Debating Muslims

Patrick_Joshua · Oct 21, 2010

Hello, I am going to be debating some Muslims in the next few months, I’ve just ordered some books to help me with my research. Although if any my fellow Catholics (Or Non-Catholics) Can provide me with sources to help me with my research.

Our first topic is Christ dying upon the cross, as Catholics we believe Christ died upon the Cross while Muslims deny he died, but was replaced by Judas, does anybody know any other sources apart from the Gospels that can help me with my debate on the Crucifixion?

I would love some information to help me on refuting they claims.

God Bless! :signofcross:

clmowry · Oct 21, 2010

I didn’t know Muslims disputed Christ’s death by Crucifixion?

Chuck

Patrick_Joshua said:
Hello, I am going to be debating some Muslims in the next few months, I’ve just ordered some books to help me with my research. Although if any my fellow Catholics (Or Non-Catholics) Can provide me with sources to help me with my research.

Our first topic is Christ dying upon the cross, does anybody know any other sources apart from the Gospels that can help me with my debate on the Crucifixion?

I would love some information to help me on refuting they claims.

God Bless!

Patrick_Joshua · Oct 21, 2010

They believe it was Judas on the cross. They believe Christ did not die upon the cross, but I will change it abit so people dont get confused.

Big_Dummy · Oct 21, 2010

You should consider If Jesus is God then Muhammad is in Hell because he did not believe that Jesus as fully Man and fully God died for our sins.

As for your question look for thesw Books

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Gary R. Habermas, Michael R. Licona
Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence
Did the Resurrection Happen?: A Conversation with Gary Habermas and Antony Flew (Veritas Forum Books)
Trusting the New Testament James Patrick Holding
The Resurrection of the Son of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Vol. 3) N. T. Wright
The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? F. F. Bruce
Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament Frederick Fyvie Bruce
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Craig L. Blomberg
The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ Gary R. Habermas

answering-islam.org/

scottm · Oct 21, 2010

Patrick_Joshua said:
Hello, I am going to be debating some Muslims in the next few months, …

Don’t do that. You’ll make enemies. You’ll make them not like Christians. That’s totally uncool on your part. Hugely uncool. Bad! You are bad!

Make friends with them instead.

Our first topic is Christ dying upon the cross, as Catholics we believe Christ died upon the Cross while Muslims deny he died, but was replaced by Judas, does anybody know any other sources apart from the Gospels that can help me with my debate on the Crucifixion?

The Koran doesn’t say that it was Judas. That’s just someone’s make-believe tradition. I don’t remember Judas even being mentioned in the Koran. But here’s a lot of info for you:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7102479

Post 191 and 208 on how the Koran says Jesus is special.
Post 209 on the non-negotiable essentials for Islam and Christianity.
Post 64 on the attitude one should have toward interpretting the Koran.
Post 134 on similarities between Koran and Bible.
Post 135-137 and 186 and 189 on how to actually reconcile the Koran with the Bible so that the two religions are the same.
Posts 140 and 148 on what not to do.
Post 164 on a common argument that Moslems make.

I would love some information to help me on refuting they claims.

Get to know their point of view. See the world through their eyes. Only when you can “speak their language” will you be able to change their minds. A good book in that journey is What Islam Is All About by Yahiya Emerick.

challam2010 · Oct 21, 2010

I read Inside Islam, A Guide For Catholics by Daniel Ali (a former Muslim) and Robert Spencer. (Available at Amazon)

Because I was so unfamiliar with the subject, I took their words at face value as they dissected parts of the Koran, but the tone of the book was VERY anti-Muslim, very confrontational, very militant and extremist, in my opinion. I have no way of knowing if what they said is the truth or heavily anti-Muslim biased.

Just FWIW.

Thoma25 · Oct 21, 2010

Good luck with that; you’ll need it. Seriously. In my experience, the average Muslim-on-the-street knows as much about Islam as the average Catholic does about Catholicism: very little. Because they know so little about their own faith, they’re usually not open to rational argument: they’re set, and that’s that.

It would probably be more fruitful to focus your efforts on Protestants; at least they’re roughly in the ballpark, having taken the elements of their faith from Catholicism even if the final result is erroneous. Then you’re seeking to bring about unity and lessen the influence of heresy, which is a commendable act of charity.

FCEGM · Oct 21, 2010

Patrick_Joshua said:
Hello, I am going to be debating some Muslims in the next few months, I’ve just ordered some books to help me with my research. Although if any my fellow Catholics (Or Non-Catholics) Can provide me with sources to help me with my research.

Our first topic is Christ dying upon the cross, as Catholics we believe Christ died upon the Cross while Muslims deny he died, but was replaced by Judas, does anybody know any other sources apart from the Gospels that can help me with my debate on the Crucifixion?

I would love some information to help me on refuting they claims.

God Bless!

Patrick_Joshua · Oct 21, 2010

Don’t do that. You’ll make enemies. You’ll make them not like Christians. That’s totally uncool on your part. Hugely uncool. Bad! You are bad!

Make friends with them instead.

Don’t worry, two of them I grew up with, they went to my Catholic school and we are pretty decent friends. The debate will be in a friendly manner, we both don’t want to be insulting each other or making enemies, we all of respect for each others believes.

scottm · Oct 21, 2010

Patrick_Joshua said:
Don’t worry, two of them I grew up with, they went to my Catholic school and we are pretty decent friends. The debate will be in a friendly manner, we both don’t want to be insulting each other or making enemies, we all of respect for each others believes.

Well in that case, the three of you need to sit down together over dinner or beer or lunch or whatever, and work through first that book What Islam Is All About by Yahiya Emerick, and then after that everything in those posts I linked you to. You’re going to have a mind-blowing excellent time, and you’ll come out of it even better friends!

Suh-weeet!

motoeric · Oct 22, 2010

If their premise is that Judas was substituted for Christ on the Cross you may want to consider bringing into play the question of the competency of the Romans.

Give them their due, they were highly efficient. They were certainly not likely to crucify the wrong man, especially when that man was who led the authorities to Jesus to start with.

Eric

Windfish · Oct 22, 2010

Big_Dummy said:
You should consider If Jesus is God then Muhammad is in Hell because he did not believe that Jesus as fully Man and fully God died for our sins.

As for your question look for thesw Books

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Gary R. Habermas, Michael R. Licona
Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence
Did the Resurrection Happen?: A Conversation with Gary Habermas and Antony Flew (Veritas Forum Books)
Trusting the New Testament James Patrick Holding
The Resurrection of the Son of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Vol. 3) N. T. Wright
The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? F. F. Bruce
Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament Frederick Fyvie Bruce
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Craig L. Blomberg
The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ Gary R. Habermas

answering-islam.org/

Hmm, nice book recommendations. I don’t mind if I put them on my wish-list.

panevino · Oct 22, 2010

Qur’an
3:55 God said,“Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me: I will purify you of the disbelievers. To the Day of Resurection I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieved.…”…

3:45…Mary, god gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the messiah, Jesus…

But given 4:157 i don’t see how they would accept crucifixion

5:73-75 seems to include Mary as part of the trinity?

clmowry · Oct 22, 2010

It would appear that some english translations have already cleared up any possible “missconceptions” your muslim friends might take away from this verse.

3:55. And (remember) when Allâh said: “O ‘Îsâ (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that ‘Îsâ (Jesus) is Allâh’s son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allâh) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allâh, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, ‘Îsâ (Jesus), Mûsâ (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurât (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur’ân] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute.”

panevino said:
Qur’an
3:55 God said,“Jesus, I will take you back and raise you up to Me: I will purify you of the disbelievers. To the Day of Resurection I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieved.…”…

3:45…Mary, god gives you news of a Word from Him, whose name will be the messiah, Jesus…

But given 4:157 i don’t see how they would accept crucifixion

5:73-75 seems to include Mary as part of the trinity?

Patrick_Joshua · Oct 22, 2010

Originally Posted by Big Dummy View Post
You should consider If Jesus is God then Muhammad is in Hell because he did not believe that Jesus as fully Man and fully God died for our sins.

As for your question look for thesw Books

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Gary R. Habermas, Michael R. Licona
Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence
Did the Resurrection Happen?: A Conversation with Gary Habermas and Antony Flew (Veritas Forum Books)
Trusting the New Testament James Patrick Holding
The Resurrection of the Son of God (Christian Origins and the Question of God, Vol. 3) N. T. Wright
The New Testament Documents: Are they Reliable? F. F. Bruce
Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament Frederick Fyvie Bruce
The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Craig L. Blomberg
The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ Gary R. Habermas

Big thanks!

Debating Muslims

Patrick_Joshua

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FCEGM

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