This points to what was said earlier, there has to be an authority to tell us what scripture means else we become our own Pope are own god.
Two things here. Firstly you know as well as I do that the apostles never caught the Virgin birth and life and death and Resurrection of Mary. Any reformer believe this they didn’t get it from the apostles. Just because you repeated over and over doesn’t mean you can find it in New Testament teaching.
Agreed. The apostle Paul is one of my favorite foundational teachers. I love to ingest all that he has said. So what is your point?
I think you are saying “taught”? While the vast majority of Apostolic teaching is not in the written record, I don’t feel a need to defend them teaching it. At the time, they were focused on the message that Peter gave at Pentecost. It seems pretty clear that Luke was familiar with Mary as the Ark of the Covenant, and he most likely got that from Paul. The Marian doctrines became clarified as a result of heresies about the person of Christ that did not arise until later.
Well, they didn’t get Sunday worship from them either, or the table of contents of the Bible, or the word Trinity. As you can see, they accepted many elements of Sacred Tradition, just as you do.
This is true, but the Catholic faith is not extracted from the text, as is the Reformed faith, so we are not pre-occupied with finding everything that was taught to us from the Apostles within the pages.
It has been pointed out that Paul claimed the role of father to those he brought into the life of faith through the Gospel. If what Jesus said about not calling anyone “father” or “teacher” is to be taken with a literalist mindset, then you have accused the Apostles unjustly.
Well since the word of God is sufficient for doctrine and reproof, and all manner of life, the oral tradition can only confirm and be a carbon copy to all that was said. If it said anything contrary to holy scripture, it then would fall into the category Jesus called “traditions of men.”. This is exactly what has happened within the CC.
So this explains how you process theology. I am under no law to worship on Sunday, I don’t necessarily need a table of context, but why reinvent the wheel and I except the concept of Trinity because it was actually taught in scripture. The Virgin life of Mary and the so-called sinless life is contrary to apostolic teaching as evidenced in the infallible scripture.
Is that your purpose in being here, tgG? Are you calling us all to repentance, because we have not accepted Calvin’s doctrines?
Scripture is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient. If it were, Jesus would not have established a Church, and appointed teachers and overseers. You yourself have admitted that you greatly value the leaders of your community that break open the Word of God for your instruction.
I agree, but as it happens, it is only your perceptions that are contrary.
It is only natural that you would feel this way. You are part of an ecclesial tradition that has been separated from the Apostolic faith for 500 some years. There is bound to be some drift from the original!
No, tgG. These are examples of the Sacred Tradition you accept. They have nothing to do with how I “process theology”.
Of course not! But why do you? Sacred Tradition!
Perhaps you don’t realize how much you need this. There is a reason that the hundreds of other documents floating around were not selected for inclusion. Sacred Tradition! But if, as you say, such a thing does not exist, then how can you trust that Bible you are so fond of using to what us Catholics over the head?
You see it there because you have received the Sacred Tradition that the passages are to be understood in this way. But if it were so clear, then we would not have Oneness Pentecostals and Mormons who read the same text, and understand it differently. We would also not have had the Arian heresy in the early church.
Mary is “ever virgin”, and her only child was Jesus. She led a sinless life just as we all can, by the grace of God.
Yes, we have been there, and done that. He pretty much gave up the argument when it came to light that he could not prove infants and children before the age of reason had sinned.
Don’t be too hard on @tgGodsway. He has been steeped for decades in anti-Catholic doctrine and rhetoric.
I fear that @tgGodsway might think that someone can be “full of grace” and still sin!
Are you really saying that you don’t believe Mary was a virgin when the angle Gabriel came to her? I think you are just trying to answer too many posts too fast!
Surely you are not saying that Mary did not “live” and was not at the foot of the cross when Jesus died?
The Reformers accepted the Teaching that was handed down from the Apostles, that Mary was “ever virgin” and was taken to heaven by Jesus when she completed this life. Do you not expect that you will also go to heaven at the end of this life?
Sadly, I have met some here at CAF. Fundamentalism and bigotry is an equal opportunity affliction.
Totally agree. It is a two way street.
This is a good point. For example, I am familiar with the “golden chain of salvation”, I just don’t agree that this is what the Apostles taught we can all expect, so in my case “listening” does not mean “agreeing”.I think the first problem we might have though is we could start a debate thread on what the phrase “Who just won’t listen” means.