Decision Time.

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You’re feeding an addiction. And frankly I think you’re co-dependent. This is not a medical diagnosis, but again, I’ve seen this play before. Didn’t happen in my life but this is the kind of thing that people in S-meetings talk about. Either they come there because they had a blowup with a spouse or because their spouse actually helped feed their addiction and now they’re in legal, financial or emotional trouble. Emotional trouble as in both of them have lost all sense of reality, they’re constantly on edge and they’ve turned to other things like alcohol to try and numb their anxiousness.

I think this is pretty cut and dry. This guy is completely and totally addicted to pornography and masturbation. The clearest sign should have been him not having sexual relations with you, but just getting you to stimulate him. That’s just bizarre.

Clearly the therapy has not worked. He’s not even just hanging on to some of his addictive behaviors, he’s making you complicit in them. That’s even worse.

You should not confront him over little things like his elbow. That’s pointless. He’s going to lie and weasel and manipulate out of it. Or he’ll admit it and cry and say “I’m so sorry, I’ll change” and then try to have everything be fine within a day or so. I assure you that he’ll go right back to it.

You’ve clearly hit bottom or are nearing it. Now it’s time to take action, before hitting bottom constitutes something truly out of control. I can’t advocate what kind of action to take, but you saw from my example what it took to shake me out of my haze and truthfully, I was not nearly as far down the rabbit hole.
 
Don’t talk to us. Get a therapist for yourself alone. I think your husband is manipulating you, but I only have your posts to go on. Besides, it doesn’t matter what I think. I’m not a professional and I don’t know you. It only matters that you feel you have the skills and strengths to make the decisions you ought to and the strength to do it. That’s inside you. You may need some help to both find it and, once you find it, to believe you have.

As for your money problems, the first thing to do is to give up the nightly wine for water, dear. The minute alcohol (or even a food item) becomes something you* need* more than to stay financially solvent, you have a problem. After you quit feeding the wine cellar, there are all sorts of frugal threads on these forums, which will give you more ideas of what can be done to stretch a paycheck.
 
I have read some of these replies, and I am so sorry for the struggle you are facing. What it sounds like you two are going back and forth on certain things, and you are letting him make the decisions in the end.

I would not file bankruptcy, unless it would significantly help myself, and I would not take out an additional lease just to satisfy these conditions. If the bankruptcy lawyers says you need to decrease your expenses - then you need to do that. NOW

Are you renting or owning your current house? How much (%) is your rental/mortgage of your monthly income?

If you own, start asking about recommendations for real estate agents, and look at your appraisal. Look at how much you owe in the mortgage, and figure out if you can refinance (if that would help at all)
If you are renting, what are the terms? When does the lease end? What is the cost to break the lease? (if any)

If you need the bankruptcy to go through (FOR YOU- not for him) then you need to do these things.

If you have more than two cars, I would sell any extra cars to pay off any additional debt. Look at other areas where you are spending (Try and get a new quote for car insurance, etc) to see if anything like that saves you money. Easy way to save a buck is to get rid of cable.

I would start to “lay down the law” with him - and refuse to take a “NO” - You have to really build yourself up because it will get ugly. But he needs to go to financial counseling with you. If he refuses to do that, then cut up/freeze all his credit cards, and give him cash. You pay the bills and the other expenses and then HE pays for his gas, his food, etc. with the money YOU give him. Or, you cut your money off from his, and dictate what he must pay with HIS paycheck.

As far as Catholic school goes, check with the school to see if they offer financial assistance (if you haven’t already) otherwise it sounds like next year you need to think about a different option. Maybe once you get your financial situation under control it will be better/more affordable- but really, this seems like an easy place where you could save some money! (please make it a priority to put that money back into your son’s savings account)

If you need to talk, PM me. I have struggled with dealing with my DH’s porn addiction. It is not something that they ever “get over” completely.
 
I talked to him and he just shut down. He got an angry look on his face and said he was “done talking” even though he never really spoke.

I was kind and just told him I needed him to be a partner and teammate instead of pushing all the burdens onto me.

Just the simplest things… Will set him off. For example, this morning (and most mornings) he will be getting ready to leave for work and will have his linch and over the shoulder bag. He screamed out “can you open the door please” but I didn’t hear him. I asked what he said and he gave me THAT look and said “open the door please!”. He just can’t even manage to walk out the door without my help.

I said “really?” to his tone … And he got MAD and said “I just asked you to open the door… What is YOUR deal”.

It is just too hard for him to even leave the house without assistance!
 
LorilopezInneed said:
I talked to him and he just shut down. He got an angry look on his face and said he was “done talking” even though he never really spoke.

I was kind and just told him I needed him to be a partner and teammate instead of pushing all the burdens onto me.

Just the simplest things… Will set him off. For example, this morning (and most mornings) he will be getting ready to leave for work and will have his linch and over the shoulder bag. He screamed out “can you open the door please” but I didn’t hear him. I asked what he said and he gave me THAT look and said “open the door please!”. He just can’t even manage to walk out the door without my help.

I said “really?” to his tone … And he got MAD and said “I just asked you to open the door… What is YOUR deal”.

It is just too hard for him to even leave the house without assistance!
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It’s not too hard for him to leave the house without assistance. It’s just that he wants to control you further. And he wants to do it with “that tone” and trust me I know what that tone is. I had no idea I was doing it when I was in my addiction, but I can hear it when it slips out from time to time. It’s a character flaw of mine but it’s one I can catch when I’m not in my addiction. I was completely oblivious to it when I was in it, though I did have a semblance of an idea that I was out of control. I was really upset with how I was hurting my wife but way too terrified to tell her about it for fear of losing her.

I thank God every day she had the courage to leave for awhile because it forced me to flip my life around. Crazy to hear huh? A man thanking God that his wife took his children and left for two weeks leaving behind a note and both her rings. Quite honestly, it was the best thing that could have happened to me and to her.

You’ve totally lost control of your life Lori and your husband is utterly lost. I mean just completely and totally lost. There’s nothing you can do to bring him back. That’s up to him and to God. You need to make decisions that protect you and your son.
 
LorilopezInneed said:
I talked to him and he just shut down. He got an angry look on his face and said he was “done talking” even though he never really spoke.

I was kind and just told him I needed him to be a partner and teammate instead of pushing all the burdens onto me.

Just the simplest things… Will set him off. For example, this morning (and most mornings) he will be getting ready to leave for work and will have his linch and over the shoulder bag. He screamed out “can you open the door please” but I didn’t hear him. I asked what he said and he gave me THAT look and said “open the door please!”. He just can’t even manage to walk out the door without my help.

I said “really?” to his tone … And he got MAD and said “I just asked you to open the door… What is YOUR deal”.

It is just too hard for him to even leave the house without assistance!
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You need to be careful how you talk if you want to have a productive discussion. “I need you” is not a good way to have a conversation- no one will reply to that well because you are essentially demanding.

You can say “I feel like there is a lot of pressure on me and I could really use some help handling some of these responsibilities.” The idea is to not put him down and **ask **him for help. You can only tell him how you feel.

Yes, little things can be upsetting and easily. It is so much easier to say “Sorry, I didn’t hear you. Let me get the door” then to start a confrontation. Are his hands full? juggling coffee/bag/papers? Are you always in the same room when he leaves? (Do you both leave at same time?) It sounds like it is a routine that you have fallen into… What about your son at this point?

You can try a situation where you say (right before he leaves) “Oh, no! I left x,y,z, upstairs (or wherever)” and see what he does. Does he leave without you? Does he stick around? What about leaving earlier? There’s no reason to argue about opening a door, so don’t. I don’t think opening the door is enabling him to control your life, either. Or, turn the tides and ask him to open the door for you.
 
At our worst, my wife and I both went to counseling. I saw a professional therapist, and we both went to a priest (which was free). The priest helped a little, but he is not trained to counsel complex family situations.

My therapist helped me a great deal. At the time I balked at the cost, but I don’t regret a single penny. Our lives are by no means perfect, but it is so much better now. I don’t think anyone but a trained professional could have helped. I certainly could not have done it alone.

Edit. My therapist offers discounted rates to people who otherwise could not afford him. I am sure some others do the same.
 
I honestly was very careful with my wording with him. My therapist coached me to do the “I feel” in my communications.

He just kept saying “I guess I’m just not good enough”.

As for the morning routine… It is pretty ridiculous. He just didn’t want to get the door himself. Yeah he’s juggling… But who doesn’t? He just didn’t want to set a bag down to open the door. I was already racing to the kitchen to get myself ready… When he screamed for me to help him. It’s just pretty crazy… I carry tons of things all the time and I set them down to open the door for MYSELF.
luvpinsanity said:
You need to be careful how you talk if you want to have a productive discussion. “I need you” is not a good way to have a conversation- no one will reply to that well because you are essentially demanding.

You can say “I feel like there is a lot of pressure on me and I could really use some help handling some of these responsibilities.” The idea is to not put him down and **ask **him for help. You can only tell him how you feel.

Yes, little things can be upsetting and easily. It is so much easier to say “Sorry, I didn’t hear you. Let me get the door” then to start a confrontation. Are his hands full? juggling coffee/bag/papers? Are you always in the same room when he leaves? (Do you both leave at same time?) It sounds like it is a routine that you have fallen into… What about your son at this point?

You can try a situation where you say (right before he leaves) “Oh, no! I left x,y,z, upstairs (or wherever)” and see what he does. Does he leave without you? Does he stick around? What about leaving earlier? There’s no reason to argue about opening a door, so don’t. I don’t think opening the door is enabling him to control your life, either. Or, turn the tides and ask him to open the door for you.
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Hi:

I’ve followed your thread with interest. I’m curious as to what your goal is in posting on the site. When people offer advice, it seems that you respond by a) explaining either that you’ve already done whatever it is, or that it wouldn’t help to follow the poster’s advice, and b) going back to blaming your husband for all of your problems. What exactly is it are you looking for? What reply would satisfy you? If none of the many, many replies on this forum have helped you clarify what you are going to do, then perhaps it is time to stop elaborating on your situation on this forum.
 
heidi_storage said:
Hi:

I’ve followed your thread with interest. I’m curious as to what your goal is in posting on the site. When people offer advice, it seems that you respond by a) explaining either that you’ve already done whatever it is, or that it wouldn’t help to follow the poster’s advice, and b) going back to blaming your husband for all of your problems. What exactly is it are you looking for? What reply would satisfy you? If none of the many, many replies on this forum have helped you clarify what you are going to do, then perhaps it is time to stop elaborating on your situation on this forum.
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Sadly, I have to concur. I think it’s well proven that your husband is a passive-aggressive lunatic who has driven you to the bottom of your well, sucked your finances dry and is almost assuredly a porn addict. Do you want us to tell you about a magic cure? Because there isn’t one. You need to make a decision that protects your sanity, your soul and the soul of your son. At a certain point he has to decide if he wants to break out of his addictions and grow up.

I know that the suicidal threats and whatever can be scary, but if I can be brutally honest… you’re not responsible for him putting a bullet in his head if you leave because you’re being abused. You have a responsibility to protect yourself and your child. Your husband has manipulated you into writing erotica and also helped to bankrupt your family. He holds your emotions, your mind and your soul hostage. This is in no way healthy for anyone involved.

So do something that changes the paradigm. Or don’t. But railing about every circumstance and every event on these forums won’t help him, won’t help you and won’t help your child.
 
I really appreciated the advice I received here. Thank you.

I must admit that I come here because I want objective advice and advice from a Catholic perspective.

I have been praying and I spoke with my husband further about the book writing and the bankruptcy. I told him that I just don’t want to file or write.

So he offered up cashing in his 401k. Which After taxes would be just 13k.

I told him that would only hold us for awhile. He said than if it’s only a band aid than you better just go with the solution. File.

I just feel so trapped. Is this an unusual situation? Or do you think a lot of spouses would suggest this to their partners?
 
I’m just going to reply with the same anthem over and over again Lori.

No, it’s not common. No, your husband is not a well-adjusted adult in any way, shape or form. No, you will never become rich from writing your books and you’ll just damage your soul. No, becoming rich will not fix your husband’s problems; he will just find something else about which to generally freak out.

Yes, you’re being manipulated and probably emotionally and spiritually abused. Yes, you need to do something to protect yourself and your child from this situation.
 
“I told him that would only hold us for awhile. He said than if it’s only a band aid than you better just go with the solution. File.”

Can you make your minimum payments? If so, don’t file for bankruptcy.

If your husband is unwilling to live on your income, even bankruptcy is not a permanent solution. You only get to file at certain intervals (every 7 years?) and I think your husband is entirely capable of running you into insolvency again much faster than that.
 
You are right. He does a darn good job of making me feel like I am the one avoiding reality. He is a good salesman… And the reason I need to come here for objectivity… Is prob the same reason I need to leave.
The_Bucket said:
I’m just going to reply with the same anthem over and over again Lori.

No, it’s not common. No, your husband is not a well-adjusted adult in any way, shape or form. No, you will never become rich from writing your books and you’ll just damage your soul. No, becoming rich will not fix your husband’s problems; he will just find something else about which to generally freak out.

Yes, you’re being manipulated and probably emotionally and spiritually abused. Yes, you need to do something to protect yourself and your child from this situation.
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LorilopezInneed said:
You are right. He does a darn good job of making me feel like I am the one avoiding reality. He is a good salesman… And the reason I need to come here for objectivity… Is prob the same reason I need to leave.
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Good salesmen don’t lie or distort the truth to make a sale.

You have been describing a manipulator, and if I’m reading your depiction correctly, he’s going to be that in any situation where it will get him the better end of the deal. He will be whatever he thinks will get him the better end of* any* deal. Failing that, he may well work so that if he doesn’t get the deal he wants, then everyone gets shafted, even the innocent. That is, either he gets the large end of the loaf, or there will be no loaf…I mean he could be that type for whom the phrase “cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face” was coined. Habitual and opportunistic liars are very dangerous people. Don’t ever forget that they cannot be trusted to do the right thing, even for their own sake.

I mean that although it is by no means certain, I would be very concerned that you are dealing with someone who lacks a conscience and who might become vindictive or a sabateur, if put into a corner. If you can read it discretely, check out Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door” and read it. Even if your husband does not have an antisocial personality disorder, it will open your eyes to how great the difference can be between “the sales job” and the reality. It would do you well to learn these things and keep them in mind as you proceed. Even people you’d never think could hurt a fly can get the “divorce-induced anti-social personality”. Keep your eyes open, and don’t leave a flank exposed. Sorry, but the waters are likely to get very rough. You need to secure your vessel. He may well be a step ahead of you on that, already.
 
I believe you are right. He has been designing covers for my books and keeps texting me today about how proud he is of me because my writing is SO good it’s going to be “our future”.

He truly thinks my books will bring in the extra cash we need.

I did tell him I wanted to tone down the book, that all the sex made me uncomfortable. He said “ok” but if you do that… You’d better get that other book going too.

He is basically saying that I need to finish 2 now… Since it would possibly equal the same profit as ONE of the erotica books.

It’s a lot to put on me. And fortunately I’m starting to see it. I talked about it in therapy. I called all of his positive texts “supportive”. The therapist said is that really supportive? I said for him… Yes. It’s kind of him to say.

He said what “could” supportive look like? I thought for a bit and said… My husband offering to help bring in extra income or relieve the stress from my shoulders.

He said “bingo”.

It’s so hard for me to see thru the fog sometimes.
EasterJoy said:
Good salesmen don’t lie or distort the truth to make a sale.

You have been describing a manipulator, and if I’m reading your depiction correctly, he’s going to be that in any situation where it will get him the better end of the deal. He will be whatever he thinks will get him the better end of* any* deal. Failing that, he may well work so that if he doesn’t get the deal he wants, then everyone gets shafted, even the innocent. That is, either he gets the large end of the loaf, or there will be no loaf…I mean he could be that type for whom the phrase “cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face” was coined. Habitual and opportunistic liars are very dangerous people. Don’t ever forget that they cannot be trusted to do the right thing, even for their own sake.

I mean that although it is by no means certain, I would be very concerned that you are dealing with someone who lacks a conscience and who might become vindictive or a sabateur, if put into a corner. If you can read it discretely, check out Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door” and read it. Even if your husband does not have an antisocial personality disorder, it will open your eyes to how great the difference can be between “the sales job” and the reality. It would do you well to learn these things and keep them in mind as you proceed. Even people you’d never think could hurt a fly can get the “divorce-induced anti-social personality”. Keep your eyes open, and don’t leave a flank exposed. Sorry, but the waters are likely to get very rough. You need to secure your vessel. He may well be a step ahead of you on that, already.
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Nothing he’s writing to you is supportive. It’s manipulation disguised as positive feedback. As a reforming expert manipulator and the son of an extremely good manipulator (who parlayed those abilities into becoming a very successful businessman while completely destroying his wife and severely damaging his children), trust me when I say I can cut through that fog instantly.

I should note that I’m not a particularly good liar. I’m not good at hiding things. Not really anyway. But I was extraordinarily good at ensuring everything went my way. I’d make the emotional cost far too great for anyone else to even consider something I didn’t like. That’s not to say I was always like this. Nope. I certainly did things out of the goodness of my heart and didn’t count the cost. Sadly, that was not my general modus operandi though. More like the somewhat rare exception. I’m sure those exceptions would have winked out of existence soon enough had God not intervened on my behalf though.
 
Patavium said:
Lori,

I am sorry, but that is not supportive.

Supportive is not leading you to OFFEND Jesus Christ.

Supportive is not to tell you to turn off reality and live in Dream World…

Supportive? No. He is not supportive.

Supportive is going to Financial counseling, Marriage Counseling, Spending less, Take additional work, etc…
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Well you are right. Yesterday I did the paperwork for the bankruptcy. I told my husband I wanted to let the 550.00 car payment go in the bankruptcy and use a bit of 401k loan to buy an older used car. He got really upset. He has told me that there is nothing “safe” under 13k that he can find and has all but demanded that I keep the car.

I have thrown every option at him and he has continuously refused.

He also told me that I should start looking for a new job back in a state without a state income tax because we can never get ahead in our state.
 
“I told my husband I wanted to let the 550.00 car payment go in the bankruptcy and use a bit of 401k loan to buy an older used car. He got really upset. He has told me that there is nothing “safe” under 13k that he can find and has all but demanded that I keep the car.”

You’re on the right track with the car. There’s no point in going through bankruptcy if you’re going to keep that $550 car payment.
 
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