Debunking the effiminate Jesus

[Charlotte408]

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate, wouldnt hurt a fly person…When in actuality he was VERY masculine. They went on about a story, where there were men in a temple trying to sell something…and Jesus got frustrated (something to this effect) and took up a cord and whipped and ran them out.

He wasnt just Mr. Free lovin’ Nice guy…

Can someone please tell me where I can find this story? Or any other examples of how Jesus put his foot down? I’m interested in knowing this side of Him. I’m tired of people saying ‘oh Jesus didnt hate sin’.

Yes He did.

 

[patrick457]

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate, wouldnt hurt a fly person…When in actuality he was VERY masculine. They went on about a story, where there were men in a temple trying to sell something…and Jesus got frustrated (something to this effect) and took up a cord and whipped and ran them out.

He wasnt just Mr. Free lovin’ Nice guy…

Can someone please tell me where I can find this story? Or any other examples of how Jesus put his foot down? I’m interested in knowing this side of Him. I’m tired of people saying ‘oh Jesus didnt hate sin’.

Yes He did.

Oh, they’re talking about the ruckus Jesus caused in the Temple market.

And they come to Jerusalem; and Jesus having gone into the temple began to cast out those selling and buying in the temple, and the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those selling the doves He overturned, and He did not allow anyone to bear wares through the temple. And He was teaching, saying to them, “Has it not been written, ‘My house a house of prayer shall be called, for all the nations;’ but you have made it ‘a den of robbers’!”

-Mark 11:15-17

And the passover of the Judeans was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And He found in the temple those selling oxen, and sheep, and doves, and the money-changers sitting, and having made a whip of cords, He cast all out of the temple, also the sheep, and the oxen; and of the money-changers He poured out the coins, and the tables He overturned, and to those selling the doves He said, “Take these things away from here; make not the house of my Father a house of merchandise!” And His disciples remembered that it is written, “The zeal for your house will devour me.”

-John 2:15-17

And yes, Jesus was hardly always ‘meek and mild’; there are also times in which He does not hesitate to speak rather sharply (Matthew 23, for example).

Perhaps the idea of an effeminate Jesus stems from traditional Western art where He is almost invariably depicted as being a delicate man with unmussed, flowing locks and flawless, almost snow-white skin that is free of grime, sweat and dirt (and bodily hair!) who wore immaculately-spotless clothes that look like they were freshly laundered. Even at His passion, the stereotypical Western Jesus will often show very little blood!

 

[midwestbeliever]

Jesus must have been a big, strong man. Before his public ministry, he was a builder, probably working with heavy stones and wooden beams.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

---

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate, wouldnt hurt a fly person…When in actuality he was VERY masculine. They went on about a story, where there were men in a temple trying to sell something…and Jesus got frustrated (something to this effect) and took up a cord and whipped and ran them out.

He wasnt just Mr. Free lovin’ Nice guy…

Can someone please tell me where I can find this story? Or any other examples of how Jesus put his foot down? I’m interested in knowing this side of Him. I’m tired of people saying ‘oh Jesus didnt hate sin’.

Yes He did.

OK, this disturbs me on so many levels.

First and foremost, why would anyone use the word "effeminate " to describe a man who preached love for God and neighbor above all else?
It is exactly this type of “labeling” that causes so much trouble.
Second, of course Jesus hated sin, think about the story of the adulterous woman, he stops the crowd from stoning her, forgives her sins and tells her, go and sin no more! Look through the Gospels again, everytime Jesus heals someone, he usually says*** “you are forgiven, go and sin no more”***

Yes, there are times when we know through scripture that Jesus gets angry but I would think that this is rather the exception than the rule!

It seems that some have forgotten that that he always admonished the sinner to*** “sin no more”, ***and the others have forgotten that He was more concerned with us loving one another that "enforcing" the law as we see fit!

 

[paperwight]

Jesus must have been a big, strong man. Before his public ministry, he was a builder, probably working with heavy stones and wooden beams.

I agree with you that as a manual worker, especially a carpenter, He would have developed upper body strength, because of using hand-tools, but we are not told He was a builder - why do you think that?

 

[jtodisco]

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate, wouldnt hurt a fly person…When in actuality he was VERY masculine. They went on about a story, where there were men in a temple trying to sell something…and Jesus got frustrated (something to this effect) and took up a cord and whipped and ran them out.

He wasnt just Mr. Free lovin’ Nice guy…

Can someone please tell me where I can find this story? Or any other examples of how Jesus put his foot down? I’m interested in knowing this side of Him. I’m tired of people saying ‘oh Jesus didnt hate sin’.

Yes He did.

Charlotte, one of the best ways you can get to know Jesus is by reading the Bible. In fact I think that is the best place for you to start. You could also pick up a copy of the Catechism as well.

Jesus is God but he is also fully human. By coming down to our level Jesus did humanity a countless number of services (and I’m not just talking about all the healings and miracles he performed during the 30-ish years of the Incarnation). By becoming human Jesus made Himself knowable in a new and wonderful way. We have a hard time trying to wrap our tiny human minds around God and His infinite being, but we can begin to understand God and grow in relationship with Him thanks to Jesus’ coming.

As to your question about Jesus being more manly or more effeminate, again, read the Gospels. Jesus is not so one-sided as to be a purely “manly man” or an “effeminate hippie”. Jesus is God, and in being so He is truly beyond the limited labels we can attach to Him. Jesus had His moments where He demonstrated His awesome power and He had His moments when He showed His amazing tenderness and love.

He is the one who can calm the storms, walk on water, turn over the tables of the money changers, and defeat the evil one with the sword of His mouth. He is also the Good Shepard, the mother hen longing to gather her children, and the one who calls tax collectors, prostitutes, and all manner of sinners to His table to feast with Him.

In the end you are right in your notion that Jesus is “no wimp”, but you must also remember that as God Jesus is Love. He made you and all Creation because He loves you and He loves His Creation. He suffered and died for you for that same Love. And He continues to call to all mankind to Himself out of that same amazing love.

 

[Charlotte408]

---

OK, this disturbs me on so many levels.

First and foremost, why would anyone use the word "effeminate " to describe a man who preached love for God and neighbor above all else?
It is exactly this type of “labeling” that causes so much trouble.
Second, of course Jesus hated sin, think about the story of the adulterous woman, he stops the crowd from stoning her, forgives her sins and tells her, go and sin no more! Look through the Gospels again, everytime Jesus heals someone, he usually says*** “you are forgiven, go and sin no more”***

Yes, there are times when we know through scripture that Jesus gets angry but I would think that this is rather the exception than the rule!

It seems that some have forgotten that that he always admonished the sinner to*** “sin no more”, ***and the others have forgotten that He was more concerned with us loving one another that "enforcing" the law as we see fit!

The ‘effiminate’ word wasnt mine, but I hear it all the time, hence I wanted to ‘debunk’ it. I’m not trying to paint him as a bad guy, or focus on him being mean spirited, but I do believe the wrath of our Lord, and fear of our Lord, has been lost- in part because everyone thinks he’s some kind of birkenstock wearin’ hippie…Thats not the way I understand him.

 

[Charlotte408]

In the end you are right in your notion that Jesus is “no wimp”, but you must also remember that as God Jesus is Love. He made you and all Creation because He loves you and He loves His Creation. He suffered and died for you for that same Love. And He continues to call to all mankind to Himself out of that same amazing love.

I am well aware (and forever grateful) of this, however this is not the focus of this particular thread.

 

[mommamaree]

We…ll, strictly speaking, we don’t know what He worked at, we’re not told. He’s described as ‘the carpenter’s son’, so it’s reasonable to assume that He, too, was taught to be a carpenter, but we are not actually told that.
I agree with you that if He was a manual worker, especially a carpenter, He would have developed upper body strength, because of using hand-tools, but we are not told He was a builder - why do you think that?

Jesus often used building analogies, didn’t he? He must have had some basic building skills or knowledge, even if building had not been his trade. And all that time before he began his ministry at about age 30 would have been long enough to become a very talented carpenter or tradesman in his own right. I really have no ‘dog in the fight’ one way or another…but it is interesting to think about how Jesus might have contributed materially to his family before beginning his public ministry. Of course, I was told that Joseph probably had older children and was a widower, and so those children probably carried on his carpentry business. Anyway, it is all speculation, but makes for some interesting thinking.

 

[JMJ_coder]

---

OK, this disturbs me on so many levels.

First and foremost, why would anyone use the word "effeminate " to describe a man who preached love for God and neighbor above all else?
It is exactly this type of “labeling” that causes so much trouble.
Second, of course Jesus hated sin, think about the story of the adulterous woman, he stops the crowd from stoning her, forgives her sins and tells her, go and sin no more! Look through the Gospels again, everytime Jesus heals someone, he usually says*** “you are forgiven, go and sin no more”***

Yes, there are times when we know through scripture that Jesus gets angry but I would think that this is rather the exception than the rule!

It seems that some have forgotten that that he always admonished the sinner to*** “sin no more”, ***and the others have forgotten that He was more concerned with us loving one another that "enforcing" the law as we see fit!

One problem is that people seem to have an erroneous idea of the definition of ‘meek’, which primarily means: enduring injury with patience and without resentment [mild] (Merriam-Webster). Meekness in the Gospel is not a synonym for timidity or ‘flower-power’.

Also, to love someone is to desire the greatest good for them, which is communion with God. Thus, it is not loving to allow someone to skip on their merry way to hell. It is an act of mercy to admonish the sinner and instruct the ignorant (two of the Spiritual Works of Mercy). Some have expressed their opinion that mercy and love is nothing but a sign of weakness and feminism, but they only show their utter fear and lack of self-security by saying something so stupid.

Thirdly, I recall an episode of LHOTP where an old carpenter was talking to Albert and said: “Some men don’t cry because they fear it is a sign of weakness. I was taught that a man is a man because he can cry.” “And Jesus wept.”(Jn 11:35)

I always loved the scene in “Ben Hur” when Judah is being dragged to the galleys and they stop in Nazareth. Everyone is instructed not to give Judah water, but Judah prays to God and a second later Jesus is there with a cup of water. As Judah drinks Jesus strokes his hair and shows absolute compassion and tender love toward him. Then the Centurian sees and yells “I said no water for him”. Of course, Jesus pays no heed and the Centurian goes to strike Jesus at which he stands up and you can just see in the face of the soldier that Jesus has put the fear of God into him without saying a word. It is as though He is telling everyone “you will NOT lay a hand on one of my own!”.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/images/good_shepherd.jpg
I am a real man. Come and follow me.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate, wouldnt hurt a fly person…When in actuality he was VERY masculine. They went on about a story, where there were men in a temple trying to sell something…and Jesus got frustrated (something to this effect) and took up a cord and whipped and ran them out.

He wasnt just Mr. Free lovin’ Nice guy…

Can someone please tell me where I can find this story? Or any other examples of how Jesus put his foot down? I’m interested in knowing this side of Him. I’m tired of people saying ‘oh Jesus didnt hate sin’.

Yes He did.

Are you sure they said “the New Testament portrays Him as effeminate?” That sounds odd, as the only picture we have of our Lord as an actual Person in history is FROM the New Testament (Tradition doesn’t contradict Scripture or vice versa). I don’t think the NT portrays Him that way at all and I don’t think His anger at the money changers in the temple can be defined as “masculine.” I think it’s just righteous anger, particularly righteous in that it was manifested by the One Who was sinless.

Also, I’ve never heard anyone say “Jesus didn’t hate sin.” Are you sure you’ve heard right?

The Holy One was masculine because He was (and is) a man (true God and true man). “Masculine” is kind of a cultural value and construct, anyway. I grew up in the south, where to be masculine was to be a football fanatic and be able to talk sports. One of my best friends is a classical pianist and a composer. He couldn’t care less about sports (I don’t think he’s ever mentioned it in any context). In the South, that would have been several strikes against him. He’s “masculine,” however, in that there is no doubt he’s a man, has no effeminate qualities, and his sons have both been heard to say what a good father he is and how they hope to be just like him.

It kind of comes down to a definition of terms, doesn’t it?

 

[puzzleannie]

I was listening to EWTN the other day, and they were saying that the New Testament almost paints Jesus like he’s some, long haired…effiminate,

Yes He did.

who is “they”? in what context was this said, because that is NOT the way the New Testament portrays Jesus
the incident of the cleansing of the temple happened just before Jesus’ arrest and crucifixion, and is recounted in Matthew’s gospel chapter 21 verses 12-17, but don’t stop there, read the entire gospel and meet the real Jesus

 

[MarkThompson]

Among the more challenging teachings of Jesus is this, in Matthew 10:

[BIBLEDRB]Matt. 10:32-39[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Poco]

Jesus must have been a big, strong man. Before his public ministry, he was a builder, probably working with heavy stones and wooden beams.

I hadn’t really thought about that before. You may be right.

In any case, nobody seemed to mess with Him when he cleared the moneychangers and others out of the Temple!

Which reminds me of something I heard (I don’t remember where, though):

“You don’t want to box with God. Your arms are too short!”

 

[patrick457]

I agree with you that as a manual worker, especially a carpenter, He would have developed upper body strength, because of using hand-tools, but we are not told He was a builder - why do you think that?

Long story short: the word in Greek is tekton, which covers a wider range of meaning than ‘woodworker’ and could thus mean ‘builder’ or ‘craftsman’ in general.

Since good-quality timber was rare in Nazareth and surrounding areas and had to be imported, Joseph and Jesus could also have turned to another job which was in more higher demand in their area than woodworking: being stonemasons, fashioning stone to serve as construction materials.

 

[barb_finnegan]

One problem is that people seem to have an erroneous idea of the definition of ‘meek’, which primarily means: enduring injury with patience and without resentment [mild] (Merriam-Webster). Meekness in the Gospel is not a synonym for timidity or ‘flower-power’.

Also, to love someone is to desire the greatest good for them, which is communion with God. Thus, it is not loving to allow someone to skip on their merry way to hell. It is an act of mercy to admonish the sinner and instruct the ignorant (two of the Spiritual Works of Mercy). Some have expressed their opinion that mercy and love is nothing but a sign of weakness and feminism, but they only show their utter fear and lack of self-security by saying something so stupid.

Thirdly, I recall an episode of LHOTP where an old carpenter was talking to Albert and said: “Some men don’t cry because they fear it is a sign of weakness. I was taught that a man is a man because he can cry.” “And Jesus wept.”(Jn 11:35)

I always loved the scene in “Ben Hur” when Judah is being dragged to the galleys and they stop in Nazareth. Everyone is instructed not to give Judah water, but Judah prays to God and a second later Jesus is there with a cup of water. As Judah drinks Jesus strokes his hair and shows absolute compassion and tender love toward him. Then the Centurian sees and yells “I said no water for him”. Of course, Jesus pays no heed and the Centurian goes to strike Jesus at which he stands up and you can just see in the face of the soldier that Jesus has put the fear of God into him without saying a word. It is as though He is telling everyone “you will NOT lay a hand on one of my own!”.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/images/good_shepherd.jpg
I am a real man. Come and follow me.

Yes, that ‘Ben-Hur’ scene is one of my favorite parts of the whole movie!

I don’t like it when Our Lord is depicted as ‘feminine-looking’. He was CERTAINLY NO WIMP! He got angry on more than one occasion! Not only when He threw the moneychangers out the Temple [twice], but He lost His temper when the man who had a possessed boy said that he asked His disciples to cast the demon out, and they couldn’t; He got VERY EXASPERATED ! And He also ‘looked around with anger’ in the synagogue of Capernaum before He cured the man with the withered hand.

So He could get angry-He was A TOTAL MAN!

 

[JMJ_coder]

I don’t like it when Our Lord is depicted as ‘feminine-looking’.

What do you mean by ‘feminine-looking’?

 

[Charlotte408]

What do you mean by ‘feminine-looking’?

I’m not sure what in particular that person was refferring to, but I have seen Him portrayed as…

extremely effiminate… and have heard it even suggested that He was a homosexual. This may be what they mean.

IMHO- its just a group trying to twist something to fit their agenda, but…

 

[barb_finnegan]

I’m not sure what in particular that person was refferring to, but I have seen Him portrayed as…

extremely effiminate… and have heard it even suggested that He was a homosexual. This may be what they mean.

IMHO- its just a group trying to twist something to fit their agenda, but…

That’s pretty much what I meant to say! Thank you, Charlotte!

 

[JMJ_coder]

I’m not sure what in particular that person was refferring to, but I have seen Him portrayed as…

extremely effiminate… and have heard it even suggested that He was a homosexual. This may be what they mean.

IMHO- its just a group trying to twist something to fit their agenda, but…

Who cares what “they” say. Someone who says something as ludicrous as that shows how impious they are and how perverted their intent is.

I mean it really has nothing to do with some vague notion of an “effiminate” portrayal (still not sure what features make such an image so), if someone is so far gone as to think Jesus had orientation issues they could argue that nonsense from any image. I mean one of the village people was a construction worker.