Debunking Vatican II freemasonry?

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ShawnEBell said:
Well, that’s not quite correct.

Canon 1374 - the Canon which replaced 2335 - removed the restriction against Catholics being members of Freemasonry.

Canon 2335 said: “Those who join a Masonic sect or other societies of the same sort, which plot against the Church or against legitimate civil authority, incur ipso facto an excommunication simply reserved to the Holy See.”

Canon 1374 says “A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.”

There was an opinion letter issued from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (penned by Cardinal Ratzinger), but - unfortunately for those dead set on seeing a social fraternity as a threat to a religion - an opinion letter is just that: an opinion; it doesn’t carry the force or effect of Canon Law.

Fr. Saunders article, “Catholics and the Freemason ‘Religion’” - while interesting reading - is incorrect on virtually every issue.

As a practicing and wholly engaged Catholic - an usher, a liturgical, eucharistic, and extraordinary minister - I serve my Church. As soon as I finish getting my degree, I’ll serve as a Catholic Chaplain wherever I’m needed.

As a Freemason, I attend Lodge and participate as an officer - even serving as Chaplain and Prelate.

If Freemasonry in any way violated Canon 1374, I would have left the social fraternity long ago. Since it doesn’t, I continue to be a member.

Freemasonry isn’t a religion, nor is it a substitute for one.
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Boatswain2PA said:
Do you push the freemason conspiracy theories that they are satanic, are striving to take over the world, and working to overthrow the Church??

I hope not…
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Those aren’t theories, they are proven facts.

Just kidding. 😛 I don’t particularly think the vast majority of freemasons are striving to do much more than socialize/network, drink beer, and perhaps do some charitable stuff. 😉

There are plenty of people out there who want to undermine the Church, though. I’m sure some of them even “conspire” with like-minded folks the same ways Catholics “conspire” with each other over the best way to spread the Gospel. At the moment, I don’t think our biggest threat in this regard is coming from the masons.

I could be wrong, though. I’ve never sat in on their secret meetings. 😛
 
Jeffgo said:
Cardinal Ratzinger was not merely expressing his personal opinion. He was exercising his authority as Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith to state the proper interpretation of Canon Law, and his interpretation was approved by the supreme pontiff of the Catholic Church, John Paul II. In other words, the Prefect for the CDF (a future pope) and Pope JPII publicly stated that your interpretation of Canon 1374 is incorrect. The original text can be found here: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

While I don’t doubt that you do a lot of good work in the Masons, and do so with the best of intentions, it’s just a hard fact that the Catholic Church forbids her members from being involved with the Masons.
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Wow. Well, I see there was some kind of disconnect between what I wrote and what you read, Jeffgo. I’ll do my best to clarify:

    • I did not say that Ratzinger was expressing his personal opinion. I specifically said that there was an opinion letter issued from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (penned by Cardinal Ratzinger). The opinion is that of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - not Cardinal Ratzinger. It does NOT carry the weight of Canon Law. Period. Ever.
    • The link that you, yourself, provided, Jeffgo, very clearly states “the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration.”
    • While the former Pope may not see eye to eye with me regarding Canon 1374, the same cannot be said for Pope John Paul II; he didn’t change Canon Law based on the opinion letter, he only ordered the opinion letter to be published - by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Now you might not understand what that means, so I’ll break it down:
    • The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued an opinion letter.
    • Pope John Paul II ordered that the opinion letter be published.
    John Paul II very specifically didn’t say “put that on my letterhead, that’s my opinion,” nor did he say “let’s change Canon 1374.” The reason Canon Law wasn’t changed, and the opinion wasn’t ‘from the desk of da Pope’ was because John Paul II didn’t agree with the opinion. There is no “in other words” involved, Jeffgo. Those were the actions of the Pope, which you clearly identified and linked to in your post.

    But let’s go that one extra step, so that we’re all on the same page:
    • Pope John Paul II did NOT change Canon Law, leaving Canon 1374 intact.
    • Ratzinger - as Pope Benedict XVI - did NOT change Canon Law, leaving Canon 1374 intact.
    Therefore, there is not now - nor has there been since 1983 - ANY “hard fact that the Catholic Church forbids her members from being involved with the Masons.” In fact, the exact opposite is true; the Church has removed the restriction on Masonic affiliation. It’s not an endorsement of the fraternity, but it’s not a condemnation of any Catholic who is a member of the fraternity, either.
 
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