Deciding between two parishes- Which one?

[T_More]

Hi everyone. I was hoping I could get some help on this decision I face. First off, I DO NOT want this come across as “church/parish shopping”. I have some legitimate concerns, and need some insights.

First off, I have not yet entered the Church, but I hope to enter RCIA this year (long story). My wife and I have been attending a parish that is about 10 minutes away for about a year and are there very Sunday. The priest is very kind, funny and recognizes us now since we have been going so long. He knows my family’s background and doesn’t push us. The parish is nice, with a somewhat older community. It’s a church that doesn’t have a crucifix behind the altar, but more a “ecumenical” multi colored glass cross. There is a large, traditional crucifix in the corner of one of the transepts and in each corner of those, there are statues of Our Lady. Other than those, there really isn’t a Marian artistic presence in the parish. It’s a pretty parish, but I don’t get a sense of “orthodoxy”, the orthodoxy that I have read so much about when I decided I wanted to become Catholic. The homilies are solid for the most part, but rarely are the church fathers mentioned, if at all, and hell and sin are almost never discussed. The Tabernacle is in a small chapel to the side of the church. The choir is fantastic.

I occasionally started attending another parish from time to time that is another 10 minutes away, and the feel is very, very different. The priest ( he typically wears a cassock when not performimg Mass), for example, does a Tridentine Mass every Sunday evening, that I just fell in love with. His Novus Ordo Masses are markedly different from the other as well, as he chants the prayers for example. He provides Confession 30 minutes before every Mass and the group that performs the Gregorian Chants are great. I’ve read his homilies on line, something that I have never seen before ( he posts his Sunday homilies the following week), and they are very different from what I hear at the other, as he is not afraid to offend the parish by speaking of the consequences of sin. He is younger, but uber orthodox, which I love. He speaks and writes profusely not only of sacred scripture, but of the early church fathers as well. The church itself feels and looks very traditional, and there is a Marian chapel on one side, and a chapel dedicated to their patron saint on the other. There is fantastic Catholic artwork everywhere, it contains 3 relics (the other, I think, does not have any) and the Tabernacle is directly behind a rood screen, in the center of the church. And, there is a tradtional crucifix high above the altar. The parish has a diverse age group and a more diverse racial mix as well, which I like. The parish looks and feels like the Church I read about when I read my way into believing the Catholic faith.

So my question’s are, am I reading too much into this? Is this a “never judge a book by it’s cover” situation, or can I learn something from my experiences? I don’t dislike the first parish at all, but there is a tangible sense of tradition that is palpable in the second one that is so alluring to me that I don’t quite feel in the other. Am I being fair comparing these two parishes this way? I’m so afraid of reading of some posters experiences on this site that tell of liberal priests that do not teach the faith correctly, and I want my family and I Catechised correctly. My gut is telling me to go to the second one for now on, but my wife has grown comfortable with the first one. Help!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Given the choice, I would go where you feel most comfortable.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My advice is don’t have us tell you where to go, you tell yourself where to go. We can give advice thats filled with our own personal biases. But its you who’s going to that parish, not us. Think and pray. Where do you really feel that God calls you to be?

Let me give you an example. I wasn’t parish shopping. I just wanted to learn more about Eastern Christianity. I went to a Ukrainian Catholic parish just to experience the Byzantine Rite. I got hooked, I stayed. I felt that God called me to that. It wasn’t anyone who told me I should do this, its not even something I planned before hand, it just happened.

You’ll know it in your heart. God would want you to be in an environment where you can hear Him clearly. When Jesus spoke to fishermen, he talked about catching fish. When He spoke to farmers, he talked about the fields. God wants us to receive His message clearly. In your heart you’ll know which parish you should be a part of.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I vote #2. You are the leader of the home and you need to go where your heart is and where you believe your faith can grow the most. If you are more orthodox then you need that influence in your worship. I’d love that 2nd church myself! You’re very fortunate to have such an orthodox church available. Many Catholics want more orthodox worship but don’t have the opportunity.

Wishing you an amazing journey home!

 

[Samuel63]

Rubbish! Go to both and check them out with a method in mind. Check on the following:
a. Does the priest run the parish or is that “creative liturgist” in charge?
b. Are specific times posted for sacrament of penance or is it “by appointment only.”?
c. Is Eucharistic Adoration held once per week, once per month, at all?
d. Compare the two churches on www.masstimes.org. Is there a difference?
e. Does either parish have a large choir (not necessarily a positive)?
f. Do people bow to the alter upon entering the church, bless themselves with holy water, genuflect when passing before the tabernacle?
g. Is the tabernacle plainly visible with a burning candle nearby to mark the spot where our Lord is present?
h. Is there a statue of Mary, large and easy to find, in the church somewhere, preferably in the front near the alter?
i. Is the correct psalm recited or sung at mass? If so, are the words recognizable compared to what you find in a missal, or have they been significantly altered?
j. Are there at least some in the parish that receive our Lord on the tongue instead of in the hand?
k. Finally, there should be a large crucifix with a corpus behind the altar! If not, be worried.

These points are just a start and will give you an idea if the parish is really catholic or just catholic-light. You, your spouse, and kids deserve the real thing.

 

[thequeen]

Hi everyone. I was hoping I could get some help on this decision I face. First off, I DO NOT want this come across as “church/parish shopping”. I have some legitimate concerns, and need some insights.

First off, I have not yet entered the Church, but I hope to enter RCIA this year (long story). My wife and I have been attending a parish that is about 10 minutes away for about a year and are there very Sunday. The priest is very kind, funny and recognizes us now since we have been going so long. He knows my family’s background and doesn’t push us. The parish is nice, with a somewhat older community. It’s a church that doesn’t have a crucifix behind the altar, but more a “ecumenical” multi colored glass cross. There is a large, traditional crucifix in the corner of one of the transepts and in each corner of those, there are statues of Our Lady. Other than those, there really isn’t a Marian artistic presence in the parish. It’s a pretty parish, but I don’t get a sense of “orthodoxy”, the orthodoxy that I have read so much about when I decided I wanted to become Catholic. The homilies are solid for the most part, but rarely are the church fathers mentioned, if at all, and hell and sin are almost never discussed. The Tabernacle is in a small chapel to the side of the church. The choir is fantastic.

I occasionally started attending another parish from time to time that is another 10 minutes away, and the feel is very, very different. The priest ( he typically wears a cassock when not performimg Mass), for example, does a Tridentine Mass every Sunday evening, that I just fell in love with. His Novus Ordo Masses are markedly different from the other as well, as he chants the prayers for example. He provides Confession 30 minutes before every Mass and the group that performs the Gregorian Chants are great. I’ve read his homilies on line, something that I have never seen before ( he posts his Sunday homilies the following week), and they are very different from what I hear at the other, as he is not afraid to offend the parish by speaking of the consequences of sin. He is younger, but uber orthodox, which I love. He speaks and writes profusely not only of sacred scripture, but of the early church fathers as well. The church itself feels and looks very traditional, and there is a Marian chapel on one side, and a chapel dedicated to their patron saint on the other. There is fantastic Catholic artwork everywhere, it contains 3 relics (the other, I think, does not have any) and the Tabernacle is directly behind a rood screen, in the center of the church. And, there is a tradtional crucifix high above the altar. The parish has a diverse age group and a more diverse racial mix as well, which I like. The parish looks and feels like the Church I read about when I read my way into believing the Catholic faith.

So my question’s are, am I reading too much into this? Is this a “never judge a book by it’s cover” situation, or can I learn something from my experiences? I don’t dislike the first parish at all, but there is a tangible sense of tradition that is palpable in the second one that is so alluring to me that I don’t quite feel in the other. Am I being fair comparing these two parishes this way? I’m so afraid of reading of some posters experiences on this site that tell of liberal priests that do not teach the faith correctly, and I want my family and I Catechised correctly. My gut is telling me to go to the second one for now on, but my wife has grown comfortable with the first one. Help!

Go for the more orthodox one you will be glad you did.and eventually so will your wife.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

If the only difference were that the one church has the tabernacle in a separate room and the other has it where it should be, I would go to the second one - the one with the tabernacle in the center. Why should Our Lord be set aside in a little room? That right there tells me something about the priest. Usually if a priest feels that the tabernacle should be in the center, he will move it there pretty much immediately upon arriving at the church. I know of two local priests who have done that, and neither one waited the usual six months before making a major change.

Go to the second one!

 

[Crumpy]

I rather favor the advice in post #3, to have you decide.

Another thing to consider, is that maybe the priest in parish #2 won’t be there forever, and that you may just get comfortable there and some big changes may upset you later. So, if you choose #2, do so without taking it for granted that nothing will change. I think I’d like #2, for sure.

I believe that Canon Law itself allows you to worship at any parish where you feel most comfortable. That was a revision of a previous canon (rule) that parishes had boundaries to be observed.

So, for spiritual edification, you can choose the church that seems best for you.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I rather favor the advice in post #3, to have you decide.

Another thing to consider, is that maybe the priest in parish #2 won’t be there forever, and that you may just get comfortable there and some big changes may upset you later. So, if you choose #2, do so without taking it for granted that nothing will change. I think I’d like #2, for sure.

I know how that feels. I moved houses and then moved to a parish close to my new home. The priest was awesome! Glad I moved there. One year later he got reassigned.

I believe that Canon Law itself allows you to worship at any parish where you feel most comfortable. That was a revision of a previous canon (rule) that parishes had boundaries to be observed.

So, for spiritual edification, you can choose the church that seems best for you.

Canon Law allows us to fulfill our obligation at any Catholic Rite Liturgy. So not only do you have a choice of any different parish, it could be of another Catholic Rite.

 

[corsair]

I would go to the more reverent church. If it changes over time, well you may have to change to another church. I am not so tied up with the building as I am with the liturgy.

 

[puzzleannie]

for RCIA choose the parish where you will worship and where you would like to become part of parish life. What are the ministries and apostolates and simply social groups that attract you? This is going to be your parish home and the community you join that models Christ’s church for you. Yes some of the things you mention are superficial, but do point to deeper reasons for their existence. There are also practical factors, such as if you have kids you intend for Catholic school.

 

[laszlo]

Apparently both churches are in full communion with the Church, part of the diocese. Look for the homepage op your diocese and if you see the name of the church in the list of the parishes, then you are safe to choose

You are free to chose the church either for regular attendance, and for the RCIA. For the attendance you may even alternate the between the churches.

I would contact both churches with the request for RCIA, and would attend the one which is the better for everyone in the family. After the first few session you can say to one one them that the other is better for you.

If you read the Gospels, especially Matthew, you will see that Jesus was not traditionalist, he mixed the new and old with emphasis on the new, and he expects the hearts not the rites.

 

[mary_bobo]

I say go where your soul feels most nourished.

 

[Samuel63]

But we are in a fallen world and outside the garden of eden!

Go instead to where the Magisterium of the church is best reflected.

Checkout the General Instruction of The Roman Missal (GIRM) online and compare what the church teaches versus what is presented at your parish.

Look into the exhortation titled Redemptionis Sacramentum, particularly paragraph 170. Find out how the eucharist is handled at the two parishes in comparison to this pithy paragraph.

You may discover one parish has been seriously comprimised. Do you really want to get your spiritual nourishment at this place? I do not think so.

Whenever someone tells you to go with what feels best, watch out! When it comes to objective truth, and the Catholic Church, go with what is authentic and nothing else. Your family and their eternal salvation is worth it. It is why Jesus made the ultimate sacrafice too.

Check out the latest installments of The Vortex at www.RealCatholicTV.com. There are a few episodes that refer to the first parish in your area.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Hi everyone. I was hoping I could get some help on this decision I face. First off, I DO NOT want this come across as “church/parish shopping”. I have some legitimate concerns, and need some insights.

First off, I have not yet entered the Church, but I hope to enter RCIA this year (long story). My wife and I have been attending a parish that is about 10 minutes away for about a year and are there very Sunday. The priest is very kind, funny and recognizes us now since we have been going so long. He knows my family’s background and doesn’t push us. The parish is nice, with a somewhat older community. It’s a church that doesn’t have a crucifix behind the altar, but more a “ecumenical” multi colored glass cross. There is a large, traditional crucifix in the corner of one of the transepts and in each corner of those, there are statues of Our Lady. Other than those, there really isn’t a Marian artistic presence in the parish. It’s a pretty parish, but I don’t get a sense of “orthodoxy”, the orthodoxy that I have read so much about when I decided I wanted to become Catholic. The homilies are solid for the most part, but rarely are the church fathers mentioned, if at all, and hell and sin are almost never discussed. The Tabernacle is in a small chapel to the side of the church. The choir is fantastic.

I occasionally started attending another parish from time to time that is another 10 minutes away, and the feel is very, very different. The priest ( he typically wears a cassock when not performimg Mass), for example, does a Tridentine Mass every Sunday evening, that I just fell in love with. His Novus Ordo Masses are markedly different from the other as well, as he chants the prayers for example. He provides Confession 30 minutes before every Mass and the group that performs the Gregorian Chants are great. I’ve read his homilies on line, something that I have never seen before ( he posts his Sunday homilies the following week), and they are very different from what I hear at the other, as he is not afraid to offend the parish by speaking of the consequences of sin. He is younger, but uber orthodox, which I love. He speaks and writes profusely not only of sacred scripture, but of the early church fathers as well. The church itself feels and looks very traditional, and there is a Marian chapel on one side, and a chapel dedicated to their patron saint on the other. There is fantastic Catholic artwork everywhere, it contains 3 relics (the other, I think, does not have any) and the Tabernacle is directly behind a rood screen, in the center of the church. And, there is a tradtional crucifix high above the altar. The parish has a diverse age group and a more diverse racial mix as well, which I like. The parish looks and feels like the Church I read about when I read my way into believing the Catholic faith.

So my question’s are, am I reading too much into this? Is this a “never judge a book by it’s cover” situation, or can I learn something from my experiences? I don’t dislike the first parish at all, but there is a tangible sense of tradition that is palpable in the second one that is so alluring to me that I don’t quite feel in the other. Am I being fair comparing these two parishes this way? I’m so afraid of reading of some posters experiences on this site that tell of liberal priests that do not teach the faith correctly, and I want my family and I Catechised correctly. My gut is telling me to go to the second one for now on, but my wife has grown comfortable with the first one. Help!

Would sit your family down to a dinner of Captain Crunch and Snickers or meat and potatoes? If you did this every night, what do you think your family would look like in 5 years? Sure, the first option might look appealing at first but they will soon get fat and their teeth will fall out and will crave something of substance, not even wanting to eat dinner if they have to eat that.

What do you want your family to look like in 5 years or 20 years? Is the junk food diet or the meat-and-potatoes diet more appealing?

PS: It’s interesting that he’s bi-ritual, that exists but it’s not very common, are you sure it’s not just the New Mass in Latin? My old NO priest used to say the New Mass in Latin on Saturdays.

 

[T_More]

PS: It’s interesting that he’s bi-ritual, that exists but it’s not very common, are you sure it’s not just the New Mass in Latin? My old NO priest used to say the New Mass in Latin on Saturdays.

No, it’s the Tridentine Mass. The priest is known throughout the diocese as very traditional.

 

[ConstantineTG]

PS: It’s interesting that he’s bi-ritual, that exists but it’s not very common, are you sure it’s not just the New Mass in Latin? My old NO priest used to say the New Mass in Latin on Saturdays.

A priest who says the OF and EF are NOT bi-ritual. The OF and the EF are different expressions of the same Roman Rite. It is one and the same Rite.

A bi-ritual priest is like the one we have here who is a Chaldean Rite priest, and has the faculties to say the Ordinary Form of the Roman Mass. So he’s main function is to shepherd the Chaldean Catholics in the area and say the Holy Qurbana (the Chaldean Mass) and then on occasion, he will help out in the RC parishes and say the Roman Mass.

 

[laszlo]

A priest who says the OF and EF are NOT bi-ritual. The OF and the EF are different expressions of the same Roman Rite. It is one and the same Rite.

The pope used the word ‘form’ instead of rite, but he difference is only that the Eastern Catholic rites are not to be mixed (celebrated in the same church regularly), but the two form are to be celebrated in the same place in order to influence each other.

There is just One Mass, the Mass of all Ages, Roman rite, Eastern Catholic rites, Ambrosian rite, Mosarabic rite; Anglican use form, Traditional Latin form, Ordinary form: all is the same Mass of all Ages, through the presence of Jesus Christ, wich is the essence of the Mass.

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[T_More]

An update. After much prayer and careful consideration (and a few signs as well!), I’ve decided to proceed with the more orthodox parish. I attended their Novus Ordo Ad Orientem and I was blown away. I can attend either the Tridentine or Ad Orientem and feel my soul being nourished, which is worth the extra 10 minutes driving time any day. I will be entering the Church through this wonderful parish as part of the Tiber 2012 swim team. Praise be to God! Thanks to all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut in this matter.