Death to Christians, New Law From Iran

[MugenOne]

A month ago, the Iranian parliament voted in favour of a draft bill, entitled “Islamic Penal Code”, which would codify the death penalty for any male Iranian who leaves his Islamic faith. Women would get life imprisonment. The majority in favour of the new law was overwhelming: 196 votes for, with just seven against. Imposing the death penalty for changing religion blatantly violates one of the most fundamental of all human rights. The right to freedom of religion is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and in the European Convention of Human Rights. It is even enshrined as Article 23 of Iran’s own constitution, which states that no one may be molested simply for his beliefs. And yet few politicians or clerics in Iran see any contradiction between a law mandating the death penalty for changing religion and Iran’s constitution. There has been no public protest in Iran against it. David Miliband, Britain’s Foreign Secretary, stands out as one of the few politicians from any Western country who has put on record his opposition to making apostasy a crime punishable by death. The protest from the EU has been distinctly muted; meanwhile, Germany, Iran’s largest foreign trading partner, has just increased its business deals with Iran by more than half. Characteristically, the United Nations has said nothing. …“As the number of converts from Islam grows,” notes Ms Papadouris [from Christian Solidarity Worldwide], “apostasy has again become a serious concern for the Iranian government.” …There is another factor: President Ahmadinejad. “The President… has been lobbying for it.” tinyurl.com/4mmtae

 

[Isa_Almisry]

A month ago, the Iranian parliament voted in favour of a draft bill, entitled “Islamic Penal Code”, which would codify the death penalty for any male Iranian who leaves his Islamic faith. Women would get life imprisonment. The majority in favour of the new law was overwhelming: 196 votes for, with just seven against. Imposing the death penalty for changing religion blatantly violates one of the most fundamental of all human rights. The right to freedom of religion is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and in the European Convention of Human Rights. It is even enshrined as Article 23 of Iran’s own constitution, which states that no one may be molested simply for his beliefs. And yet few politicians or clerics in Iran see any contradiction between a law mandating the death penalty for changing religion and Iran’s constitution. There has been no public protest in Iran against it. David Miliband, Britain’s Foreign Secretary, stands out as one of the few politicians from any Western country who has put on record his opposition to making apostasy a crime punishable by death. The protest from the EU has been distinctly muted; meanwhile, Germany, Iran’s largest foreign trading partner, has just increased its business deals with Iran by more than half. Characteristically, the United Nations has said nothing. …“As the number of converts from Islam grows,” notes Ms Papadouris [from Christian Solidarity Worldwide], “apostasy has again become a serious concern for the Iranian government.” …There is another factor: President Ahmadinejad. “The President… has been lobbying for it.” tinyurl.com/4mmtae

Yes Muslims have their problems: all these laws, and people still finidng Christ.

Irony of Ironies is Pakistan: the founder Jinnah insisted that Muslims needed a Muslim state. It’s national holiday is his birthday, December 25, and his grandchildren can’t got there, because they became Christians.

 

[stringbeanduck]

What the heck kind of faith is that if one can it even follow it by his or her own will?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

What the heck kind of faith is that if one can it even follow it by his or her own will?

there is no death penatly for any ordinary ex- Muslim who does not do anything harmful for Muslims . If s/he joins the enemy groups & tries to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims , then s/he should be punished.

a related link:

Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?

Dr. Jamal Badawi is a professor at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth —

God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.
(An-Nisaa’ 4:137)

It is important to note in the above verse that if the Qur’an prescribes capital punishment for apostasy, then the apostate should be killed after the first instance of apostasy.

As such there would be no opportunity to “again come to believe and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth”. In spite of these acts of repeated apostasy, no capital punishment is prescribed for them

islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2006/04/Article02.shtml

 

[swariffin]

Salaam/peace

there is no death penatly for any ordinary ex- Muslim who does not do anything harmful for Muslims . If s/he joins the enemy groups & tries to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims , then s/he should be punished.

a related link:

Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?

Dr. Jamal Badawi is a professor at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth —

God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.
(An-Nisaa’ 4:137)

It is important to note in the above verse that if the Qur’an prescribes capital punishment for apostasy, then the apostate should be killed after the first instance of apostasy.

As such there would be no opportunity to “again come to believe and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth”. In spite of these acts of repeated apostasy, no capital punishment is prescribed for them

islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2006/04/Article02.shtml

Dear Muslim Woman,

I have a question for you. Who is more wrong, the Christian who does not believe in Muhammad (and Quran) as says so, or an Ahmadian who claim to be Muslim, but come with whatever theology they have today?

 

[RobHom]

Muslim Woman… you do know that “Denial” is not a river in Egypt don’t you?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Dear Muslim Woman,

I have a question for you. Who is more wrong, the Christian who does not believe in Muhammad (and Quran) as says so, or an Ahmadian who claim to be Muslim, but come with whatever theology they have today?

don’t know much admadians . Anyone who associate partners with God & reject any Prophet of God Almighty will be the losers on the last day.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Muslim Woman… you do know that “Denial” is not a river in Egypt don’t you?

Pl. explain.

 

[swariffin]

Salaam/peace

don’t know much admadians . Anyone who associate partners with God & reject any Prophet of God Almighty will be the losers on the last day.

Perhaps, you can PM my ahmadian brother, paarsurrey. He will tell you much more than I can.

 

[RobHom]

Salaam/peace

Pl. explain.

You are in complete denial of the realities of your situation and your “religion”.

The Nile is, as you know, a river in Egypt. It is an American saying bearing humor with a little mild disdain to say "Denial (de-nile) is not a river in Egypt.

It is one way of saying you are way off base on this subject as you are on most everything where the western world and Christian religions. You don’t even understand your own…and the realities behind it. You are unable to face the ugly truth, and to that end it will spell your immortal doom.

 

[dzheremi]

How can anyone do “Ethnic cleansing of Muslims”? Muslims aren’t an ethnicity. Even old Yugoslavia had “Muslims by Nationality” (for Bosniaks and other Slavic Muslims), not “Muslims by Ethnicity”. That’s just ridiculous.

Also, what is an “enemy group”? :Who gets to decide that? It seems like some Muslims see any non-Muslim as part of an enemy group.

And I suggest you send your copied articles to the government of Iran, since they apparently are enacting laws that are against the Quran. I couldn’t get any of the Iranian sites to load, but all the contact in for for the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa, Canada is below. I’m sure they’d love to hear why they are mistaken and how they can correct themselves.

245 Metcalfe St.
Ottawa, Ontario
K2P 2K2 Canada

Tel (consulate): (613) 233-IRAN (4726)
Fax (consulate): (613) 236-IRAN (4726)
Tel (embassy): (613) 235-IRAN (4726)
Fax (embassy): (613) 232-5712

E-Mail:

E-mail - (Consulate): consulate@salamiran.org

E-mail (Embassy): iranemb@salamiran.org

E-mail (Ambassador): ambassador@iranembassy.org

Higher Education Advisory: h.e.a.ott@cyberus.ca

Website: salamiran.org

Embassy Hours: Monday to Friday 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Consulate Hours: Monday to Friday 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Salaam/peace

there is no death penatly for any ordinary ex- Muslim who does not do anything harmful for Muslims . If s/he joins the enemy groups & tries to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims , then s/he should be punished.

a related link:

Is Apostasy a Capital Crime in Islam?

Dr. Jamal Badawi is a professor at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth —

God will not forgive them, nor will guide them in any way.
(An-Nisaa’ 4:137)

It is important to note in the above verse that if the Qur’an prescribes capital punishment for apostasy, then the apostate should be killed after the first instance of apostasy.

As such there would be no opportunity to “again come to believe and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of truth”. In spite of these acts of repeated apostasy, no capital punishment is prescribed for them

islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2006/04/Article02.shtml

Hello it’s nice to meet you. What about in the country of Iran? The OP said that those who try to convert from Muslim in the nation of Iran may get capital punishment for males and imprisonment for females. That is forcing some1 against their will to follow that faith. No Christian dominant nation has such a law at least not currently. I think that is horrible that they can’t decide for themselves which faith to follow. I do know there are peaceful forms of Islam, but Iran and some other nations seem to be against that and are becoming more strict on those who wish to change.

 

[cathopologist]

there is no death penatly for any ordinary ex- Muslim who does not do anything harmful for Muslims . If s/he joins the enemy groups & tries to do the ethnic cleansing of Muslims , then s/he should be punished.

In this case, most apostates of Islam are ‘ordinary ex-Muslims’. When was the last time you heard of an ex-Muslim doing anything harmful to his/her Muslim neighbor? When was the last time you heard of an ex-Muslim committing genocide? They’d be terrified of just stepping outside their house.

The Iranian parliament is just making an excuse to murder an innocent life because they are paranoid an ex-Muslim might topple their Islamic state.

 

[Sam_777]

Death is the punishment if someone leaves Islam, here are direct authentic hadiths about the death punishment of the apostasy, so the Iranian parliament is not doing something against the Islamic law:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
“Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
(E) (A)

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
“…Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu’adh asked, “Who is this (man)?” Abu Muisa said, “He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.” Then Abu Muisa requested Mu’adh to sit down but Mu’adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed…”
(E) (A)

Sahih Muslim, Book 016, Number 4152:
“'Abdullah (b. Mas’ud) reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah, but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.”
(E) (A)

 

[cathopologist]

Yes Muslims have their problems: all these laws, and people still finidng Christ.

Irony of Ironies is Pakistan: the founder Jinnah insisted that Muslims needed a Muslim state. It’s national holiday is his birthday, December 25, and his grandchildren can’t got there, because they became Christians.

This is strange. Why is Isa Almisry banned after this post? Someone help me understand?

 

[ralphinal]

This is strange. Why is Isa Almisry banned after this post? Someone help me understand?

As near as I can tell, it may not have been this specific post that got him banned. Someone may have reported another one. We also don’t know if he had spent any time in the purgatory for posters (account suspended or under review) in the past.

I hate to see him go. I learned a lot from him

 

[dzheremi]

I noticed his account was under review a few days ago, but then it seemed like it wasn’t anymore, and now he’s banned? Hmmm.

That’s terrible. I don’t know what he did, but he was one of my favorite people here, and I learned a lot from him. This place is definitely much worse off without him.

 

[cathopologist]

Agreed guys. We may not have seen eye to eye on papal issues, but i have respected him for his non-confrontational views. I have learned alot from him also. I don’t know what he did to deserve the ban but i truly hope he will continue with his mission elsewhere.

 

[jen_fla]

I noticed his account was under review a few days ago, but then it seemed like it wasn’t anymore, and now he’s banned? Hmmm.

That’s terrible. I don’t know what he did, but he was one of my favorite people here, and I learned a lot from him. This place is definitely much worse off without him.

i agree. i too really enjoyed his posts.

my guess is he finally lost it with these cruel teachings from islam… or with the diversions or excuses made for them. i know there have been several times i have had to walk away from the keyboard for fear of what i might say. if the fact that this so called peaceful religion allows death for leaving it doesn’t show everyone it’s true colors, then i don’t know what will.

thank you sam for posting those again.

i am curious though. what do you think most likely is the reason we are always given an answer to the violence that is not accurate?

do you think our fellow muslim posters are ignorant to their own religion?

do you think they don’t want to believe those teachings, so they look for easier/earlier peaceful ones to justify it?

or perhaps do you think it is a deliberate attempt to spread the ideology incorrectly?

either way most muslim countries see apostasy as a crime. kind of like a shotgun wedding isn’t it?

 

[Sam_777]

This is strange. Why is Isa Almisry banned after this post? Someone help me understand?

Yes, its sad to see our fellow Isa banned, he was very knowledgeable person, and he has more than 7000 posts under his belt.

I wonder why he was banned!, I don’t think it has anything to do with his last post, maybe its related to some of his previous posts.