Death sentence for Nag Hammadi murderer -- Your reactions?

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From BBC News:

"Egypt has sentenced a man to death for killing six Coptic Christians and a Muslim policeman in January 2010.

Mohamed Ahmed Hussein was found guilty of shooting the group outside a midnight Mass for Coptic Christmas in Naga Hamady, southern Egypt."

(link to full story on BBC website)

As a Christian, I am saddened that the murderous act that already took the lives of seven innocent people in January 2010 will now take an eighth in the form of the life of the shooter. However, I also know that God’s mercy does not preclude His justice, so I must believe that there is some greater purpose here, and I pray that the God of infinite compassion have mercy on Mr. Hussein’s tortured soul.

I am at the same time, if not exactly optimistic, rather less-than-usually discouraged that such a verdict was reached at all. Is this “justice” for the martyrs of Nag Hammadi? That’s not really for me to say. But it does show a marked difference from previous responses to the cold blooded murder of Copts in the past, such as the massacre of 21 Copts by a Muslim mob in el-Kosheh in 2000 for which nobody was convicted. I do not think that this is a victory or justice for Copts specifically (keep in mind that a Muslim was accidentally murdered in both cases, and that in the el-Kosheh massacre this was the only murder for which anyone faced any punishment), but perhaps in a wider sense we may see an assertion of the rule of law over the majority for once (not just over the minority, like when the Copts are hauled off to jail whenever there is any dispute). For that, I thank God greatly, and I pray and hope to see more of that in the future.

Of course, the other side of this, alluded to in the article by Mr. Hussein’s defense attorney, is that the verdict was likely influenced by the recent Alexandria bombing (presumably making it an unfair, politicized verdict). So I think the real test will be to see how the investigation into that incident plays out. This would of course assume that the Islamists could even go a year without shaming their religion with more bad publicity in the form of terrorism and attempted murders. I have already heard reports that just yesterday Anba Mattaios of Der El-Suriyan monastery narrowly escaped a car bomb on a trip to Cairo, the device in question matching in form one that had been placed in a church in El Minia meant to disrupt Christmas services. Luckily, in both cases no one was hurt (though Anba Mattaios did lose his car, I doubt he cares). It is a strange situation when both sides can claim injustice over the same events that are only directed at one side. “I can’t get a fair trial because people in my ideological circles can’t stop trying to murder others for long enough to stop poisoning public opinion against murder!” :rolleyes::confused:
 
Though we should not rejoice in the taking of life, no matter the sins the individual has committed, we must respect the right of the Egyptian government to deliver the punishment they see fit as prescribed by their law. He will be judged by the Lord and the judgement of the Lord is always just. I pray for his soul.
 
Though we should not rejoice in the taking of life, no matter the sins the individual has committed, we must respect the right of the Egyptian government to deliver the punishment they see fit as prescribed by their law. He will be judged by the Lord and the judgement of the Lord is always just. I pray for his soul.
Amen.

:cool:
 
From BBC News:

"Egypt has sentenced a man to death for killing six Coptic Christians and a Muslim policeman in January 2010.

Mohamed Ahmed Hussein was found guilty of shooting the group outside a midnight Mass for Coptic Christmas in Naga Hamady, southern Egypt."

(link to full story on BBC website)

As a Christian, I am saddened that the murderous act that already took the lives of seven innocent people in January 2010 will now take an eighth in the form of the life of the shooter. However, I also know that God’s mercy does not preclude His justice, so I must believe that there is some greater purpose here, and I pray that the God of infinite compassion have mercy on Mr. Hussein’s tortured soul.

I am at the same time, if not exactly optimistic, rather less-than-usually discouraged that such a verdict was reached at all. Is this “justice” for the martyrs of Nag Hammadi? That’s not really for me to say. But it does show a marked difference from previous responses to the cold blooded murder of Copts in the past, such as the massacre of 21 Copts by a Muslim mob in el-Kosheh in 2000 for which nobody was convicted. I do not think that this is a victory or justice for Copts specifically (keep in mind that a Muslim was accidentally murdered in both cases, and that in the el-Kosheh massacre this was the only murder for which anyone faced any punishment), but perhaps in a wider sense we may see an assertion of the rule of law over the majority for once (not just over the minority, like when the Copts are hauled off to jail whenever there is any dispute). For that, I thank God greatly, and I pray and hope to see more of that in the future.

Of course, the other side of this, alluded to in the article by Mr. Hussein’s defense attorney, is that the verdict was likely influenced by the recent Alexandria bombing (presumably making it an unfair, politicized verdict). So I think the real test will be to see how the investigation into that incident plays out. This would of course assume that the Islamists could even go a year without shaming their religion with more bad publicity in the form of terrorism and attempted murders. I have already heard reports that just yesterday Anba Mattaios of Der El-Suriyan monastery narrowly escaped a car bomb on a trip to Cairo, the device in question matching in form one that had been placed in a church in El Minia meant to disrupt Christmas services. Luckily, in both cases no one was hurt (though Anba Mattaios did lose his car, I doubt he cares). It is a strange situation when both sides can claim injustice over the same events that are only directed at one side. “I can’t get a fair trial because people in my ideological circles can’t stop trying to murder others for long enough to stop poisoning public opinion against murder!” :rolleyes::confused:
believe me when i tell you. this man is not a tortured soul. they really do enjoy killing Christians and westerners over here. cant make a judgement on his eternal state, but executing murderers who kill in cold blood, is a good thing. no qualms here.
 
Don’t quite agree on the death sentence as it does not alter what had happened. A vicous crime had been committed, perjaps there are other forms of punishment that can equally serve the same purpose. Personally I think an effective rehabilitation would be best during the many years behind bar and maybe let him go off after the sentence is served.

May God bless him.
 
While I am against the death penalty in all situations, and am saddened that another must die because of these crimes, whether or not they had a hand in them, it is hopeful that Egypt is treating him like a criminal and not feigning incompetence.

With that said this does seem to have happened quite quickly. Was it actually an open and shut case or was the individual denied a fair trial?

In response to what Benedict said, I’ve had friends serve over there tell me the same thing - they don’t value human life over there. I don’t think encouraging them to kill more is going to help them get out of that though.
 
A good question, Nine_Two, and one I really wish I had an answer to. His co-conspirators are said to have their verdicts announced next month, which to me points to some sort of show trial, or at least not complete transparency.

Benedict: What you have written is unfortunately right in line with what my Christian friends from the Middle East have told me. When I used the term “tortured soul”, it was not because I think that this man actually feels tortured. I don’t think any unrepentant sinner feels particularly bad about their sins. But it doesn’t mean that their soul is not tortured; they are just in denial about the effect that their sin has on their soul, same as any unrepentant sinner. I hope that God wakes this man up before it is too late for him.
 
It is saddening Mohamed Ahmed Hussein is sentenced to death as I do not believe in the death penalty. What’s even worse is reading from the article that, “Anba Kirolos, the Coptic bishop of Naga Hammady, said his congregation were “satisfied” with the ruling”.

Putting someone to death does not solve problems – it just removes the person from the public eye and gives a false sense of a fleeting, temporary peace. I mean, the execution of Mohamed Ahmed Hussein will not stop the persecution of Coptic Christians until the government and also Muslims in Egypt change their attitudes and discrimination laws (ex: Copts need licenses to build Churches).

Perhaps, the recent Tunisian revolution will give courage to the people of Egypt who desire and want change (this is my hope).

May God have mercy on Mohamed Ahmed Hussein, the Muslims and Copts of Egypt.

Further reading:

Al Jazeera: To the tyrants of the Arab world…

Al-Masry Al-Youm: TIMELINE: Court cases related to sectarian violence in Egypt
 
In response to what Benedict said, I’ve had friends serve over there tell me the same thing - they don’t value human life over there. I don’t think encouraging them to kill more is going to help them get out of that though.
This is what I am thinking. When human lives are taken very lightly and people seem to be quite willing to give up or take away lives, a more important step to stop it would be perhaps to instil in them its value. It will not be an easy task; the positive is that there are many Muslims who do not share the same thinking as the murderer.

The manner in the speedy outcome of the trial does cause some doubt about its intergrity and maybe in the whole incident itself. Was the government or its agents culpable? - it’s difficult to ascertain.
 
While the death penalty is inherently unsound, it’s the mandated penalty in the laws of Egypt, and it’s a major victory for the rights of the Copts that the Egyptian criminal courts have in fact issued a death penalty for killing Christians.

Shockingly, I’ve been led to believe that jury nullification based in anti-coptic sentiment has been a feature of the Egyptian criminal courts. By a couple of Egyptian ex-patriot Copts, and by a Muslim who was a PLO member of my former acquaintance as well.

So, it’s progress. Big progress. Sad, in that he’ll have very little chance to repent. But still, it’s a sign that justice for the Copts is a possibility.

Moreover, it means that it’s highly likely another Muslim will execute him for crimes against “dhimmi”… a punishment which is symbolically saying that he’s unfit to be considered a muslim… Koranic justice doesn’t execute muslims for crimes against dhimmi.
 
A good question, Nine_Two, and one I really wish I had an answer to. His co-conspirators are said to have their verdicts announced next month, which to me points to some sort of show trial, or at least not complete transparency.

Benedict: What you have written is unfortunately right in line with what my Christian friends from the Middle East have told me. When I used the term “tortured soul”, it was not because I think that this man actually feels tortured. I don’t think any unrepentant sinner feels particularly bad about their sins. But it doesn’t mean that their soul is not tortured; they are just in denial about the effect that their sin has on their soul, same as any unrepentant sinner. I hope that God wakes this man up before it is too late for him.
i would agree with you on this dzeremi. i do not wish for anyone to go to hell. i dont think any True Christian would. however, the temporal punishment handed down by the egyptian court is just. in my area, it is open season on our Catholic brothers and sisters. they are dying. the majority of Muslims do want to live in peace. but i have no problems taking on the extremist among them. just as i would have had no problems taking on the Orthodox who were slaughtering Muslims in the former yugoslavia not too long ago. i guess my perspective as a soldier makes me a little different. i believe God is merciful, but i also believe he is Just. i am thankful for the sentence handed down, because it means this man will not kill innocents again. if i am put into a postion to defend a brother or sister Catholic over here, i will not have a problem doing so. weather this means detaining, or taking their life. it would be nice if everyone could live in peace. but sadly, our enemies disagree. if it were not for the Catholic Church and the wars that were fought in times past, we would all have either died or converted at the sword by now. Peace to you and yours. and pray for our persecuted brothers and sisters in the middle east, and for the Sabiens. they are the spiritual descendants of John the baptist, and their numbers are very small. :signofcross:
 
I read the news recently, the Nag Hammadi accomplices have been acquitted. Excerpt via Christian Today:
Six Christians were killed in January 2010 as they left their church in Nag Hammadi after celebrating Christmas Eve mass. The church’s Muslim security guard was also killed in the attack.
In a hearing on Monday, a state security court in Qena upheld the death sentence handed to chief suspect Mohamed Ahmed Hussein last month but decided to acquit the suspected accomplices.
In a report by the Assyrian International News Agency, the Coptic Orthodox Bishop of Nag Hammadi, Bishop Cyril, condemned the verdict.
He said it had brought pain to the victims’ families, who had expected lengthy prison sentences to be imposed on the two accused.
Read more: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/anger.over.courts.decision.to.acquit.suspects.in.coptic.killing.case/27566.htm

With the recent Egypt revolution, this isn’t a good way to start the reconciliation of peace with Egypt’s long persecution of its Christian minority.
 
Oh those are Gods holy people, someones gonna suffer, someone is gonna feel some pain.

I find no comfort in hearing of others death. But you reap what you sow in this world.
 
While I am against the death penalty in all situations, and am saddened that another must die because of these crimes, whether or not they had a hand in them, it is hopeful that Egypt is treating him like a criminal and not feigning incompetence.

With that said this does seem to have happened quite quickly. Was it actually an open and shut case or was the individual denied a fair trial?

In response to what Benedict said, I’ve had friends serve over there tell me the same thing - they don’t value human life over there. I don’t think encouraging them to kill more is going to help them get out of that though.
I am against the death penalty under all conditions. However our Coptic coreligionists have lived in oppression for centuries. That the civil government is willing to punish someone who murders Copts, we should rejoice.
 
My sentiments reflect the various comments here…complex…just heard tonight that 85% of the Egyptian population however believes in the death penalty as well for those who leave Islam.

My cousin raised an orphan, who grew up and joined the Army. He came back from Iraq and saw such little regard for human life by certain people…and they should be removed from society.

Executing one or two people at this time vs a millenia-old fratricidal evil spirit seems miniscule and insignificant as well. The answer to this is may be more in us…John Paul II said only the rosary and fasting would stop this terror. The Catholic Christians should follow Mary more, pray with her, fast, seek more chaste lives to stop the evil.
 
KathleenGee: The answer to this is may be more in us…John Paul II said only the rosary and fasting would stop this terror. The Catholic Christians should follow Mary more, pray with her, fast, seek more chaste lives to stop the evil.
Agreed. I don’t condone the death penalty. I find it saddening the two accomplices were released instead of a “lengthy prison sentence”. Perhaps it is God’s will and I am too bitter of a person to realize his mercy in situations such as these.
 
Understood…but with Iran entering the Suez Canal, and then these demonstrations in approximate countries…as well as what is right now in our own country…some thing BIG is coming.

Pray and fast…I am getting this sense to look up in joy…and keep it there…for our redemption is at hand…in God’s time.
 
I have no qualms either. The state has the right and responsibility to protect its law-abiding citizens and one of the best ways of doing that is to execute homicidal maniacs so that they can no longer harm anyone.
 
I have no qualms either. The state has the right and responsibility to protect its law-abiding citizens and one of the best ways of doing that is to execute homicidal maniacs so that they can no longer harm anyone.
And basically thats it. And as I mention earlier, I find no comfort in this. Yet we have not arrived a better plan today. And I also find it insane that here in the US we should spend Hundreds of Thousands to only arrive at the point of the destruction of the individual. Let alone drag the victims through this devestation for years.

Have you followed the Hayes case in CT? The second defendant is now going on trial. The first already sentenced to death. Which btw took years and just recently ended in a verdict. So once again this Christian who witnessed his Wife and two daughters tortured, raped, murdered then burned. Must be dragged though the entire process again, a second time for years?

My sympathy is with the victims first and foremost. Let alone that prolonging a life such as these, places’s in jeopardy those who he comes in contact with through incarceration, who well may be able to be saved. And its not hard to see 85% incarcerated in the USA are non-violent criminals sentenced for drug-related crimes. While they are certainly deserving of puishment for their wrongs. Is it right to subject them to homicidal nut, day in, and day out? So what are we doing, producing a school of insane thinking? The economy thus compounds the situation. While I agree the Death Sentence is not a deterant for crime nor do the families find any real satisfaction. Since only to forgive can truly allow an individual to be released from the prison in their mind. We still have not come up with a better solution? Or I fail to see it.

No easy answers here.
 
Seeing these cases drives home the fact that there is no perfect justice or mercy in this world…only in Christ…so I tend to be somewhat independent of political parties…find more solace in Catholic social doctrine…

Gary, there is something very wrong that most incarcerated are drug offenders…compared to what victims and their families have to deal with…only solace is in the Blessed Sacrament for me…pray for others…prayer is more powerful than we imagine…especially when united with our daily life and its crosses…

How much injustice in the world can be mitigated by Catholics living more in union with Christ and the cross???
 
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