Debate with my Girlfriend Part 2

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ESMDHokie77

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Hi CAF…
So in continuation of this thread… I am still struggling with the difference between me and my girlfriend.
You all were very helpful previously and I ask for you opinion on the situation as it is now. I am about to send an e-mail to one she sent, and I ask for any and all comments. I haven’t sent my e-mail yet…

Her email:​

Uhhh… This just makes me upset.
newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm

I was trying to find a Catholic opinion on Protestantism.
Basically it rails everything I believe and hold dear… No wonder you seem to think that my religion (or lack there-of) is misguided. I can’t even read it all, it makes me sick.
With words like “fancy” “lure” and “spurn” you can make someone believe anything.
It even has an Ecclesiastical Approbation.
No wonder when I asked you to read or understand something about what I believe, you scoffed.
Perhaps I’ll turn you into a voodoo zombie too, bc it seems like you were taught what I believe is essentially the same thing.
I know it’s from a Catholic website and their job is to make people want to be a Catholic, but this doesn’t exactly foster brotherly love now does it?
I’m hurt, Phil… I did think that you perhaps didn’t know anything about Protestants, but it seems the exact opposite. It seems like you’ve been TAUGHT that Protestant doctrine is wrong.
--------- end of her e-mail
 

My response, as a draft, not yet sent:​

My Beloved,

I am truly sorry that you have found material that does not speak with accurate, prudent, friendly, and Christ-like language. You surely feel the same that I did Saturday night and Sunday morning when I read from a book that called the Roman Catholic Church, the “whore of Babylon.” Imagine how I felt finding a book like that in a home of your family, it being owned by someone in your family. A book which tears down a Christian Church as stating it to being wholly unholy. This webpage is not owned by me nor by the Church.

The article in question is part of a website copyrighted by a layperson (member of the laity, regular person not ordained. Normal like you and me), not an organization that can speak with authority. The Ecclesiastical Approbation is dated as 1911. Something is amiss if an internet page was granted these nearly 100 years ago. The approbation is not a seal of approval, it is a declaration that something is free of doctrinal and moral error. No, the webpage you found does not foster ecumenical progress.

It is a difficult to read article and I read most of it. … Furthermore, the website is a transcribing of the Catholic Encyclopedia written in the 1910’s, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia, thus explaining the date. The website seems to have been left to sit since 1997. I assure you there are far more accurate, comprehensive, and friendly documents to reference… starting with The Catechism of the Catholic Church, as the be-all end-all reference for the Latin Rite. amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church/dp/1574551108/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1295328962&sr=8-2 I have two copies of this and would be happy to provide you with one, an online version of it is here: usccb.org/catechism/text /.

On Roman Catholic and Presbyterian/Reformed relations, I present you with:
usccb.org/seia/ , for relations with all religious groups. “Ecumenical Relations” on the left presents you with relations between Holy Mother Church and Christians in varying stages of communion with her.
usccb.org/seia/reformed.shtml , a page specifically for Presbyterian and Reformed relations with Holy Mother Church.

And to link to the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity:
oikoumene.org/fileadmin/files/wcc-main/documents/p2/2010/WOP2011eng.pdf

I don’t remember scoffing and I don’t believe that I did scoff at the idea of reading about your beliefs. I hesitate, but I am willing to.

Dear, please don’t turn me into a voodoo zombie!

I was never taught what you believed. It was hard enough learning how to be a mechanical engineer. Learning how to be a civil engineer or computer engineer would’ve required many more years at Virginia Tech. While they are all engineers, and the basic principle of designing, analyzing, and building something is the same, the expertise in each field is quite different. Just as the Holy Trinity, Gospels, and most of the Bible is shared by all Christians, other beliefs are quite different; (sola fide, sola scriptura, Sacred Tradition, Transubstantiation, consubstantiation, The Immaculate Conception, the list goes on as we know). And in both cases, I am just beginning my career as an engineer, just as I am beginning my adult life and trying to live as a good Christian. But perhaps it was a bad example, since one can be both a Civil and Mechanical Engineer, yet one can only be Catholic or Protestant, etc. Yet they are all engineers, as my family and yours are all Christians.

Any knowledge that I have of your beliefs and those of other non-Catholic Christians has been through my own reading, or fact finding over the internet, or observation. I was, however, taught that I was a member of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church established by Christ and that Jesus loves everyone. My belief that the Church of Christ subsists in the Roman Catholic Church does not preclude grace and salvation from those not in communion with her, but I do believe that out of all of the denominations that have formed over the past 2 millennia, the Roman Catholic Church teaches all and provides all that I need.

It seems you have had no model Catholics in your life to truly learn of or from. While that is a shame, we’ve each had good Christians in our lives, and we are fortunate for that. I am a Catholic and I am striving to become a model Catholic, I will always have to strive for this.

I found this page an interesting read: gotquestions.org/denominations-Christian.html
I’ve been taught and believe that no house divided against itself will stand. Can you disprove this statement: there is no single complete “doctrine of faith” that all protestants claim as their own? You would be a lot different if you were Baptist, Lutheran, or Anglican, as would this discussion. Most online sources cite at least 20,000 Christian denominations, most of which reject the Pope and have membership numbers that pale in comparison to the largest denomination.

You and I share faith in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We hold different beliefs on how we act out that faith.

I Love You Always,
---------------------------------------- end of draft

So, Thank you for reading however much of this you have. I have no desire nor intention to stop dating my girlfriend. I am seeking your help in responding and I thank you for any help you lend and any prayers you send for my intercession.

-Philip
 
It seems to me like your relationship has been based upon arguing over religion as opposed to what it should be based on. Please - step back dating is to discern marriage - can you really raise Catholic children with this woman as their mother?
 
One important quibble: The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not just for the Latin Rite.

One less important point: If you keep speaking in generalities, you’ll keep arguing yourself into the ground. Get to specific points of doctrine or history. Her view of the Catholic Church is not at all being contradicted by your response — your example only presents an exception, not a rule.
 
From your other thread:
She questions everything and decides if things are true or false for her, and I strive to take all of Catholicism to heart.
Click to expand...
Do not pursue Catholicism out of love for Catholicism. Pursue the truth out of love for Christ. If you have faith that Catholicism is true, then it is because you have faith that it is true, and was founded by Jesus Christ and “the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.” Same goes for her: Is Protestantism everything she “holds dear” out of love for Protestantism or out of love for Christ?

If she questions everything, answer her questions. If she isn’t satisfied, get someone else to help answer her questions. If she’s belligerently refusing to listen to anything, make sure you’re listening to what she has to say. If you are listening, and she isn’t, then shake the dust from your feet.

Most of all, here’s a free resource on ecumenism that you should listen to and that you might want her to hear. Listen to it and understand the right reasons to want to be Catholic. I worry you have the wrong idea entirely about what Catholicism means and what ecumenism means.

By the way, ditch the “Roman” from your Catholic. Your rite is incidental to your catholicity.
 
I think this is a letter that should be answered in person, not be email. Your girlfriend expressed hurt, and you should address the hurt more than the argument.

Just explain the article is about a hundred years old, and that with 2 billion adherents, some Catholics are just mean :(.

You also have to express your respect for her beliefs, even if you disagree. You are Catholic, and you are just as alienated from Communion at a Presbyterian service as she is at a Catholic Mass (I skimmed your previous message too).

I dated a Baptist about a year ago, and had a very similar argument with her. Its difficult (note the past tense in dated 😦 ). You can’t expect her to convert for you. She feels just as obliged to put God first as you do. What you must expect, if your relationship is to grow towards a successful marriage, is mutual respect and understanding about your believes.

Take a step back, apologize, and plan to resume learning about and understanding each others faiths again in the not to distant future.
 
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