Debates over the faith

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BigDL75

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I just had a heated debate with someone over many components of our Catholic faith. The main issue was whether or not a Catholic has to accept such teachings as those on birth control, premarital sex, abortion, etc. I said, yes, a Catholic does have to accept these things, while the person I was debating with said a Catholic does not have to accept these things. She went on to say that there was certain leeway involved in this. I disagreed and said that there really isn’t any leeway on this stuff and that if one can’t accept these teachings, they might as well go off and become a Protestant. Although there are times when I do not necessarily understand some of the Church’s teachings, I do follow them because I have faith in the Church. Then the debate progressed into the whole “The Church is a man-made institution” debate and so on and so on. I came away really frustrated. I know what the Church teaches, but who would most Catholics agree with, me or the person I was debating? What can I do if I get into this debate again? What can I say? Thanks!
By the way, the person I debated is very near and dear to my heart, so that makes it even more frustrating.
 
BigDL75 said:
I just had a heated debate with someone over many components of our Catholic faith. The main issue was whether or not a Catholic has to accept such teachings as those on birth control, premarital sex, abortion, etc. I said, yes, a Catholic does have to accept these things, while the person I was debating with said a Catholic does not have to accept these things. She went on to say that there was certain leeway involved in this. I disagreed and said that there really isn’t any leeway on this stuff and that if one can’t accept these teachings, they might as well go off and become a Protestant. Although there are times when I do not necessarily understand some of the Church’s teachings, I do follow them because I have faith in the Church. Then the debate progressed into the whole “The Church is a man-made institution” debate and so on and so on. I came away really frustrated. I know what the Church teaches, but who would most Catholics agree with, me or the person I was debating? What can I do if I get into this debate again? What can I say? Thanks!
By the way, the person I debated is very near and dear to my heart, so that makes it even more frustrating.
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show where Christ established a church, show the authority he gave it, and also refer that person back to the “narrow gate” passage, and the one which states “who listens to you listens to me” (or something like that) show how in acts that couple who didn’t give everything died, and Peter told them that they didn’t lie to him, they lied to the holy spirit. When they say the church is a man made institution, isn’t that insulting the divinity of Christ, since the bible shows him establishing it.
 
Big DL,

To answer your last question first, it really doesn’t matter how many Catholics would agree with the other party in your debate, you are still right. The Church teaches her doctrines because they are true and for no other reason. We ignore them at our peril, not because the Church will do something to us, but for the same reason that we ignore the law of gravity at our peril: the consequences of disobeying these teachings will eventually bite us.

The statement that “the Church is a man-made institution” is complete hogwash. Jesus personally founded the Catholic Church; you can read about it in Matthew 16.

All that said, debating is a really poor way to get somebody to change his or her mind. If a person is looking for the truth (or even for your version of the truth), you can tell him the truth without getting into an argument; if he is looking for an argument, then he is not particularly interested in the truth. (If he is looking for the truth, he may ask various questions about what you have said and ask for clarification; that is different from arguing.)
  • Liberian
 
BigDL75 said:
I just had a heated debate with someone over many components of our Catholic faith. The main issue was whether or not a Catholic has to accept such teachings as those on birth control, premarital sex, abortion, etc. I said, yes, a Catholic does have to accept these things, while the person I was debating with said a Catholic does not have to accept these things. She went on to say that there was certain leeway involved in this. I disagreed and said that there really isn’t any leeway on this stuff and that if one can’t accept these teachings, they might as well go off and become a Protestant. Although there are times when I do not necessarily understand some of the Church’s teachings, I do follow them because I have faith in the Church. Then the debate progressed into the whole “The Church is a man-made institution” debate and so on and so on. I came away really frustrated. I know what the Church teaches, but who would most Catholics agree with, me or the person I was debating? What can I do if I get into this debate again? What can I say? Thanks!
By the way, the person I debated is very near and dear to my heart, so that makes it even more frustrating.
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I know how you feel because I also have loved ones who hold these views.

Tell them Christ didn’t suffer and die on the Cross so we could just live as we please down here. He called us to imitate Him. To take up our cross daily and deny ourselves if we wish to follow Him. Christianity is centered entirely on self sacrifice. Whoever doesn’t understand this basic concept doesn’t understand Christiantiy. The Church didn’t just invent rules to “oppress” its members. Its teachings are based on deep, eternal truths.

People have laid down their lives as martyrs for our faith, and yet we’re not even willing to temporarily abstain from marital relations, or live up to the solemn vows of the Marriage Covenant for our faith? Some are even willing to kill an unborn child, rather than suffer a difficult road themselves. Does that say our life is Christ centered, or self centered? What would Christ say if he were standing next to an abortionist doing his work? Or even having relations out of wedlock? The thing is, He IS standing there!

If we choose contraception, divorce and remarriage, abortion, etc, we choose to follow earthly pleasure at all cost, as long as that cost is not suffering ourselves. This is about as far as you can get from following Christ crucified. It’s never acceptable to do evil in order to acheive apparent good.

“He who seeks his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.” Matt. 10:39
 
BigDL75 said:
I just had a heated debate with someone over many components of our Catholic faith. The main issue was whether or not a Catholic has to accept such teachings as those on birth control, premarital sex, abortion, etc. I said, yes, a Catholic does have to accept these things, while the person I was debating with said a Catholic does not have to accept these things. She went on to say that there was certain leeway involved in this. I disagreed and said that there really isn’t any leeway on this stuff and that if one can’t accept these teachings, they might as well go off and become a Protestant. Although there are times when I do not necessarily understand some of the Church’s teachings, I do follow them because I have faith in the Church. Then the debate progressed into the whole “The Church is a man-made institution” debate and so on and so on. I came away really frustrated. I know what the Church teaches, but who would most Catholics agree with, me or the person I was debating? What can I do if I get into this debate again? What can I say? Thanks!
By the way, the person I debated is very near and dear to my heart, so that makes it even more frustrating.
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She is incorrect. When we say “Amen” it isn’t just a word or ending of a prayer. It is an assent to full belief in what the faith teaches is the truth.

Amen isn’t something to be uttered carelessly, most in particular when it is not believed. It doesn’t mean “Truly” but with with personal addendums. Basically it’s a false oath on those terms.
Then the debate progressed into the whole “The Church is a man-made institution” debate and so on and so on.
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She is 100% correct. Jesus was fully human (and fully divine). Jesus, the man/God instituted the church when he said:

18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Unless of course one denies Jesus really became man and was fully human.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Nicene said:
She is incorrect. When we say “Amen” it isn’t just a word or ending of a prayer. It is an assent to full belief in what the faith teaches is the truth.

Amen isn’t something to be uttered carelessly, most in particular when it is not believed. It doesn’t mean “Truly” but with with personal addendums. Basically it’s a false oath on those terms.

She is 100% correct. Jesus was fully human (and fully divine). Jesus, the man/God instituted the church when he said:

18: And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Unless of course one denies Jesus really became man and was fully human.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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This applies too.

Q: As Catholics, do we have to accept everything the Church teaches?

A: If you want to call yourself Catholic, but you want to pick and choose for yourself which of the Church’s teachings to accept and which to reject, you give everyone else who calls themselves Catholic the right to do the same thing.

For example, you believe women should be priests…in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1577 states, “Only a baptized man validly receives ordination…For this reason the ordination of women is not possible!” You don’t believe that…well, that’s fine…[RIP] just tear that page out of your Catechism…you just made it a Catechism of your Catholic Church…not mine.

But remember, if you can throw doctrines out, so can everyone else who calls themselves Catholic. That gives Joe Parishioner over at St. Doubting Thomas Catholic Church the right to throw out the Church’s social justice teachings…he doesn’t feel like feeding the hungry, caring for the poor, and all that other “bleeding heart” stuff - Paragraphs 2401 -2463 [RIP]…he just made it a Catechism of his Catholic Church…not mine and not yours.

You believe contraception is okay? Paragraph 2370 says contraception is intrinsically evil! [RIP] Joe Parishioner doesn’t like what the Church teaches on the death penalty - Paragraphs 2266-2267[RIP]. You don’t like what it teaches on pages 55-60 [RIP]. He doesn’t like what it teaches on pages 128-140 [RIP]

Can you see what’s happening? I heard it said once that there is a shortage of vocations to the priesthood in the United States, but no shortage of vocations to the Papacy! If we don’t believe in all of it, if we each appoint ourselves Pope and throw out a doctrine here or a doctrine there, then our faith is no longer Catholic.

Apologetics 101-04
 
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