The Scriptures also state that we will “see God as He is.” I have a hard time understanding how this can be squared with the notion that we will see only His energies.
The fact is that is devovles into ditheism and maybe its something everyone should avoid altogether. Besides, aren’t you the one’s who think God is mysterious? This sounds way too much like some one is trying to describe and classify the mystery in complete contradiction to the apophatic approach.
I have never viewed it as being boiled down into ditheism anymore than the Trinity is boiled down into tritheism. With the correct understanding, it is not comparable…There are some things which God reveals and there are some things which He does not. How is this ditheism? As for the “aren’t you the one’s who think God is mysterious,” I’m not sure what you mean…Don’t you believe God is mysterious??? If not, then please tell me everything about Him!
The essence energies issue is quite different from the essence energies distinction. Within the Trinity, the members are all ONE IN ESSENCE as the liturgy states. Something’s essence is what that thing is. When we distinguish God’s energies from his essence, then we say that his energies are a thing completely different from God himself (his essence), we make them another being. Yet hesychasts believe the essence is also God. So now we have two beings are that called God. That is ditheism. Quite different from the members of the Trinity that are all of the same essence.
The East is very proud of a tradition that views God as mysterious taking the apophatic approach to theology. And often Eastern Christians are very suspect of Western Scholasticism, believing that Western Christians over describe God and his mysteries. Yet, in the essence/energies debate we have Eastern Christians attempting to classify God and separate him into parts. They do this with regard to a matter that revelation has nothing to say. It is as if they simply imposed a neoplatonic world view onto God, completely abandoning apophaticism.As for the “aren’t you the one’s who think God is mysterious,” I’m not sure what you mean…Don’t you believe God is mysterious??? If not, then please tell me everything about Him!
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
With all due respect, perhaps it is really the essence/energies distinction that you have a problem with, not this separate issue you have seemingly created?
If I were a Byzantine Catholic I would be highly offended by this bit of trashing and bashing of their theology.
We can, and MUST , learn a lot from each other
I have little knowlege of this issue as well.
Sound advise. Can you enlighten me as to this Essence and Energies doctrine and perhaps we can explore it in depth with dialogue instead of debate.
Hopefully you won’t get any of this triumphalism from me.
The filioque devolves into ditheism so if you want to discount the energies/essence distinction with this argumentation then you must also discount the filioque.
The Byzantines deny this. If you read Lossky, you will see that they believe that the energies are nothing other than God Himself. They do not follow the philosophers understanding that God is only essence.
I don’t like the essence/energies distinction myself but your arguements are false. They are addressed by the theology itself. The energies are not distinct from God. They are His action in the world. The classic image is that of the sun and the rays of light that come from it.
You would know, if you read your own Pope’s encyclicals such as Light of the East by Pope John Paul II, that you are completely out of line to question something that the Catholic Church has taught for centuries in the eastern part of the Church. The Pope was extremely clear that he approves of Eastern Catholic Theology/Beliefs & that it is his wish that Western Catholics fully embrace the rich spiritual/theological heritage of the East. Based on the encyclicals of the Roman Catholic Pope, any “objections” you have to Catholic Theology in regards to any part of Eastern beliefs/practices such as the difference between Essence and Energies simply show your ignorance to Catholic Teaching and that you are actually Anti-Catholic and therefore, should not even be responded to.
I thought my simple question to you was quite valid…
Don’t base your decision on a few individuals who are not open to this one idea. As an Eastern Catholic myself, though, I would say that this is not uncommon and can be a big turn-off and push to go to Orthodoxy. That is not the sole reason for me to want to do so, though…
I echo Alexius. The posters on an Internet forum are nothing more than a secondary resource to be used cautiously and under solid direction. Don’t base your salvation on the opinion of a random person’s words on a computer screen.
By distinguishing some thing from God’s essence, you are creating a separate being. Thus the energies are an entirely different being, no matter how loud hesychasts protest. The sun and its rays image does not work either. The rays of the sun are not the sun itself but a product of the sun. Are you suggesting that God’s “energies” are a product of God?
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