Death Penalty

[Blanka]

ATeNumquam:

Ditto from one who lives in New Zealand. We did away with it in the 1950s, I think.
I shouldn’t criticise another country’s policies, I suppose, but it astounds me that a civilised country like the USA (or some States, I should say) still has capital punishment.

I’m not surprised you are astounded. I wonder just how civilized we really are when we use the death penalty as our means of revenge. And that is exactly what it is.

Before I was Catholic, I didn’t see anything wrong with the death penalty. And I think the reason is because it is so easy to be self righteous and see ourselves as the “good guys” and the criminal as the “bad guy” whom we feel empowered to dispense with because he offends us. We see ourselves as more deserving of God’s favors and are quick to condemn someone who commits a “terrible” crime. We are also a very vengeful society. Just look at the movies where the characters exact revenge on one another as they are portrayed as heroes. Some people quote Old Testament bible verses to justify killing a criminal. Sure, there were a lot of OT laws but we do not follow many of them today because Christ came to fulfill the law and we now follow the teachings of Christ. Otherwise, there would still be acceptable “bills” of divorce. dietary laws, killing people caught in adultery, etc. I have also heard people on this site say that a criminal can be forgiven but must still receive his punishment (referring to the death penalty). When Jesus was presented with the adulterous woman, the people waited to see what he would do. He forgave the woman but he DIDN’T say “I forgive you but I still sentence you to death by stoning”. He forgave the woman and asked that whoever was without sin cast the first stone. Of course, no one cast a stone and the woman was allowed to leave forgiven. I am not saying to allow murderers to walk away as free men without serving a sentence. But I think many people do not realize that prison is a sentence and the loss of freedom is a greater punishment than one may realize. I’m sure that Dismas2004 (one of the posters in this thread) can attest to the fact that the loss of freedom is very painful for the human person.
I also have to wonder about those who believe in the death penalty… if it is appropriate punishment for murderers, then should we kill women who have had abortions (and essentially killed their own child)? Should we kill doctors who perform abortions?
We can never truly know what God has planned for someone’s life. People use free choice to do bad things but God is always trying to reconcile the person to Himself. We cannot know God’s timing. Therefore, how can we presume to take God’s role in determining the death of someone? Woe to the executioner who will have to answer before God because he takes life believing himself to be justified. Most criminals know they have sinned. As someone else pointed out, “there but for the grace of God go I.” The criminal is human like us. Are there any us who have not committed a sin?

Secondly, I believe that our criminal justice system needs reform. It is currently all about punishment and not about rehabilitation. I remember years ago reading about a professor who visited men’s and women’s prisons in another (civilized) country. The focus at these prisons was on rehabilitation and the big goal was in helping the prisoners strive to want to become good citizens (and productive members of society) again. The recidivism rate was a lot lower than our country because as people left those prisons, they really wanted to do better and become part of society again. They were also welcomed back into society. Obviously the focus in the US prisons (other than those who do offer faith based programs) is to make the prisoner feel he is NOT a part of society and to emphasize how bad he is which results in him having a much harder time reintegrating into society when he is released. It would be good that if even for those serving life sentences, there could be a focus on what they can do while in prison that could help society in a positive way. All men want a purpose in life. It seems as Christians that we would want to help others replace the evil in their lives with good. :bowdown2:

 

[pnewton]

Blanka:

I’m not surprised you are astounded. I wonder just how civilized we really are when we use the death penalty as our means of revenge. And that is exactly what it is.

If you have read much of what is posted you would know that revenge is not the motive behind most of the support for the death penalty.

 

[Blanka]

pnewton:

If you have read much of what is posted you would know that revenge is not the motive behind most of the support for the death penalty.

I believe that it is revenge disguised as “justice”. It’s the old “eye for an eye” rationale. If someone hurts us, we want to hurt them. I’m afraid we get so obsessed with how “justice should be served” that we stop thinking about forgiveness and mercy. How many times do we hear someone say “they should pay for their crime”? We love to call it “justice” but real justice looks at what is really fair and just in a situation. I don’t believe that playing God and choosing to execute someone is justice. God did say that “vengeance is mine.”
Our priest frequently mentions how in Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice the character is so consumed with wanting his “pound of flesh” that he has lost any sense of real justice and mercy.

 

[pnewton]

Blanka:

I believe that it is revenge disguised as “justice”.

What is your basis for this “belief?” I follow the church’s teaching that it is only needed as necessary for the protection of socitey, not revenge.

 

[Blanka]

pnewton:

What is your basis for this “belief?” I follow the church’s teaching that it is only needed as necessary for the protection of socitey, not revenge.

My “belief” is based on exactly what you just stated. If killing someone is only needed as a last resort for the protection of society, we should have no need of the death penalty in this country. If we send a murderer to prison where he is no longer a threat to society, then why would we need to take him from his cell and kill him on a designated execution date? To satisfy the victim’s family so they can watch him die while they sit in the viewing room? That sounds like revenge to me. Or so victim’s rights groups can cheer outside the prison when he is killed? Sounds like revenge to me. My husband, who is also a Catholic convert, says it only seems logical that if one chooses to be Catholic that one would not be pro-death but would try to practice the forgiveness and mercy of Christ.

I would like to quote part of two articles by Archbishop Charles J. Chaput:

*From: The True Road To Justice
But as Jesus showed again and again by His words and in His actions, the only true road to justice passes through mercy. Justice cannot be served by more violence. “Frying the killer” may sound funny to some, righteous to others. But make no mistake: Capital punishment is just another drug we take to ease other, much deeper anxieties about the direction of our culture. Executions may take away some of the symptoms for a time (symptoms who have names and their own stories before God), but the underlying illness – today’s contempt for human life – remains and grows worse.

*And from: Killing the Killer Is Not The Solution
As we prayerfully recall the execution of Jesus Christ, I urge all people to reflect on the unintended consequences of the death penalty and to work for its repeal nationwide. A culture ultimately defines its moral character by the value it places on each human life, particularly those lives which seem burdensome, inconsequential or unworthy. Violent criminals present an especially difficult moral challenge for us, because their own cruelty has forced them to the margins of society. Recognizing a criminal’s humanity is difficult when our hearts are clouded by anger and pain. Still, killing the killer is not the answer. The death penalty may provide us with a momentary sense of vengeance, but it won’t bring back the lives of innocent victims. And in our quest to “send a message” to would–be criminals, we also send a disastrous signal to our children. We teach them that the problem of violence can be solved by more violence. The agony a family suffers when a loved one is murdered cannot be expressed in words, and as a community, we have a responsibility to punish violent criminals. But we focus so much on what murderers seem to deserve, we do not fully consider what state-sanctioned killing does to the living. It can only diminish the value we place on all human life. Finally, I ask you to remember in a special way those people whose daily cross includes the tragedy of a loved one lost to violence. May God grant them the grace, inner peace and strength of the crucified Jesus, who said, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.” (Luke 23:34)

 

[pnewton]

Blanka:

…we should have no need of the death penalty in this country. If we send a murderer to prison where he is no longer a threat to society, …

This quickly stated assumption is where much of the discussion here has been focused. It is the only valid reason I can still see for the death penalty and should not assume to be a given. Our prisons are loaded with those that still present a significant dange to society, even while living behind bars, do to contacts in the outside wolrd.

Additionally, we should not marginalize prisoners to the point that we think they are no longer part of our society and desrving of protection from each other. Surely everyone understands that some murderers continue to take life behind bars. Should this be permitted, or do even inmates have the right for us to protect?

Finally, do the lives of those who guard these prisoner matter nothing? They to deserve protection from the most violent of offenders.

If you have noticed, I am switching off the concept of the death penalty as revenge. Not only is it a poor argument, it is also a red herring, as that is not for the prudential judgement that needs to applied, to determine how best to protect society. (all society not just my neighborhood)

 

[Ignatius]

I think I might be of a minority opinion here, but we’ll see…
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Here is a great article which explains why The Church is Not opposed to Capital Punishment. It cites the universal and constant Church teaching including many Church Leaders through time up into our modern times: harvestingthefruit.com/deathpenalty/

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

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