Debating with protestants who just won't listen

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Do you understand? Hold fast to both

Who did Paul get that from? The HS. Where did the HS get that from to teach Paul? It was from Jesus

… I am totally aware of this passage and have dealt with it on this site.

you don’t deal with anything. You deny using your uninformed opinion backed up by your uninformed opinion

tgGodsway:

What the CC produces today as, quote “tradition” is not that of the oral tradition passed among the Apostles when they were alive.

Wrong! And I’ve proven many times already how wrong you are and you know you’re wrong. Look who you’re following. Calvin the heretic. And you presume to lecture ANY Catholic on true apostolic tradition?

tgGodsway:

the CC goes WAY beyond biblical traditions of Paul and Peter’s day. So that by their ‘tradition’ the N.T. voice stays alive and evolves through oral decree. In other words, God is still speaking way beyond the close of the book of Revelation.

Jesus said He would speak through His Church. You’re following Calvin. Like Luther, both left the Catholic Church. Calvin for all we know, could be screaming his head off in hell also for his heresies.

tgGodsway:

The most unconvincing part of this, is the blatant mistakes and contradictions made by these oral traditions. These were contradiction to the word of God itself made in each decree. Such as, and I’ve mentioned before, the doctrine of Mary with her sinless birth, life, death, and resurrection. It is an embarrassing blunder in my view.

These kind of things only confirm Jesus teaching to treat tradition as secondary to inspired scripture because of it’s weak and unreliable nature, not to mention one’s disobedience to that message. Remember, the holy Spirit makes no claim to inspire tradition. This should be troubling to any serious student of Christ and what does it say about those who fought for it as a doctrine?

In 2000 years, The Catholic Church has never taught heresy.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

You’ve been on the outside ever since you left.

tgGodsway:

I’ve never left Christ and I’ve never left the Church. I have always been a stone in God’s universal and divine building. Your perception of me is simply an opinion.

You admitted you’re a reformed Protestant. That means you follow CALVIN NOT JESUS

 

[tgGodsway]

you don’t deal with anything. You deny using your uninformed opinion backed up by your uninformed opinion

and that my friend, is your opinion.

 

[steve-b]

But Paul was right when he admitted that the Church doesn’t see all things correctly. …The church is not infallible. Paul said, "We know in part and prophesy in part… 1st. Cor. 13:9 … for now we see in a mirrow dimly, but then face to face… Now I know in part… but then… I shall know just as I also am known. v12

“8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

IOW, in the end, faith and hope are gone. They are Not needed. We see things as they are. People in heaven, don’t need faith and hope any longer. It’s just love.

Obviously Paul isn’t talking about the damned. For THEM, there is no faith hope OR charity. Just misery to big to get one’s head around

tgGodsway:

This is why just the Church alone is not enough. When the church gets it wrong, we still have inspired scripture which never gets it wrong. The Holy Spirit will teach us all things…
But the Church is not just a noun… it is a verb… We are called to take the gospel public and preach the kingdom of God. No… I’ve never been on the outside after conversion. I am an insider all the way.

I can see you are a devoted Calvinist. He was on the outside and so are you.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

you don’t deal with anything. You deny using your uninformed opinion backed up by your uninformed opinion

and that my friend, is your opinion.

Hardly. All one has to do is look at your posts. You quote no one other than yourself.

My posts to you have been swamped with links from scripture, ECF’s, Church documents, etc all properly referenced. That is NOT my opinion I give. You won’t even open up the links I give. That’s okay. Others reading this forum will be able to open those links. I’ve done my job. I don’t beat anybody over the head. I give information properly referenced, what anybody does with that, is their business.

 

[tgGodsway]

In 2000 years, The Catholic Church has never taught heresy.

Your statement only shows what Paul warned about. Paul included himself to say that he could get things wrong. This was possible in Paul’s mind. None of the N.T. writers saw themselves exempt from the influence of heretical teaching. Of course they didn’t realize the Holy Spirit recorded their letters. But Paul and others knew and warned the CHURCH about making doctrinal mistakes… He corrected a few. Go research it.

Is the CC superior to that of the founding Apostles and 1st. Century Church writers? when you say, the CC has never taught heresy? You are saying you are of equal par to that of the inspired Apostles?.. Don’t forget Pauls warnings: Let no man think he stand, lest he fall. … Let no man glory in men… 1st. Cor. 3:21

The only reason why the Apostles were correct and flawless in their doctrine was because the Holy Spirit came upon them and inspired their writings and thoughts. Without that inspiration, they were men just like us. They were sinners capable of falling to the influence of false doctrine.

But does the Holy Spirit continue to voice new revelations today through the papacy?.. If He does, then YES… the CC in incapable of teaching heresy, at least through the decrees. But all of this is hyperbole.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

In 2000 years, The Catholic Church has never taught heresy.

Your statement only shows what Paul warned about. Paul included himself to say that he could get things wrong. This was possible in Paul’s mind. None of the N.T. writers saw themselves exempt from the influence of heretical teaching Of course they didn’t realize the Holy Spirit recorded their letters. But Paul and others knew and warned the CHURCH about making doctrinal mistakes…

Paul warned us [the Church of Rome] , in advance about people who divide. Rom 16:17-20 RSVCE - Final Instructions - I appeal to you, - Bible Gateway

I have some sobering news for you. Paul only warned people twice. After that he had nothing to do with them, knowing such people who rejected truth after 2 admonishments, were perverted, sinfull and self condemned. Titus 3:10-11 RSVCE - As for a man who is factious, after - Bible Gateway

tgGodsway:

He corrected a few. Go research it.

Paul corrected actions. Those who didn’t follow directions from the apostles.

tgGodsway:

Is the CC superior to that of the founding Apostles and 1st. Century Church writers? when you say, the CC has never taught heresy? You are saying you are of equal par to that of the inspired Apostles?.. Don’t forget Pauls warnings: Let no man think he stand, lest he fall. … Let no man glory in men… 1st. Cor. 3:21

Paul wrote 2 letters to the Corinthians. Meant for correction. Clement of Rome, 3rd pope of Rome from Peter while the Church in Rome was under severe persecution, wrote to the Church of Corinth, because their bishops were in sedition. (John the apostle is still alive,). Like Paul, Clement wrote a letter of correction to the Church in Corinth. I know you won’t read his letter, but I offer it so that others who are interested, can read it, http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

tgGodsway:

The only reason why the Apostles were correct and flawless in their doctrine was because the Holy Spirit came upon them and inspired their writings and thoughts. Without that inspiration, they were men just like us. They were sinners capable of falling to the influence of false doctrine.

Protestantism is a witness to the success of false doctrines, that Satan’s sifting them like wheat produced.

tgGodsway:

But does the Holy Spirit continue to voice new revelations today through the papacy?.. If He does, then YES… the CC in incapable of teaching heresy, at least through the decrees. But all of this is hyperbole.

Keep telling yourself that. You have to believe that because you can’t see past the Protestant revolt / heresies.

As for me

Jesus promised not even the gates of hell will prevail against His Church that He builds on Peter and those in union with Peter. That’s the Catholic Church. All soooooooo easily proved. As I’ve done so many times already, all properly referenced.

 

[jas84173]

Protestantism is tricky because it’s really an umbrella term. There’s so many different beliefs right in it. One would say most likely that Anglicanism and Lutheranism are the closest branches of Protestantism to the Roman Catholic Church. Actually even though on paper the Eastern Orthodox are the most similar to the Roman Catholic Church, since Protestantism stemmed in the west, the Anglicans and Lutherans probably have the most similar services to Catholics and also have liturgical calendars of course with their own people honored. Though Anglicans do believe Catholics are part of a universal family of legit Christians. The problem is they also view all branches of Protestantism as legit. The Anglican calendar will have Catholics and Protestant reformers honored on their calendar.

I would say it’s the reformed churches and evangelicals and Baptists who are the hardest to have any dialogue with. Many are taught from birth that the Catholic Church is basically Satan.

 

[steve-b]

This verse is easy peasy. … Jesus is preaching His sermon the mount. He was preaching to God’s people about doing things God’s way. The nation of Israel had not had the voice of God since Malachi.

Jesus told His people, “Enter by the narrow gate…” Question: Since He used a metaphor, how shall we interpret it?.. What does this metaphorical narrow gate and difficult path represent and on what bases do we arrive at our conclusions?

Traditionally, both protestant and catholic interpretations conclude how the narrow gate and difficult path were about a journey to eternal life.

But unjustifiably in most reformed views. One obvious reason is because it didn’t actually say so. Seeing that words matter, the key word here is the word life. We know Jesus made a distinction between having LIFE, and having it more abundantly. Such a distinction should not be unreasonable here.

In this passage we have a metaphor about a narrow gate and a difficult path. Was Jesus giving us the game-plan to obtaining eternal life? If so, he easy could have done it by saying … “narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to ETERNAL life.” Surely the holy Spirit could have used this kind of easy solution if this is what He really wanted to say.

By forcing the metaphor to mean an eternal pathway without the actual word on the page, we have actually “read-into” the passage an idea not actually in the passage. We have manipulated the author’s intent.

So what are we left with?.. if he didn’t mean eternal life then what does the gate and difficult way represent?..

Since the gospel of Matthew really offers no call to eternal life contained, we can safely find another solution. Could the narrow gate and difficult way be about DISCIPLESHIP? …

The Journey from point A to point B requires a difficult commitment… Jesus said, if you want to be my disciple you must “hate your own father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes and even your own life, (otherwise) you cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26. This is just one of a few conditions for discipleship. It is a hyperbole but the point is clear… it is a difficult pathway leading to LIFE.

Whether it’s heaven or hell, we are immortal. We live forever, it depends on where forever is for each person… either heaven or hell.

There is no metaphor here

Life, narrow road, the saved, = heaven = everlasting happiness

Wide road, Death, the damned, = hell = everlasting suffering

Both places are everlasting for the soul in each place

The saved are few, meaning everyone else is not Luke 13:23-28 , Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway

Why only a few are saved? Jesus said, because wickedness is multiplied, most mens love will grow cold. Those who endure to the end (the few) are saved.
Mt 24:12-14, Matthew 24:12-14 RSVCE - And because wickedness is multiplied, - Bible Gateway

 

[tgGodsway]

That’s the Catholic Church. All soooooooo easily proved. As I’ve done so many times already, all properly refe

Protestantism is a witness to the success of false doctrines, that Satan’s sifting them like wheat produced.

O’ steve steve steve… You make such a good argument, but, guilt by association won’t work here. We are not false teachers. We believe Jesus Christ is the only begotten eternal Son of God who will come to judge the living and dead. He is God come in flesh and therefore past the biblical test. see 1st. John 4:1,2. We embrace this essential truth and proclaim it from the mountain tops. Heresy teachers, on the other hand deny the person of Christ. So, your pathetic guilt by association tactic is shameful and sad.

The Protestant Reformation was a divinely ordained movement that caught the CC by surprise. I think we can use more reformations like it. Many protestant groups today have forgotten what the fight was all about too. They now share the guilt of drifting away from the scriptures. A reformation is a good way to do self examination. It is healthy and good.

But the Spirit of the Lord was not only in the reformation, but mandated it.
The C Church was like the sickly titanic ship, off course and with no biblical hunger in sight. The selling of indulgences and other abuses sprang from a foundation of false doctrine that entered the Church years prior.

But God rose up people like Luther and Calvin and so many others to start a much needed 180 degree turn about.

But those who insist on forcing the ship to remain on it’s present course, now have no choice. God’s Church is marching on despite the narrow view of Catholicism. And God will not allow his Church to be put in a box, limited by those who demand control by spouting Peter’s succession.

Wake up! and realize the world is going to hell in a hand basket and all you can think about is whether or not protestants will quote come home. The notion is almost insane.

 

[guanophore]

It AMAZES me that protestants cannot see the sheer chaos brought out of the protestant revolt…it ultimately is even the source of many cults, such as the JWs and Mormons…the JWs, SDAs, etc arose from the 19th century “great awakening” where people set dates for the return of Christ, the Millerites saying it was 1844, the JWs setting various dates. The SDA sect even arose because of the failed 1844 prophecy of William Miller!

To be fair, most Protestants and Evangelicals have no knowledge of their family history.

I just don’t see any other explanation for the way heretics respond when presented with the Christian truth and faith (meaning Catholic, of course.)

Most of those who embrace heresies were raised in them, and cannot be faulted for it.

Heresy is very hard to root out of the soul of a person infected by it, I have seen that firsthand. Its like trying to get dye out of a fabric once it has set.

Indeed!

Christ has finished speaking at the close of the N.T. revelation. He will not speak again until he stands up from His thrown and returns to earth.

We thank God that this is not true. Although we will agree that the public revelation by God of Himself was completed at the close of the Apostolic age, we are fortunate that Jesus still speaks to His Church, and has not abandoned us.

The Councils ratify the once for all Divine Deposit of Faith that is infallibly protected by the HS in the Church.

Seriously, though. Do you really believe that Jesus no longer communicates to mankind?

It begins to make more sense why the children of the Reformers must create their own doctrines and interpret apart from the Sacred Tradition. If they really believe that Jesus is no longer the Head of the Church, He is an absentee landlord, and they must fend for themselves!

 

[guanophore]

we believe he does too, but it is not the Church primarily who He speaks through, because the Church “sees through a glass darkly…” But He does continue to speak through His inspired word called the N.T.

On the contrary, it is individuals who see through the glass darkly. The Church does not because she has Jesus as her Head and the HS as her Soul, and therefore, is a divine Source.

But we will agree that He speaks through the Holy Scriptures, not just the NT but ALL the scriptures.

"The Word of God. “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” Heb. 4:1234:

And for those who have received the Apostolic faith, the Word of God resides as well in Sacred Tradition.

I am totally aware of this passage and have dealt with it on this site. What the CC produces today as, quote “tradition” is not that of the oral tradition passed among the Apostles when they were alive.

How do you figure that?

the CC goes WAY beyond biblical traditions of Paul and Peter’s day

Well, one has to keep in mind that their “bible” was the Septuagint. When they referred to the Scriptures, it was all OT. So yes, the Sacred Traditions established for the Church by the Apostles were not only an addition to the OT, but were on par with the NT, which was produced from those Sacred Traditions.

In other words, God is still speaking way beyond the close of the book of Revelation.

Those who have received the Apostolic faith (Catholic and Orthodox) agree that the public revelation by God of Himself ended with the death of the last Apostle. God does still speak to us, through the HS, who was sent to guide the Church into “all Truth”.

These were contradiction to the word of God itself made in each decree. Such as, and I’ve mentioned before, the doctrine of Mary with her sinless birth, life, death, and resurrection. It is an embarrassing blunder in my view.

It may seem like a contradiction to you, tgG, since you are lacking the part of the Word of God that is preserved infallibly in the Church by the Holy Spirit (Sacred Tradition).

The Church does not teach that Mary was “resurrected” . She is a creature, and therefore, had to be assumed.

The problem, here, tgG, is that your argument is not just with the RCC. You would have to find some way to disqualify the Orthodox as well, as they share the same Sacred Tradition, yet do not have a pope, or the councils that were convened in the West.

You keep saying that you are not “protesting” the CC, yet you make statements like this about “blatant mistakes and contradictions” and “embarrassing blunders”. It sure seems like a lot of protesting to me!

 

[guanophore]

These kind of things only confirm Jesus teaching to treat tradition as secondary to inspired scripture because of it’s weak and unreliable nature, not to mention one’s disobedience to that message. Remember, the holy Spirit makes no claim to inspire tradition. This should be troubling to any serious student of Christ and what does it say about those who fought for it as a doctrine?

What the Church teaches, received from the Apostles, is contrary to how you have learned to interpret the Scriptures, so it appears inconsistent to you. But the Word of God cannot contradict itself, which is why there is no discrepancy between the Sacred Tradition and the NT text. The NT was formed out of the Sacred Tradition.

I’ve never left Christ and I’ve never left the Church. I have always been a stone in God’s universal and divine building. Your perception of me is simply an opinion.

One that seems to contradict what the CC actually teaches.

But Paul was right when he admitted that the Church doesn’t see all things correctly. …The church is not infallible. Paul said, "We know in part and prophesy in part… 1st. Cor. 13:9 … for now we see in a mirrow dimly, but then face to face… Now I know in part… but then… I shall know just as I also am known. v12

Paul was talking about individuals, not the infallible Church. The Church has Jesus as her Head, and the Holy Spirit as her soul. How then can she see darkly?

But God has not even revealed all things to the Church, only that which we need to sojourn through this life.

This is why just the Church alone is not enough. When the church gets it wrong, we still have inspired scripture which never gets it wrong.

Individuals can make mistakes, but not the Divine Source that inhabits the Church. I agree, inspired Scripture “never gets it wrong”, but it is the myriad of interpretations, as common as belly buttons, that can be wrong. What you assert contradicts the Scriptures:

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” I Tim 3:15

Jesus committed the One Faith to the Church (not to a book) and made promises to that Church to lead them into “all truth”.

The Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth, tgG. The emergence of the NT Scriptures did not change that fact.

 

[guanophore]

Your statement only shows what Paul warned about. Paul included himself to say that he could get things wrong. This was possible in Paul’s mind.

Indeed yes. Any individual can get it wrong. It is only by joining with the infallible Church that we can be protected from such error. Paul even taught that he could lose his salvation!

None of the N.T. writers saw themselves exempt from the influence of heretical teaching.

Exactly. This is why it is so important that we submit ourselves to the Pillar and Ground of the Truth (the Church).

. But Paul and others knew and warned the CHURCH about making doctrinal mistakes

No, he warned about individuals making them. On the contrary, He taught that the Church was the pillar and Ground of the Truth, the fullness of God in Christ.

Is the CC superior to that of the founding Apostles and 1st. Century Church writers? when you say, the CC has never taught heresy?

The CC is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets. The Church cannot teach heresy because Jesus cannot teach heresy,and He is the Head of the One Church, His Body.

The only reason why the Apostles were correct and flawless in their doctrine was because the Holy Spirit came upon them and inspired their writings and thoughts. Without that inspiration, they were men just like us. They were sinners capable of falling to the influence of false doctrine.

Of course! And that is also the only reason that the Sacred Tradition they entrusted to the Church is infallible. The source of this teaching is the Holy Spirit, who cannot err.

But does the Holy Spirit continue to voice new revelations today through the papacy?..

No. The Church believes that the public revelation by God of Himself was closed with the death of the last Apostle. What the HS does today is to guide the Church into all Truth, by showing how the once for all divine deposit of faith is applied in the present age.

If He does, then YES… the CC in incapable of teaching heresy, at least through the decrees.

This is an absurd statement. If the Holy spirit was giving new revelation, then it is heresy? I think the hyperbole has gone over the cliff here!

 

[guanophore]

Heresy teachers, on the other hand deny the person of Christ.

This is only one heresy, one common when the passage was written. There are many heresies, a great many of them emanating from the Reformation.

The Protestant Reformation was a divinely ordained movement that caught the CC by surprise.

I think that you must cling to this view, so that you can continue to protest the Apostolic faith. But it was not so much a “surprise”. One can read the book of Jude and see the handwriting on the wall a long time ago. Perhaps politically and economically many Catholics were taken by surprise.

I think we can use more reformations like it. Many protestant groups today have forgotten what the fight was all about too.

Although you say that you are no longer protesting, you seem to be furthering the agenda of the reformers, and it is clear that you have not “forgotten what the fight was all about” as you are continuing it quite vigorously.

A reformation is a good way to do self examination. It is healthy and good.

I think you have confused rebellion with the examination of conscience.

But the Spirit of the Lord was not only in the reformation, but mandated it.

The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself, so the spirit that fomented the Reformation was not the same one that ensouls the Church.

The C Church was like the sickly titanic ship, off course and with no biblical hunger in sight.

You seem to have a very warped view of the CC prior to the Reformation. I don’t doubt that there were then, as there are now, some Catholics that fit this description. But you seem to forget that all the original reformers were Catholic. Obviously they had a great deal of biblical hunger.

The selling of indulgences and other abuses sprang from a foundation of false doctrine that entered the Church years prior.

Again you seem to have a warped perception of Catholic doctrine, which makes it clear that an indulgence cannot be “sold”. People who were engaged in practices contrary to the Church teaching does not amount to the Church teaching false doctrine. I think you have a deficient concept of the Church, as you cannot seem to separate the sinful persons who are attached to her from the divine elements that make her infallible.

But God rose up people like Luther and Calvin and so many others to start a much needed 180 degree turn about.

Perhaps so. God allows evil that greater good may come:

“But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized!” I Cor. 11:19

It is evident that the fruit of the Reformation is division, not unity, and this fruit continues to be produced.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

That’s the Catholic Church. All soooooooo easily proved. As I’ve done so many times already, all properly refe

Protestantism is a witness to the success of false doctrines, that Satan’s sifting them like wheat produced.

O’ steve steve steve… You make such a good argument, but, guilt by association won’t work here.

Denial isn’t a defense.

tgGodsway:

We are not false teachers. We believe Jesus Christ is the only begotten eternal Son of God who will come to judge the living and dead. He is God come in flesh and therefore past the biblical test. see 1st. John 4:1,2. We embrace this essential truth and proclaim it from the mountain tops. Heresy teachers, on the other hand deny the person of Christ. So, your pathetic guilt by association tactic is shameful and sad.

I don’t set the rules. I don’t set the consequences

You don’t have a problem with me, you have a problem with my sources.
You are a Calvinist by your own admission. You left the Catholic Church by your own admission. Jesus is NOT your Lord. If He was you wouldn’t have left Him.

tgGodsway:

The Protestant Reformation was a divinely ordained movement that caught the CC by surprise.

Satan divides on this side of eternity. God divides later.

tgGodsway:

I think we can use more reformations like it. Many protestant groups today have forgotten what the fight was all about too. They now share the guilt of drifting away from the scriptures. A reformation is a good way to do self examination. It is healthy and good.

Satan has divided.

tgGodsWay:

But the Spirit of the Lord was not only in the reformation, but mandated it.

As I said Satan divides

tgGodsway:

The C Church was like the sickly titanic ship, off course and with no biblical hunger in sight. The selling of indulgences and other abuses sprang from a foundation of false doctrine that entered the Church years prior.

Jesus, looking forward in time, said few are saved. The CC is Our Lord’s Church. Protestantism is a conglomerate of heresies. And we know what happens to people in heresy and remain so

tgGodsway:

But God rose up people like Luther and Calvin and so many others to start a much needed 180 degree turn about.

God doesn’t divide His own Church.

Those 2 knew the warnings about leaving the Catholic Church from scripture.

Unless you know differently,

1. they died separated from the Church.
2. They died without the sacraments.
3. They then died in mortal sin.

tgGodsway:

God’s Church is marching on despite the narrow view of Catholicism.

God’s Church is the Catholic Church

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

Seriously, though. Do you really believe that Jesus no longer communicates to mankind?

Well, we believe He continues to do so and that the Church is His main instrument for that purpose.

we believe he does too, but it is not the Church primarily who He speaks through, because the Church “sees through a glass darkly…” But He does continue to speak through His inspired word called the N.T.

The New Testament Scripture identifies Tradition as the NT:

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

You see what that’s saying, right? When we drink the Cup of the Eucharist, we renew our Covenant with God.

Where does Scripture describe itself as the New Testament?

 

[De_Maria]

This is why just the Church alone is not enough.

Who has ever said anything about the “Church alone”? Except you?

When the church gets it wrong, we still have inspired scripture which never gets it wrong.

The inspired Scripture contains no error, because the Church was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write it infallibly. The Holy Spirit has not stopped inspiring the Church to Teach infallibly.

The Holy Spirit will teach us all things…

That’s what all Protestants say. But they have more than 20,000 competing denominations all contradicting each other on important doctrines.

But the Catholic Church continues to exist from the time of Christ, teaching what Christ commanded and will continue to do so, until the end of time.

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

 

[De_Maria]

Oh my goodness… it begins with a concept. What is the concept? … that divine revelation comes ONLY through inspired scripture.

So, when Jesus walked and talked with the Apostles, He did not, at that time, make any divine revelations?

Yet, I’m not aware that He wrote any Scripture.

That divine revelation does not come from any other source.

Then, I guess Jesus wasted three years of Teaching the Apostles.

The CC argues from silence on these points. Here’s what I mean. We both know the passage that says, "all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine, for reproof… etc. "

Sure. Let’s look at it in detail.

All Scripture is inspired. That is Catholic Doctrine. But what do those words mean? Do they mean that Scripture fell out of the sky?

No. They mean that men of God were inspired to write Scripture. Who were these men? Men of the Catholic Church.

and profitable for doctrine, for reproof Profitable. But not necessary. For what? For someone to use when indoctrinating, teaching, correcting and reproving the man of God into all good works.

A book doesn’t do that. A Teacher does. And that Teacher is a member of the Teaching Church. The infallible Teaching Church. The Catholic Church.

 

[steve-b]

tgGodsway:

Oh my goodness… it begins with a concept. What is the concept? … that divine revelation comes ONLY through inspired scripture.

Sure. Let’s look at it in detail.

All Scripture is inspired. That is Catholic Doctrine. But what do those words mean? Do they mean that Scripture fell out of the sky?

No. They mean that men of God were inspired to write Scripture. Who were these men? Men of the Catholic Church.

and profitable for doctrine, for reproof Profitable. But not necessary. For what? For someone to use when indoctrinating, teaching, correcting and reproving the man of God into all good works.

A book doesn’t do that. A Teacher does. And that Teacher is a member of the Teaching Church. The infallible Teaching Church. The Catholic Church.