Death penalty: For or against?

[Xenon777]

To claim otherwise is to ignore the fallen nature of mankind. We will always need police, armies. There will still be mass genocide, DESPITE the calls of MANY to never forget. We will need courts to dish out justice. The bestial part of man is STILL there. And I don’t need the likes of heretics like Viktor Hugo or Marx, or other Pseudo-intellectuals to teach ME.

 

[Xenon777]

I personally prefer the Chair to milder forms of CP, like lethal injection, to . I also don’t mind the Gas Chamber or the firing squad.

 

[o_mlly]

The appropriateness of applying that penalty in each particular instance must also be determined, and that is the right and responsibility of the State. … That you stress changes in technology points inevitably to this being a prudential judgment.

Church teaching specifically constrains the state’s determination of “appropriateness” in applying the death penalty. These constraints may not be dismissed.

• The identity and guilt of the accused must be fully determined.
• It would not be possible otherwise to defend society.

The addition of “inadmissible” to the list of constraints awaits an encyclical or other papal document to explain the novelty, if any, in the use of that term to the teaching.

 

[Bluebright]

Yes you are right…we aren’t well catechised.

I should perhaps have said that we have the ability to be, meaning only that we and not all of us only the majority can read and write and have access to the internet and/or books so could theoretically do it ourselves with Gods grace which is freely given. In the past access to The Church teaching was sporadic at best,the internet does open up a lot of opportunities. Also this is not church teaching just one person’s opinion. So feel free to dismiss it. The real reason for the churchs change is unknown to me as yet as I’ve not read the Papal document. Rather argue with that than a simple souls musings. I am sorry to have distressed you and caused you to remember past upset.

 

[Ender]

Church teaching specifically constrains the state’s determination of “appropriateness” in applying the death penalty. These constraints may not be dismissed.

• The identity and guilt of the accused must be fully determined.
• It would not be possible otherwise to defend society.

That society be defended cannot be a requirement inasmuch as protection is only a secondary objective of punishment, and it is the primary objective that must be satisfied, not the secondary ones.

 

[puer.dei]

It is surely reasonable to bring up practical objections to the use of capital punishment, but those objections are very different than raising moral objections. These are very different concerns. I think the former are reasonable, but the latter are not.

Moral objections are not reasonable?

 

[do_justly_love_mercy]

I personally prefer the Chair to milder forms of CP, like lethal injection, to . I also don’t mind the Gas Chamber or the firing squad.

So you think it’s not enough that we kill people, we should kill them more violently? For what it’s worth, the lethal injection is actually not a very pleasant way to die. It can often be a long and painful way of dying. The gas chamber is also pretty horrible. Shooting or long-drop hanging are actually very quick and painless in most cases. I don’t agree with executing people anyway, but, even if you do believe in the death penalty, it seems unnecessarily cruel to have a preference for the more horrible ways of doing it, such as the electric chair.

 

[Xenon777]

Oh no problem. I believe what the traditionalists say, which is that STUDY according to your state in life. Knowledge is power. We are in a moment in history where we can no longer be quiet. Me MUST learn as much as possible to respond to an ever more secular, and anti theist world. We MUST speak up or it will get messy.

 

[o_mlly]

That society be defended cannot be a requirement inasmuch as protection is only a secondary objective of punishment, and it is the primary objective that must be satisfied, not the secondary ones.

The issue is: What does the Church teach?

Since this issue can only be resolved by an appeal to authority, and the ultimate authority Catholics respect is the Magisterium, I cite Evangelium Vitae p56:

“If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority must limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person”

 

[Xenon777]

I did not say that, I simply don’t really care how I die.

I had a old school mate back in school named Austin. We became estranged after a fight in middle school. The next time I heard his name my brother was playing for funeral. My brother plays taps for vets. He had gotten killed by a drunk driver down in Texas, He was a month from getting married. I have regrets over not reconciling with him And I think of my great uncles Carl and Raymond. They were in the same nursing home, but were at odds. They woulds stare at each other in anger. When Carl died, Raymond was despondent. He spent his last days pondering over what he should have done. As I was learning the faith I watched a sermon given by some Traditionalist. He told a story of a great saint (can’t remember his name who was playing billiards with 3 companions. He asked them “If you had only 1 hour left to live, what would you do?” The first companion said. “I will tell my wife how much I love her” “too late!” said the saint. The second companion said " I will tell my family how much they mean to me" “too late!” The saint said. The third companion said “I will forgive all who wronged me”
“Too late!” the saint again. Annoyed, his companions said " what would YOU do?"

“Play Billiards” replied the saint

It taught me that one should not care much about how they die, when they die, or the like. What REALLY MATTERS is that by the time you have died. MAKE SURE ALL your affairs are in order. Has someone wronged you, but you have not forgiven them? Do so, less they be taken away. Do your children know they how much they mean to you, and how much you love them? Tell them. Have you been away from a lonely friend or relative for too long? Reconnect, and tell them you care.

I used to afraid of dying ever since I was a kid. But ever since I found God, I no longer do. I could die tomorrow in a car crash, or die of cancer 50 years from now. I am simply glad, I found Him after being away from to long. Because you never know necessarily when it is your time.

 

[Xenon777]

if bloodless means are suffecient

IF. Such a funny little word. “If I had all the power in the world I would end poverty”

“If I could only have my cake and eat it”

“If I were rich I would buy all the toys I want”

But If’s are not absolute.

“IF… you find him , tell Thomas I need him to pick up the mail, before I get home”
“IF… we are superior… we can overpower thew enemy stronghold”
“If… he were dead, we can stake claim to all his stuff”