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Victorious
Guest
How do you know they don’t get a chance to repent? Especially in an age when it takes a guy on death row 20 or 30 years to exhaust his appeals?
On the subject of destroying God and Jesus’ creations: do you eat?
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On the subject of destroying God and Jesus’ creations: do you eat?
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
Don’t forget there’s women on death row too. Anyhoo, if u feel that way, why not give all the death row priests their walking papers so that those killers never get a chance to repent, that they head striaght to hell, thogh not before they’re given the ritual of Anathema before the state killers rub them out?
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estesbob
Guest
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mommyof4
Guest
Gottcha!
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BryPGuy89
Guest
Well then how do you live honestly? Can’t eat, drink, live in a shelter other than a natural cave, etc… Just to exist we destroy God’s creations…
I know you probably meant human beings, not all creation, just the “any” made me laugh a little. No offense intended.
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FightingFat
Guest
Keep thinking that way and you wont go far wrong IMO!
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
YUP!!
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detrockcity3
Guest
Nope.
“Since the agent of authority is but a sword in the hand, and is not responsible for the killing, it is in no way contrary to the commandment, “Thou shalt not kill” to wage war at God’s bidding, or for the representatives of the State’s authority to put criminals to death, according to law or the rule of rational justice.” - St. Augustine
Self-defense, just war, and capital punishment are all allowed when necessary, the qualifications for necessity being consistently defined by Popes and in Catechisms, etc. It has never been the teaching of the Church that “all killing [is] wrong and sinful…at ABSOLUTELY ALL circumstances.” The pacifism you preach is simply rejected.
(For the record, I am not a member or a representative of the fat cat secular state.)
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
Now we HAVE got a problem. Anyhow, we don’t need no stinkin’ secular Herodesque authority, as it denies them a chance to repent, increases hell’s population and makes Satan’s army grow for earth’s last great war. Worse still, it defiles the souls of all state killers, preventing them from EVER entering the kindom, unless they repent. If I was a priest (which I ain’t), I’d NEVER attend ANY death sessions, so much, the better. Death to the death penalty.
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detrockcity3
Guest
This is what happens when people forget about punishment due.
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
And me and my friends say two wrongs never make a right. As such, I give you:
A Prayer to Abolish the Death Penalty
God of Compassion,
You let your rain fall on the just and the unjust.
Expand and deepen our hearts, minds and souls
so that we may love as You love,
even those among us
who have caused the greatest pain by taking life.
For there is in the land a great cry for vengeance
as we fill up death rows and kill the killers
in the name of justice, in the name of peace.
Jesus, our brother,
you suffered death at the hand of the state
but you did not let hatred overcome you.
Help us to reach out to victims of violence
so that our enduing love may help them heal.
Holy Spirit of God,
You strengthen us in the battle for justice.
Help us to work tirelessly
for the abolition of state-sanctioned death
and to renew the world in its very heart, mind
and soul, so that violence will be no more.
Amen.
–Sister Helen Prejean, C.S.J.
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FightingFat
Guest
So our stance on war has not altered or developed since the 4th century? Is that what you are saying?
It’s like VII never happened!
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thistle
Guest
The Church does NOT support the death penalty. It rather accepts that in some RARE instances it might be necessary. That is not supporting it. In fact the Church rejoices when a country abolishes the death penalty just as it did when the Philippines abolished it earlier this year.
If you read the CCC you will see that the Church states that the rare instances of applying the death penaly should almost be non-existent.
**CCC 2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."
If you read the CCC you will see that the Church states that the rare instances of applying the death penaly should almost be non-existent.
**CCC 2267 **Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."
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manualman
Guest
I oppose the death penalty. But I am alarmed when I see people embrace false reasoning for it. The death penalty is wrong today because we quite simply have other reasonably reliable ways to protect society from sociopathic killers.
But the church is very clear in its teaching that the death penalty is NOT intrinsically evil. In other words, it is NOT the same as abortion or murder of a middle age woman, or the killing of Teri Schiavo. Why? Because the death penalty isn’t the murder of an innocent, it is the execution of a dangerous criminal who has demonstrated that he is a threat to the lives of any and all around him.
One interesting factoid objectors seem to miss is the HIGHER repentence rate of those on death row versus those sentenced to life without parole. Wonder why? I suspect it is because the man on death row knows his judgement approaches. He faces it. The lifer lives each day thinking he has a lot more, too many more in fact. Suddenly, it ends one day via a shank in the shower or a heart attack in the cell. Ask around at REAL prison ministries, not DP protest groups. Prison ministers that actually visit inmates of all stripes.
All that said, there is no good reason for the DP anymore. It is applied in a racist manner, it costs more than life, it can’t be revoked when new evidence comes up, and it has a MAJOR negative impact on the soul of the man who pulls the switch.
Go ahead, oppose the death penalty. But do it with the mind of the church, not that of the secular humanists. Death is NOT the worst of all fates, nor is killing the worst of all crimes. Form your conscience to Christ. Don’t substitute an alien ideology. And most of all, dont’ mistakenly believe that it has primary priority in the evils of this world to be corrected. Application of the DP via incorrect prudential judgement is NOT murder. Abortion, euthanasia and stem cell research IS murder. Make your public advocacy decisions accordingly.
But the church is very clear in its teaching that the death penalty is NOT intrinsically evil. In other words, it is NOT the same as abortion or murder of a middle age woman, or the killing of Teri Schiavo. Why? Because the death penalty isn’t the murder of an innocent, it is the execution of a dangerous criminal who has demonstrated that he is a threat to the lives of any and all around him.
One interesting factoid objectors seem to miss is the HIGHER repentence rate of those on death row versus those sentenced to life without parole. Wonder why? I suspect it is because the man on death row knows his judgement approaches. He faces it. The lifer lives each day thinking he has a lot more, too many more in fact. Suddenly, it ends one day via a shank in the shower or a heart attack in the cell. Ask around at REAL prison ministries, not DP protest groups. Prison ministers that actually visit inmates of all stripes.
All that said, there is no good reason for the DP anymore. It is applied in a racist manner, it costs more than life, it can’t be revoked when new evidence comes up, and it has a MAJOR negative impact on the soul of the man who pulls the switch.
Go ahead, oppose the death penalty. But do it with the mind of the church, not that of the secular humanists. Death is NOT the worst of all fates, nor is killing the worst of all crimes. Form your conscience to Christ. Don’t substitute an alien ideology. And most of all, dont’ mistakenly believe that it has primary priority in the evils of this world to be corrected. Application of the DP via incorrect prudential judgement is NOT murder. Abortion, euthanasia and stem cell research IS murder. Make your public advocacy decisions accordingly.
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
Don’t forget women CAN be dangerous criminals too. If we wanna get rid of such, exile them to the south pole and allow them to fend for themselves. Those fat cat state killers, al they love to do is play God and his son, and lose their souls to the devil. If you out there want tohse killers to truly feel the pain, dney them even last rites and subject them to the ritual of Anathema:
In passing this sentence, the pontiff is vested in amice, stole,
and a violet cope, wearing his mitre, and assisted by twelve
priests clad in their surplices and holding lighted candles. He
takes his seat in front of the altar or in some other suitable place,
amid pronounces the formula of anathema which ends with these words:
“Wherefore in the name of God the All-powerful, Father, Son, and Holy
Ghost, of the Blessed Peter, Prince of the Apostles, and of all the saints,
in virtue of the power which has been given us of binding and loosing in
Heaven and on earth, we deprive N-- him/herself and all his/her accomplices
and all his/her abettors of the Communion of the Body and Blood of Our
Lord, we separate him/her from the world of all Christians, we exclude him/her
from the bosom of our Holy Mother, the Church in Heaven and on earth,
we declare him/her excommunicated and anathematized as one of the biggest
failures for eternity, and we judge him/her condemned to eternal fire with Satan
and his demons and all the reprobate, so long as he/she will not burst the fetters
of the demon, do penance and satisfy the Church; we deliver him/her to Satan to
mortify his/her body, that his/her soul may be obliterated on the day of judgment.”
He/she who dares to despise our decision, let him/her be stricken with anathema
maranatha, i.e. may he/she be da**ed with pure hatred and revenge at the coming of
the Lord, may he/she have his/her place with Judas Iscariot, he/she and his/her companions.
Times change. Even in the bible there was change. So will it be in the church’s viewpoint on the evil DP much. We might as well track down every state fat cat killer and drag them all to the priests and make them repent for playing God and his son, make them quit thier jobs and turn them into priests and nuns, depending on the gender, after all, women can also be evil state killers. So again, death to the DP–every single life in God’s and Jesus’ ALONE to deal with, NOT some earthly fat cat state killer, looking for a medal, a big fat cat paycheck, and fame. There no proof of a repentance rate in evil death row. Can you prove it? Remember Hugo Stapp?
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Genesis315
Guest
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apricot_yogurt
Guest
What indeed is to stop a prisoner on death row-many for years and years killing another prisoner or guard? He knows he will get the death penalty.
I think it is wrong to kill someone to show that killing is wrong.
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Neo_Canaan
Guest
RIGHT SAID!! And women too can also get the evil DP. Let’s not forget women Death to the DP.
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quasimodo
Guest
A prisoner in the general population with no hope of getting out has no deterent and a lot of opportunity to kill. Death rows are run very differently. Very few death row inmates are given the opportunity to kill someone.
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quasimodo
Guest
equal crime
equal consequences
Given that we have the death penalty, what is your point?
I expect the numbers favor women here. I have no proof - just a suspicion
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