Debating a Protestant

[Daniel_Marsh]

Another Protestant I’m debating claims that the Culdee Church was the first church, not the Catholic Church. I can’t seem to find any information from Catholic sources regarding this. Could anyone help with this? Thanks again.

Ok, he must be assuming that the Catholic Church was founded in 325 AD under Constine myth.

Use his own literature aganist him,

"Be it known to all men that the year of our Lord God 179, Lucius the first Christian king of the land then called Britain, founded the first church in London. That is to say the church of St Peter upon Cornhill and he founded there an archbishop’s see or seat and made the church the metropolitan or chief church of the kingdom. So endured the space of 400 years unto the coming of St Augustine the apostle of England: the which was sent into the land by St Gregory the doctor in the church at the time of king Ethelbert".

ensignmessage.com/archives/celticorigins.html

So, this source gives us a clear date of founding this church that being 179 AD. You need only at this point quote Church Fathers who predate 179 about Catholic beliefs.

The Early Church Fathers on
Apostolic Succession

The Early Fathers believed that authentic teaching and authority came through apostolic succession.

Clement of Rome

Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry (Letter to the Corinthians 44:1 A.D. 95]).

Ignatius of Antioch

You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8:1 A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

It is possible, then, for everyone in every Church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the Apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the Apostles, and their successors to our own times: men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about. For if the Apostles had known hidden mysteries which they taught to the elite secretly and apart from the rest, they would have handed them down especially to those very ones to whom they were committing the self-same Churches. For surely they wished all those and their successors to be perfect and without reproach, to whom they handed on their authority (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. **180-199]).

It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who, as we have shown, have succession from the Apostles; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion (ibid 4:26:2).

staycatholic.com/ecf_apostolic_succession.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Culdee church itself, claims,

THE APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION OF THE CHURCH OF THE CULDEES

The three primary lines of Apostolic Succession enjoyed by the Church of the Culdees are the Antiochian - Jacobite; the Roman - Old Catholic; and the Jewish - Celtic. The first two listings include the order of succession from Peter, and the third from James the Less, Bishop of Jerusalem.

peak.org/~culdee/ap.html

Their commentary on the Apostles Creed,

And in Jesus Christ, his Only Son, Our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.
Jesus is the God-Human, the Human-God, his Divine Nature begotten by his Heavenly Father, his human nature born of his Mother Mary the Theotokos-the God Bearer. Jesus is the only being who fully participates in Divinity and humanity. He is our Way to the Father. He is our Brother as well as our Lord. He is our High Priest as well as the Eternal Sacrifice for our sins. Jesus is the ultimate paradox.

…
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.

This last statement of the Creed may seem to be a random collection of things that wouldn’t fit in anywhere else. It is not. It is the Holy Spirit who makes the other things possible. The Church, the Communion of Saints, exists because the Spirit of God empowers us to reach beyond our human limitations into the realm of eternity. Our sins are forgiven in the Church because Jesus breathed the Spirit onto the Apostles giving them the authority to bind and loose. The power is God’s, the Church is the vehicle. Our faith in our own resurrection and eternal life with the Trinity in the Kingdom is kept alive and vital by the continuing Presence of the Spirit in the Church. One creed put it, “the Divine Presence in our lives, whereby we are kept in perpetual remembrance of the truth of Christ.”

The Creed ends with Amen. So be it. Pay close attention to what you say when you pray this Creed, or the Nicene Creed, and when you get to the Amen, say it with enthusiasm and thanksgiving!

peak.org/~culdee/creed.html

If you dig deeper into the true Culdee Church, you will likely see it is more Catholic in theology than his form of protestantism.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

…
The chief sign and necessary foundation for this genuine unity is doctrinal agreement. All too often, particularly among Church jurisdictions within the historic stream of Old Catholicism, sharing the Body and Blood of Our Savior in Eucharistic worship has served as the first step rather than the last step and seal of a movement toward union. …

Additionally the Church is charged with guarding, preserving and passing on the whole body of faith which includes, in addition to Scripture, the accepted canons of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, the teachings of the Mothers and Fathers of the faith, the teaching and lives of the Saints and the rest of Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is not to be understood as something strictly of the past, but rather as the expression of the presence of the Holy Spirit within the whole body of believers continuing, as was promised by our Lord, to lead the Church into all truth. …

The People of God gathered for Eucharist in Sacramental (Mysterious) continuity with the Apostles. Simply put, an organization which is not grounded in Eucharistic worship and which does not have bishops ordained to the episcopate within a valid Apostolic Succession, may be many things, but it is not the Church of Jesus Christ.

DOCTRINAL AGREEMENT:

As Orthodox Catholic Christians our first point of agreement is the so called Nicene Creed. This statement is also known as the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed and as the Symbol of Faith.

THE SYMBOL OF FAITH

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us and our salvation came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made human. He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered death and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sits at the Right Hand of the Father. He shall come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead, and his kingdom shall have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver-of-life, who proceeds from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets.
I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

…
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
…
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the Communion of Saints,
…
Additionally we recognize the historicity and worth of the Quicunque Vult, commonly called The Creed of Saint Athanasius:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.
…
Also of high importance among the teaching of the early united Church are these two teachings of the Ecumenical Councils. First, Council of Chalcedon, 451 A.D., Act V:

of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer (Theotokos); one and
…
Secondly, we are in accord with the Seventh Ecumenical Council, the second at Nice (745 AD) which teaches us that the use of Ikons (images) in worship is both acceptable and efficacious for Christian growth and sanctification.
…

We therefore reject the decrees of the so-called Council of the Vatican, which were promulgated July 18th, 1870, concerning the infallibility and the universal Episcopate of the Bishop of Rome, decrees which are in contradiction with the faith of the ancient Church, and which destroy its ancient canonical constitution by attributing to the Pope the plentitude of ecclesiastical powers over all Dioceses and over all the faithful. By denial of this primatial jurisdiction we do not wish to deny the historical primacy which several Ecumenical Councils and Fathers of the ancient Church have attributed to the Bishop of Rome by recognizing him as the Primus inter pares.

We also reject the dogma of the Immaculate Conception promulgated by Pius IX in 1854 in defiance of the Holy Scriptures and in contradiction to the tradition of the centuries.

…

We refuse to accept the decrees of the Council of Trent in …

Considering that the Holy Eucharist has always been the true central point of Catholic worship, we consider it our right to declare that we maintain with perfect fidelity the ancient Catholic doctrine concerning the Sacrament of the Altar, by believing that we receive the Body and Blood of our Savior Jesus Christ under the species of bread and wine.

peak.org/~culdee/Concord.html

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I looked up the passage in a couple of Greek Interlinear sites and none of them had “and the bride”. But that shouldn’t be a problem because it is Christ who is the bridegroom and the entire Church is the bride.

So, the Groom locked out five of his wives?

Please…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Ok, he must be assuming that the Catholic Church was founded in 325 AD under Constine myth.

Use his own literature aganist him,

ensignmessage.com/archives/celticorigins.html

So, this source gives us a clear date of founding this church that being 179 AD. You need only at this point quote Church Fathers who predate 179 about Catholic beliefs.

That detail about Lucius is fiction - it appears that “Britannia” was mistaken for “Britium” - which is in what was Asia Minor.​

This leaves your quotations from the Fathers unaffected.

The Early Church Fathers on
Apostolic Succession

The Early Fathers believed that authentic teaching and authority came through apostolic succession.

Clement of Rome

Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry (Letter to the Corinthians 44:1 A.D. 95]).

Ignatius of Antioch

You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8:1 A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

It is possible, then, for everyone in every Church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the Apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the Apostles, and their successors to our own times: men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about. For if the Apostles had known hidden mysteries which they taught to the elite secretly and apart from the rest, they would have handed them down especially to those very ones to whom they were committing the self-same Churches. For surely they wished all those and their successors to be perfect and without reproach, to whom they handed on their authority (Against Heresies 3:3:1 [A.D. **180-199

]).

It is necessary to obey those who are the presbyters in the Church, those who, as we have shown, have succession from the Apostles; those who have received, with the succession of the episcopate, the sure charism of truth according to the good pleasure of the Father. But the rest, who have no part in the primitive succession and assemble wheresoever they will, must be held in suspicion (ibid 4:26:2).

staycatholic.com/ecf_apostolic_succession.htm

 

[shawn34_a]

Explaining what?

The fact that Catholics are not to pray to Mary, saints, Knights of Templar, or whatever the case. Catholics are to ask them to pray for us.

 

[DylanO]

One of the Protestants I’ve been debating is once again spewing his same old stuff, I’m kind of frustrated at this and am not sure how to respond. I’d appreciate the help.

Here is what he wrote:

Let’s see, for about 600 years the catholic church was behind the inquisition, and it used it power over the civil government to do this, and as the people’s constitutional rights are taken away from them by congress and the president and as we head for the new world order, you know that the catholic church will want the power it once had. The culdee was formed 36AD, the catholic church was formed in 313 AD. Many times, council after council told the catholic church to leave the Culdee alone, but in one the catholic church killed 1100 preists and bishops of that church. A christian church would plants seeds and tell the truth of the word to bring people to thier church, not by the point of the sword. god gave us free will and we canot exercise fre will if we are in bondage and the catholic would keep in bondage through fear and guilt,with through Jesus we are saved from, which this church does not believe. If Jesus forgives you it’s like it never happened, but not with the catholic church. Better wake up and grow up, time is getting short.

 

[DylanO]

I have another quick question. I responded to a the Protestant, whom, I quoted above and someone else responded.

This is what I quoted:

St. Cyprian, De lapsis (+251 AD):“Let each confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession can be received, while satisfaction and the forgiveness granted by the priests is acceptable to God”

His reply:

Show me in Biblical Scripture from the New Testament - preferably a King James (since I don’t personally trust either of the Catholic versions) - where a priest is the one who grants forgiveness.

Any answers to this or some articles on this, perhaps?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

His reply:

Show me in Biblical Scripture from the New Testament - preferably a King James (since I don’t personally trust either of the Catholic versions) - where a priest is the one who grants forgiveness.

It’s necessary to start in the OT:

Leviticus 5:5-6, KJV 5And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:

6And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

To be forgiven we must confess, and there is penance to be performed after our sins are confessed (a guilt offering), and a person could not go straight to God to have his sins forgiven. They had to go to a priest.
(Remember 2 Timothy 3:16? All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.)

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The OT practices should give us a clue as to the NT practices. They are a shadow of the things to come. In the Old covenant, God was training His people, giving them clues of the things to come. In the OT we had confession of sin, penance, and the involvement of a priest.

I John 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Does it say we are to confess our sins to God alone and not to man? No!

James 5:16 KJV Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It says confess to one another, not JUST to God. BUT do we go around confessing to just anyone? Doesn’t it make sense for us to forgive our sins to those who have the power to forgive our sins? Whoa! Men can forgive sins? Some will say (and they’re correct) that only God can forgive sins. Catholics also believe this. They also believe that God can and does exercise this power through men. It is God’s power, but He exercises it through men.

Mark 2:7 KJVWhy doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Yes, God alone can forgive sins. But this statement was spoken by the scribes, who had a limited understanding of God’s power. Jesus goes on to point this out. To say that ONLY God can forgive sins puts you on the same side with the scribes. Generally speaking, this is not a good thing.

Matthew 9:3-6, 8 KJV 3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. …8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.(plural)

God gave this authority to MEN, not just to a MAN. What authority did God give them? The authority on earth to forgive sins.

John Chapter 20:19-23 KJV 19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

The apostles were given the authority to forgive sins! Why give them that authority if people will not be confessing sins to them? How can you forgive/retain someone’s sins unless they are confessing their sins to you? The priest is an integral part of how God set up the system for receiving the forgiveness of sin.

 

[DylanO]

It’s necessary to start in the OT:…

Thanks for your response, Pixie Dust. I sent it to him, and this is what he said:

That’s not what I get from reading those scriptures. Thanks for the attempt though. To me it looks like you’re interpreting it the way that you want it to be interpreted. I always wondered why we were taught Catholics aren’t Christians, it’s how you guys interpret Scripture.

My Understanding of that Scripture is that the power was given to Men - not just Priests - who would accept Christ. Otherwise it should have said the power was given to priests.

 

[Teflon93]

Sounds like another ABC Protestant to me—“Anything But Catholic.”

Here’s why:

He makes some claim, offering little or no evidence himself.

He then challenges the Catholic to respond, but:

a. Insists on a very narrow window of evidence (not all of Scripture, not all translations of it, but KJV only, for example)

b. Rejects any interpretation (including the plain text of Scripture) which is not his own.

This is not a person who is open to reason, but merely one who is cleaning to the walls of a tiny little bubble of cognitive dissonance containing such rarified air as to allow his personal view of the faith to survive.

Every Catholic argument only makes that bubble smaller and increases his discomfort.

He is clearly not ready to burst it and be free.

Prayers are in order, for him, and for all those who must live in such bubbles rather than live in the world.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Thanks for your response, Pixie Dust. I sent it to him, and this is what he said:

That’s not what I get from reading those scriptures. Thanks for the attempt though. To me it looks like you’re interpreting it the way that you want it to be interpreted. I always wondered why we were taught Catholics aren’t Christians, it’s how you guys interpret Scripture.

Well, a couple of things cross my mind.

1. He says, “That’s not what I get” which means he’s got his own personal interpretation of the Biblical text. If he believes that the Holy Spirit leads every individual into an understanding of Scripture then you have just as much a right to your (Catholic) interpretation as he does to his interpretation. The interpretation presented is the way that Christians have understood those passages since the beginning of Christianity. How old is his interpretation?
2. Catholics aren’t Christians because we disagree with his interpretation of Scripture? Does that mean anyone who disagrees with him about any portion of Scripture is hell-bound? If he believes Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (KJV) then he should definitely believe that Catholics are Christians because they confess that they believe that very thing every week! (It’s possible that some of them are lying but that’s for God to judge, not us.)
3. In John 20, who was it that Jesus breathed on? Everyone or just the apostles? If all Christians are given this power and authority on earth to remit or retain sins in the person of Christ (2 Corinthians 2:10 - And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ), why don’t they?

 

[Verita]

That’s not what I get from reading those scriptures. Thanks for the attempt though. To me it looks like you’re interpreting it the way that you want it to be interpreted. I always wondered why we were taught Catholics aren’t Christians, it’s how you guys interpret Scripture.

My Understanding of that Scripture is that the power was given to Men - not just Priests - who would accept Christ. Otherwise it should have said the power was given to priests.

This person is basing his interpretation entirely on his own opinion (and of course the opinions of those Christians who taught him i.e. his parents and pastor). Catholics base their interpretation on 2000 years of Church teaching straight from Jesus and the Apostles to today. Men died for these beliefs.

Also he’s not being consistent. He just admitting that the scripture indicates power to forgive sins was given to men, but all men. Therefore he should be willing to confess to any Christian.

 

[Verita]

Let’s see, for about 600 years the catholic church was behind the inquisition, and it used it power over the civil government to do this, and as the people’s constitutional rights are taken away from them by congress and the president and as we head for the new world order, you know that the catholic church will want the power it once had. The culdee was formed 36AD, the catholic church was formed in 313 AD. Many times, council after council told the catholic church to leave the Culdee alone, but in one the catholic church killed 1100 preists and bishops of that church. A christian church would plants seeds and tell the truth of the word to bring people to thier church, not by the point of the sword. god gave us free will and we canot exercise fre will if we are in bondage and the catholic would keep in bondage through fear and guilt,with through Jesus we are saved from, which this church does not believe. If Jesus forgives you it’s like it never happened, but not with the catholic church. Better wake up and grow up, time is getting short.

Ask him for his source about the inquisition because his information is just plain wrong. He needs, or you need, to find a reliable, unbiased historical source on that and he will quickly be proven wrong. His assumptions are a little stereotypical. He sees the Catholic Church as an evil, greedy, power hungry institution. Unfortunately, history doesn’t support that. Specifically, this person needs to provide references for his information on the “Culdees”. Does he honestly believe these people were established, at best, a mere 3 years after Jesus’ death? What I read indicated that historical information about the Cele De is scare at best. And nothing was able to provide a starting date for their order. This is just another example of Protestant Anti-Catholic propaganda.

If you are going to bring serious charges against the Church you need to have serious sources. Not only is that how intelligent and honest people debate, it is also just plain Christian charity.

 

[Janet_S]

Thanks for your response, Pixie Dust. I sent it to him, and this is what he said:

Quote:
That’s not what I get from reading those scriptures. Thanks for the attempt though. To me it looks like you’re interpreting it the way that you want it to be interpreted. I always wondered why we were taught Catholics aren’t Christians, it’s how you guys interpret Scripture.

My Understanding of that Scripture is that the power was given to Men - not just Priests - who would accept Christ. Otherwise it should have said the power was given to priests.

Though he’s definitely not ready to sign up for RCIA, he is not quite as anti-Catholic as he was before. Now he is acknowledging that Catholics read Scripture, so that’s a step in the right direction. I think your persistance and sound Biblical information may be making an impact on him, though you will never hear him say it. He may be budging, just an inch away from his anti-Catholic prejudices.

I would respond to him by asking him a question. Ask him how he knows he has the correct interpretation of the Bible and you don’t. Ask him where in the Bible it says that. Tell him you sincerely seek the guidance of the HS before you open the Bible just like he does. Why does the HS guide him but not you? Just leave him with that question and let him think about it.

 

[DylanO]

Well, a couple of things cross my mind.

1. He says, “That’s not what I get” which means he’s got his own personal interpretation of the Biblical text. If he believes that the Holy Spirit leads every individual into an understanding of Scripture then you have just as much a right to your (Catholic) interpretation as he does to his interpretation. The interpretation presented is the way that Christians have understood those passages since the beginning of Christianity. How old is his interpretation?
2. Catholics aren’t Christians because we disagree with his interpretation of Scripture? Does that mean anyone who disagrees with him about any portion of Scripture is hell-bound? If he believes Romans 10:9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (KJV) then he should definitely believe that Catholics are Christians because they confess that they believe that very thing every week! (It’s possible that some of them are lying but that’s for God to judge, not us.)
3. In John 20, who was it that Jesus breathed on? Everyone or just the apostles? If all Christians are given this power and authority on earth to remit or retain sins in the person of Christ (2 Corinthians 2:10 - And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ), why don’t they?

Thanks for your response. PixieDust. I should mention this isn’t the same Protestant I initially made this thread about (i.e. the “Queen of Heaven” and Culdee claims). This is what he said in return:

My Parents weren’t Christians - they thought Christianity was a bunch of Jewish BS; my parents are Deists.

No, not the power to forgive sins - the power to be forgiven.

I went to a Bible College, and in Protestantism - you do not confess to a man - the ability to confess directly to God is one of the main tenets of the Christian faith - but evidently you guys don’t believe you have the right to pray directly to God.

You just lost me with your Catholic mythology.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Thanks for your response. PixieDust. I should mention this isn’t the same Protestant I initially made this thread about (i.e. the “Queen of Heaven” and Culdee claims). This is what he said in return:

Ah, sounds like he has an acute case of RRA (Romish Receptive Aphasia).

What Catholic myth is he lost about? Perhaps I can help clear it up for him! I’m not sure where he found a Catholic myth in the KJV Bible, though. I did notice that he didn’t actually answer any of my questions. (I’m assuming you are copying/pasting.)

 

[mercygate]

I’m debating a Protestant who claims that Catholics “worship” the Virgin Mary and this so-called “worship” is “actually the worship of the goddess Tammuz”. He provided this link: barr-family.com/godsword/queen.htm

I’ve seen this claim before and have seen it refuted but, I can’t seem to find any links that refute it, at this moment. Could someone provide some helpful links?

I’ve read most of this thread and urge you not to dignify this guy by calling him a “Protestant”. No decent, red-blooded Protestant would sit still for this nonsense for half a second!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I’ve read most of this thread and urge you not to dignify this guy by calling him a “Protestant”. No decent, red-blooded Protestant would sit still for this nonsense for half a second!

I think there are several “Protestants” being debated here; but yes, I agree with you about the first one.

 

[DylanO]

One Protestant posted an article claiming that Catholicism isn’t Christian:

by Dean Robinson

Some time ago Presidential candidate George W. Bush made a campaign stop in South Carolina at a prestigious and well-known Christian university known as Bob Jones University. Soon thereafter Bush was “raked over the coals” by the liberal news media for making an appearance at such a right-wing, conservative, narrow-minded, fundamentalist school. One of the issues that was brought up during this time was BJU’s teaching on the subject of Roman Catholicism. It was reported that the school taught in their classroom that Catholicism was a cult. This seemed to irritate many in the media and were demanding from Bush a response to such a position. That which perplexed the media was how anybody could think or believe that Catholicism was not Christian? While I do not endorse everything that BJU believes or teaches, I would have to stand in agreement with their position on the Roman Catholic church.

Due to the ignorance of the average person regarding Catholicism, there is a very tolerant attitude today. Protestants are having dialogue with Catholic leaders and a reunion is more than a possibility. The fact that those who claim to be practicing Catholics are ignorant of the true nature of the system is evidence of its own deceptiveness. Catholicism claims to be Christian. It claims to be the true church of Jesus Christ when in fact it is anti-Christ and anti-Bible. This can be proven from their teaching on the following points.

1. What They Teach About The Pope

The term “pope” was a title claimed by Boniface III in 607 A.D. The word comes from a Latin word “papa” which means father." Other terms are used such as “pontiff” which means: bridge builder, the link between this life and the next. Then there is title “vicar of Christ” – a person authorized to perform the functions of another; substitute in office. Here is what is taught,
according to the Texas Catholic Conference, Department of Religious Education, 1988: “The Pope is the Vicar of Christ, successor of St. Peter and visible head of the church. He takes the place of Christ.”

The pope cannot be the “vicar of Christ,” i.e. His substitute as Head of the church because the Bible plainly declares Jesus Christ to be the Head of the church and no one else: Eph.1:22; 4:15; 5:23; Col.1:18. Even Peter, whom the Catholics claim was the first pope, was not confused as to who was the Head when he wrote: “Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner.” (1 Peter 2:7)

The term “pontiff” is also unscriptural because “there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

By the way, Peter could not have been the first Pope because he was married (Matt.8:14), he refused to be worshipped (Acts 10:25-26), and he was rebuked by the apostle Paul (Gal.2:11). Neither was the N.T. church built upon Peter.

It was established and founded by Jesus Christ, according to Matthew 16:18, who is the Rock (petra). Peter was the “petros”: a little stone, pebble. Peter was but one among many building stones made alive through Christ from which He built His church.

…Continued…