given up your right to your online privacy.

Again, I am sorry if you mistook what I was saying, I must not have worded it very well. I hope this clears it up for you and anyone else that misunderstood.
Rayne 100
 
Nordar said:
Jessica Lunsford was asleep in her bed, when a repeat sexual predator went into her home took her out of that bed. He sexually assaulted her, raped her then buried her alive. How was she egging him on, she had never even met him? She is only one there are a long list of them who had never even met their killers or abusers.
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Nordar- I understand where you might have misunderstood me in this paragraph…
I was speaking from personal observation of some children in my neighboorhood and I should have been more specific.

I am in no way saying that children are responsible for attacks on them. I was speaking more of the 12-17 year old age range that are around my neighboorhood. there is a man there that is currently awaiting trial for possession of child pornoghraphy. He has not been found guilty and has not been found innocent as of yet since there has not been a trial. Neverthe less, he has made a concerted effort to stay away from the public. He only goes outside basically to get to his basement or to do yardwork, however the children in the area, rather than avoiding him, taunt him and offer up their email and webpage information, ask him if he wants to see theuir private areas and throw rocks at the house if he turns the outside light on at night.
Parents should be appauled at this behavior. They should be teaching their children to stay away from that man at all costs not to intentionally antagonize him.

That was the point of that statement. I have personally witnessed this happening and if I knew exactly who the parents were I would march righ up to their houses and iform them of their childrens reckless behavior.
This is not a smart thing to do whether or not someone is truley guilty of the crime. Do you agree with that or not?
 
I didn’t read all the posts. I’m just responding to the original post.

As a victim of molestation as a child, I would never wish the death penalty on anyone. I believe life imprisonment with no chances of ever coming out is better punishment for a repeat offender. To me, putting someone to death does not erase the horrid memories I have of what he did to me and made me do to him. That would not heal me. The levels of forgiveness that have been gradually growing since telling my parents and loved ones and years of prayer and counseling are what have been healing me.

I believe forgiveness is necessary, but I do have to say that I believe repeat offenders cannot be trusted even if they claim to be rehabilitated. I would never want to risk any future child of mine to be alone with these kind of people. I would not want to risk them experiencing what I had to at the age of 5.
 
jack_hawkins said:
actually I totally disagree - in some quarters there is a cult of childhood as evidenced in this thread, viewing children as perfect sinless beings and justifying any measures no matter how draconian and illogical in the name of “child protection” - including measures that actually worsen child protection
the bogeyman in the bushes is far less likely than the step-father, brother, uncle or family friend as a child abuser - FACT
unless you understand and accept that, you will never really tackle child abuse
and I have some personal experience which I am not willing to go into
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the judicial system handles it the same pathetic way though…it doesn’t matter who the perpetrator is, if the victim is a child…the laws seem to be weaker than if the victim is an adult. (unless murder is involved)
 
whatevergirl said:
the judicial system handles it the same pathetic way though…it doesn’t matter who the perpetrator is, if the victim is a child…the laws seem to be weaker than if the victim is an adult. (unless murder is involved)
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I disagree with this statement. In NJ someone can murder another and be out of jail in five years, yet, for example, the gentleman in my neighboorhood is facing a minimum of 5-10 years for possession of kiddie porn. Keep in mind, there are no charges against him that he phisically did anything.

I guess it depends on the state you live in as to the laws in place.
 
You know, in the Military, rape is punishable by death.

Of course, this from a bunch who consider “Confinement on bread and water or diminished rations” to be an acceptable punishment for a modern military.

People do horrific things, we all know this. I’m sure there are many out there who would have enjoyed seeing some of the Enron execs get sent to the chair. Why?

Because we build up rage when someone does something wrong. We can imagine that it was our child that was molested or our pension squandered. And baby, we want revenge.

But that is all the death penalty really accomplishes. It is revenge, not protection. We live in an era where prisons are fortresses. Computerized with cameras everywhere, I’m not saying people don’t escape from prisons, but they are pretty rare, especially from facilities that are kept up.

So we are locking the offenders away where they have no hope of escape. I see lots of commentary about how they can be paroled just a few years later. Good point, maybe we should be hoping for stiffer sentences without parole as an option rather than offering the death penalty as the only option.

The fact of the matter is, our Church says that the death penalty is a no-no unless it is absolutely necessary to protect people. Sorry folks, that means Saddam should have faced a fate similar to Noriega rather than the shameless display we saw.

We need to start respecting life rather than destroying it at every turn. We call upon people to save the lives of the innocent babies but we demand the destruction of sinners. We have to respect life, all life, “from the womb to the tomb” as it were. Death penalty for child molesters is not a preventative measure. It won’t make your children safer. It will end a life. And if that is what makes you feel better, if you sleep better at night because a child molester, or any person is killed by the government, I’d advise seeking spiritual guidance.
 
My understanding is that within a civilized society with an established criminal justice system, there really is no reason for the death penalty. The Church seems to argue that the death penalty, as it exists in some states, is not necessary.

On the other hand, if you were in some broken down society where no criminal justice system worked (think Darfur???) then you might be justified to put a horrible killer to death if you could, in no other way, prevent him from continuing his actions.
 
I’m curious as to eactly how one comes to the silly conclusion that locking a person in a cage for decades is some how more “humane” than bringing their stay in this world to a quick and painless end?

Locking a person in prison for their rest of their days is taking their life all the same as if you had just put them to death. The difference is in locking a person in a prison you are subjecting them to decades of an existence of daily fear, gang rape, and all the other lovely realities of American prisons. In putting them to death their troubles are over in a few moments. As for the ability to correct imprisonment, it simply doesn’t exist. Sure you can let a person out of jail but you can give them the decades back anymore than you can bring someone back from the grave. After decades in a prison inmates are unable to deal with life on the outside, as such you’ve merely taken them from one bad situation into another equally bad situation.
 
I know I’m joining this one late but if we include the death penalty for child molestors would the priests who convicted the crimes also be included?
 
CCM08 said:
I’m curious as to eactly how one comes to the silly conclusion that locking a person in a cage for decades is some how more “humane” than bringing their stay in this world to a quick and painless end?
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Good question to ask the Holy Sea. I certainly don’t know the answer, but it is the position of the Vatican.
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goofyjim:
if we include the death penalty for child molestors would the priests who convicted the crimes also be included?
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A criminal is a criminal, matters not if they wear a special collar.
 
Personally I am against the death penalty but I assume stating that will draw my Catholicity into question again.
 
goofyjim said:
Personally I am against the death penalty but I assume stating that will draw my Catholicity into question again.
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I thought the Church’s stance was that in most societies, the death penalty was unneccesary, as facilities existed that could protect society from the criminal. It was only if there was no way to protect society from the criminal that the death penalty was acceptable. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that being anti-death penalty (particularly as a member of an Industrialized nation) is an anti-Catholic view.

Now, if you add a “and I think the Blessed Virgin Mary DIDN’T get Assumed into Heaven, but is, rather, living in Kalamazoo, Michigan with Elvis” to your statement about the death penalty, then THAT might call your Catholicity into question. 😉
 
Cari said:
I thought the Church’s stance was that in most societies, the death penalty was unneccesary, as facilities existed that could protect society from the criminal.
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That is the case. It would be the rare case where the Church would support putting someone to death. It is allowed, but the Church strongly favors all options of confinement first.
 
TimOliv said:
People do horrific things, we all know this. I’m sure there are many out there who would have enjoyed seeing some of the Enron execs get sent to the chair. Why?

Because we build up rage when someone does something wrong. We can imagine that it was our child that was molested or our pension squandered. And baby, we want revenge.

But that is all the death penalty really accomplishes. It is revenge, not protection.

So we are locking the offenders away where they have no hope of escape. I see lots of commentary about how they can be paroled just a few years later. Good point, maybe we should be hoping for stiffer sentences without parole as an option rather than offering the death penalty as the only option.

The fact of the matter is, our Church says that the death penalty is a no-no unless it is absolutely necessary to protect people. Sorry folks, that means Saddam should have faced a fate similar to Noriega rather than the shameless display we saw.

We need to start respecting life rather than destroying it at every turn. We call upon people to save the lives of the innocent babies but we demand the destruction of sinners. We have to respect life, all life, “from the womb to the tomb” as it were. Death penalty for child molesters is not a preventative measure. It won’t make your children safer. It will end a life. And if that is what makes you feel better, if you sleep better at night because a child molester, or any person is killed by the government, I’d advise seeking spiritual guidance.
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I totally agree with this.

It’s easy for many of us to just say, “Kill the bastard”, especially when the person is truly guilty of a heinous crime and especially if someone else is doing the execution. But how many of us would be willing to pull the trigger ourselves or inject the poison which will kill that bastard? I know I wouldn’t. I also know that it would haunt me for the rest of my life, wondering if what I did was right. I would constantly worried about my own soul. It’s bad enough if that happened while trying to defend yourself, and in that case, I would probably feel more at peace for doing that since it would be in self-defense. But when it’s planned and calculated, I just don’t believe my conscience would ever be at peace afterwards.
 
rayne100 said:
I disagree with this statement. In NJ someone can murder another and be out of jail in five years, yet, for example, the gentleman in my neighboorhood is facing a minimum of 5-10 years for possession of kiddie porn. Keep in mind, there are no charges against him that he phisically did anything.

I guess it depends on the state you live in as to the laws in place.
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getting out in 5 years for murder? Hmm…that doesn’t make sense. :confused:
 
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