Debating the Gay Marriage Issue. Need help!

[Ghosty]

I consider myself a fairly conservative Catholic, and I’m really not troubled by secular homosexual marriages. Yes, I believe absolutely in the sanctity of marriage, but the secular marriage has nothing to do with the Sacramental marriage. The secular world allows divorce between validly married people, why on Earth should we Catholics take it seriously? They aren’t beating down our doors forcing us to hold Marriage Masses for homosexuals.

Secular homosexual marriage does not damage our lives any more than sexual promiscuity on television, or atheism advanced in schools. I think it’s time we Catholics stop looking towards the secular world as some kind of model for morality; the time of Catholic governments is largely over, espescially in the developed world. Arguments against homosexual marriage hold no water in a secular debate, period, and it saddens me to see so many Catholics spinning their wheels trying to convince the public of that. We might as well push for the Eucharist to be constitutionally recognized as the Real Presence while we’re at it

 

[fix]

Ghosty:

I consider myself a fairly conservative Catholic, and I’m really not troubled by secular homosexual marriages. Yes, I believe absolutely in the sanctity of marriage, but the secular marriage has nothing to do with the Sacramental marriage. The secular world allows divorce between validly married people, why on Earth should we Catholics take it seriously? They aren’t beating down our doors forcing us to hold Marriage Masses for homosexuals.

Actually, they are beating down the doors and requesting homsexual “marriage”. We should be against it beacuse it is the truth. Why say 2+2=5 when we know 2+2=4?

Secular homosexual marriage does not damage our lives any more than sexual promiscuity on television, or atheism advanced in schools.

Yes, it does. All those things help destroy our culture and our souls. Every sin, or good deed, public or private, affects the mystical body of Christ.

Arguments against homosexual marriage hold no water in a secular debate, period, and it saddens me to see so many Catholics spinning their wheels trying to convince the public of that.

The natural law forbids such perverted unions. People of good will everywhere should condemn them.

 

[Jennifer123]

It is not “Christians” that ask this, it is Christ Himself. I don’t think any rational heterosexual would think this is an easy task, but it is their cross to bear, and we all have our own crosses. Yes, this is a burden, but it can be done. Look at our priesthood. Sexual intimacy does not define us as human beings, it is an urge that can be controlled - it is not a right, it is a wonderful priveledge given us by our Lord for the purpose of building His kingdom. “Evil” does seem like a harsh word, especially in today’s society that disdains any sort of “judgement”, but it is what it is, it is an act that “perverts” the truly beautiful gift of creation which allows a man and a woman to work directly with God to bring His new life into the world.

Therefore I don’t think they can just train themselves in some way into becoming heterosexual.

Sorry I cut the statement before this off unintentionally. But there is no direct evidence that homosexuality is entirely genetic, and even the Church doesn’t claim to know or want to know what “causes” it, although research seems to favor a combo of genetic and behavioral. (I reference the work of Fr. John Hardon, PhD) Even if it is genetic, it doesn’t give license to the behavior. There are many things that are inherited, and as a society we still condemn the behavior: the “obesity” gene, the “alcoholism” gene, the “criminal” gene, etc. Homosexuality is yes, a disorder, that doesn’t allow gays to fully express themselves and experience full humanity. To believe otherwise and condone it is really quite unfortunate since it leads them further into a lifestyle that is damaging to them and to society.

For the homosexuals that remain celebate, they are carrying a cross of a magnitue that the majority of us hopefully will never have to. For those that succumb, my heart and prayers goes out to them.

Yes indeed, they are worthy of our prayers. They need them so much! But what they really need now is the Truth.

Many Christians seem to find it easy to look negatively, as opposed to compassionately on our homosexual brothers and sisters in Christ. (I’m not refering to this thread, just generally speaking). When I witness this I feel shame and sorrow.

It is most unfortunate. I too cringe when I see horrible signs held up by other Christians condemming them to hell and all that. Ironically, the institution they seem to think “beats them down” the most, The Catholic Church, is the institution that is giving them the most compassion by continuing to proclaim the Truth, and its teachings, if properly understood and followed by all Catholics, would give them great sympathy and comfort.

 

[Racer_X]

CatholicEducation.org has many articles on homosexuality and gay marriage here:
catholiceducation.org/directory/Current_Issues/Homosexuality/

 

[Jennifer123]

Mijoy2:

I agree, that to be true to God the homosexual must remain celebate for a lifetime with no hope EVER of human intimacy.

But human intimacy doesn’t necessarily mean sex. That is so 21st century - to think that if one can’t have sex that they are biologically disordered, and that is a lie we are sold every day on TV, in magazines, etc. It is a choice for everyone, regardless of faith and for every choice there is consequences. What we are saying is that the homosexual’s choice to have sex has consequences for themselves and for the rest of society as is the nature of sin, it affects us all. Gays have to have self-control and must make a choice of whether to engage on the act or not as we all do, if they don’t or can’t then there’s compulsion and that’s not normal.

I think it is the attitude of some Christians that gets my goat, not the doctrine itself.

Indeed

 

[Jennifer123]

Ghosty:

I consider myself a fairly conservative Catholic, and I’m really not troubled by secular homosexual marriages. Yes, I believe absolutely in the sanctity of marriage, but the secular marriage has nothing to do with the Sacramental marriage. The secular world allows divorce between validly married people, why on Earth should we Catholics take it seriously? They aren’t beating down our doors forcing us to hold Marriage Masses for homosexuals.

Secular homosexual marriage does not damage our lives any more than sexual promiscuity on television, or atheism advanced in schools. I think it’s time we Catholics stop looking towards the secular world as some kind of model for morality; the time of Catholic governments is largely over, espescially in the developed world. Arguments against homosexual marriage hold no water in a secular debate, period, and it saddens me to see so many Catholics spinning their wheels trying to convince the public of that. We might as well push for the Eucharist to be constitutionally recognized as the Real Presence while we’re at it

I’m not going to try to answer all that needs “correcting” in this post as it’s off topic. But here’s a good article from Envoy Magazine that addresses secular marriage and why we do have the right to advocate for “traditional” marriage:

envoymagazine.com/planetenvoy/072604-TheKnotThatCantBeTied-Full.htm

 

[AlanFromWichita]

ThomasWR:

Hello, I am a practicing Catholic and I love my faith. I am involved in a gay marriage debate on another forum. I’m feeling a little overwhelmed since I appear to be the only one there who believes in the sanctity of marriage. My posts are pretty quickly rebutted with the usual secular ramblings and selective Bible quotes.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Supporters of gay marriage either do not know or care about what the Bible or Church teaches, or their translation is way different than any I’ve seen. Therefore, our arguments make no sense to them unless we base them on something they care about.

Making use of some over-generalizations, observe that most gay marriage proponents are politically “liberal,” and as such consider themselves champions of diversity, many of them are feminists or feminist sympathizers, and many think rich people should pay more taxes.

To the first point, simply observe that homosexual marriage, by definition, is completely devoid of diversity. I believe homosexuals are actually afraid to partner with someone who is different. Maybe we need to make up a new name for them, such as “diversiphobes.”

Feminists have told us for decades that no viable institution can be run without women sharing the helm. Logically, then, they must oppose gay marriage to prevent family units – our most important institution – from being possibly run by men only.

As far as taxes, if we disregard human biology in the marriage equation, what’s to stop marriage within a family? When a rich person dies, his or her child could marry the surviving spouse (after all, they want marriage to be defined as a union between any two adults who love each other) and in most states transfer all their wealth without paying inheritance tax.

I hope this helps.
Alan.