Death penalty: For or against?

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Xenon777

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I am wrong to hold the Traditional Church position that the Death Penalty can actually be considered merciful, since it prevents one from descending further into Hell? I believe that people are inherently good, BUT, some people choose to commit the unforgivable sin. There are people who, I believe if God were to stand right in front of them they would try to . . . resist to the bitter end. Like Gong Runbo.
 
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StudentMI said:
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Xenon777:
some people choose to commit the unforgivable sin
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No sin is unforgivable.
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If it was one of my kids I would disagree. Vengance wouldn’t be just the Lord’s.
 
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I believe some people become CONVINCED that EVIL is GOOD and that they seldom, if ever saved, because they outright REFUSE to repent. I remember talking to someone on 4chan, they were a former Christian, who was drawn away from the faith, by being scandalized by those of Bad faith and became fascist ideologue. He said he knew God was who we was, but that He would GLADLY be thrown in Hell "rather than being with us Fa*****. When I tried to call him out on it, he said “slit your wrists subhuman haha”
 
You cannot have mercy without justice. Of the two brigands who were crucified next to Our Lord, one of them repented, and the other remained defiant to the end. (Luke 23: 40-43).
 
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know, but the unforgivable sin is when one calls good evil. the thing with this type of sin, is that the sinner is often SO OBSTINATE in their ways that they are never saved, because they OUTRIGHT REFUSE to be REPENT. If you don’t know who Gong Runbo is for example, he was a Chinese serial killer who liked to turn little boys… into rocking horses. This was back in 2008, and he was executed after a 2 day trial. His last words were “in the pursuit of pleasure a man must take risks”

When police entered his residence, they described it as Satan’s toyshop, and found the remains of failed “projects”
 
when they questioned his mother, she said that she had not seen him in years, but she remembered when he was a boy he had a beloved uncle who worked at a toy factory ( closed since 72) and he promised Runbo a rocking horse. But Runbo’s was like "NO! Rocking horses are tools of the imperial west!“Later on the beloved uncle was killed in a domestic dipute…in front of runbo’s very eyes”

China, man.
 
Dude, my advice, and I know it wasn’t asked for, stop reading about serial killers. The horrible side of humanity is prevalent enough that one doesn’t need to dwell on it.
 
I don’t anymore, I used to be big into that stuff, But I remember this one in particular, because the crime was so…brutal. No one knows how many he killed, because his victims were often the homeless, destitute, poor. The kind where no one would know if any of them went missing.
 
I agree. God gave me mercy, and am thankful for it. I believe in mercy and justice. God is merciful… but He is also just. He gives us, what we rightly deserve.
 
Xenon777 said:
I am wrong to hold the Traditional Church position that the Death Penalty can actually be considered merciful, since it prevents one from descending further into Hell? I believe that people are inherently good, BUT, some people choose to commit the unforgivable sin. There are people who, I believe if God were to stand right in front of them they would try to bite, rip and tear Him to pieces, and resist to the bitter end. Like Gong Runbo.
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Are you “wrong?” That is a complicated question. What can be said clearly is that you would be going against what the Church teaches.
 
the Church has held for the longest time, that the death penalty was a mercy, because it prevented souls from descending further into Hell.
 
Xenon777 said:
the Church has held for the longest time, that the death penalty was a mercy, because it prevented souls from descending further into Hell.
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I don’t think that is true. For a long period the Church allowed recourse to the death penalty under some circumstances, but the Church no longer does. I never heard it taught that it prevented people from going to Hell, and that makes no sense to me.
 
I have seen a lot of awful stuff online in my life ( you can thank the chans for that) I have even watched the Brenton Tarrant footage a few times. Some people people seem absolutely determined to be hell bound. Despite Jesus love for them, they seem to kick and bite and scream and tear.

and it is true, that the Church held the death penalty as a mercy for the unrepentant.
 
Johann_du_Toit said:
St Thomas Aquinas did teach that it has expiatory value, and some sins are so heinous that the only
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I am against the death penalty.

The legal professionals who fight to keep abortion “legal” are some of the same legal professionals who seek the death penalty (lawyer) or who hand down a sentence of “death” (judge).

I do not trust the lawyers and judges to determine who should live and who should die. After all, they have ruled that the unborn should die when they are not arriving at a convenient time for the “woman” (not the “mother”). And they have led many people, including Christians, into believing this is “truth.” Lawyers/judges should never have the right to condemn someone to death.

I don’t believe that they take God’s laws into account unless it will win a case for them, or give them good PR. I think many of them believe that THEY are God.

I also believe that rather than killing our violent criminals, we need to study them to learn more about what makes someone choose an evil path and commit crimes so that we can intervene and help people BEFORE they choose to commit crimes. Of course, this research would be best done by people who admit that there is “evil” and “good”, and I fear that many of our current liberal lawyers, psychologists, and research scientists don’t really believe this, but tend to be rather relativistic. But at least they might discover physiological reasons for criminality, and possibly be able to develop treatments for these conditions.

I am also against the death penalty because of the many many incidents where it was later determined that the criminal is innocent of the crime, and the true perpetrator is uncovered. The idea of the State taking the life of an innocent human being is dreadful, a curse on our nation. Lifelong incarceration is an appropriate sentence for someone who has committed a henious crime, and many murderers have received that sentence, e.g., Charles Manson (who actually didn’t commit the murders, but his acolytes did).

I am also against the death penalty because I think a large number of those who receive it are minorities or poor people or people with mental illnesses who cannot navigate the system and afford a lawyer who can “get them out of the death penalty.”

I do not believe the death penalty is a deterrent to crime. Many of the heinous crimes that take place are “crimes of passion,” done in a fit of anger, often drug or alcohol-induced. Many of these criminals have had wretched upbringings, with absent parents or abusive parents, a school system that abandoned them, and neighborhoods that left them with little choice but to join a street gang early in order to survive. Again, we need to study all of this and create strategies to stop people early in life from turning to crime.

Think about it–does fear of a speeding ticket stop you from speeding? Or do you occasionally run a stop sign in the early morning hours when no one else is out and about? If fear of punishment doesn’t stop those of us who are Christians, then why would fear of a death penalty stop a person who is already hardened in their heart?
 
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It does not prevent them from going to Hell. They are already making the choice themselves, to go to Hell, and it prevents them from descending FURTHER into the pit. Prevents the unrepentant from going from the first layer to the seventh layer etc. Some people refuse to repent EVEN if shown the glories of heaven and God they would STILL CHOOSE the pit
 
Xenon777 said:
I have seen a lot of awful stuff online in my life ( you can thank the chans for that) I have even watched the Brenton Tarrant footage a few times. Some people people seem absolutely determined to be hell bound. Despite Jesus love for them, they seem to kick and bite and scream and tear.

and it is true, that the Church held the death penalty as a mercy for the unrepentant.
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I would not put any weight on anything you think you learned from the “chans.”

I won’t argue with you about what you think the Church taught in the misty past, but what the Church teaches now is clear.
 
I believe in the Consistent Life Ethic, which opposes abortion, euthanasia and the death penalty.
(My reasoning is basically “I didn’t create Life, so I don’t have the authority to take it.”)

I’m using the phrase “death penalty” the way we typically understand it here—first a crime, then a trial, then death row, then execution.

The scenario where an out of control violent person in a crowded venue is shot by the cops in an act of protecting the immediate public is a separate case.
 
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Son, I have seen stuff like what happens if a man tries ending his life with a shotgun to the face…but fails. I have seen footage where a women was butchered by her husband over adultery, as she bleeds out. I have seen some of the darkest things one can imagine. I have see what evil can do to a soul. Some people are truly unforgiving, out of their own freewill
 
I’m against because the church had discerned a change, I believe the church does such things in consultation with the Holy Spirit.

I don’t believe the church was wrong in the past to stop people going to a worse level of hell and I agree that that was its stance on the death penalty. It is not anymore. The exact reason for current discernment I don’t know as yet so I act in faith and trust in God.
Perhaps and this is only a guess, mankind has now been widely catechised and has had ample opportunity to embrace God so now that if he chooses not to it may be that if he should sink to the lowest level of Hell, despite Gods abundant mercies and graces then it be deemed to be of his of his own choosing. You also never know what the mercy of God is capable of and when of where it will come in…
 
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