Declaration of Pope Francis and Archbishop Justin Welby

[ComplineSanFran]

Much progress has been made concerning many areas that have kept us apart. Yet new circumstances have presented new disagreements among us, particularly regarding the ordination of women and more recent questions regarding human sexuality. Behind these differences lies a perennial question about how authority is exercised in the Christian community. These are today some of the concerns that constitute serious obstacles to our full unity. While, like our predecessors, we ourselves do not yet see solutions to the obstacles before us, we are undeterred. In our trust and joy in the Holy Spirit we are confident that dialogue and engagement with one another will deepen our understanding and help us to discern the mind of Christ for his Church.

The Joint Pilgrimage is now in Rome - 36 Bishops and the Archbishop of Canterbury with the Pope - and their statement has just been released. Best part? the beautiful pictures of the two together. Much love and respect between them.

http://www.anglicannews.org/ImageGe...op-welby-iarccum-vespers-161005.png&width=460

anglicannews.org/news/2016/10/common-declaration-of-pope-francis-and-archbishop-justin-welby.aspx

 

[Peter_J]

Best part? the beautiful pictures of the two together.

That’s kind of sad, if you think about it.

 

[Peter_J]

P.S. Sorry if I’m being a downer (I even felt like a downer when posting the preceding) but after reading the OP I couldn’t help thinking: go to any discussion forum on the internet and what do you see? Anti-Catholic posts from Protestants. Anti-Protestant posts from Catholics. More potent than a little photograph.

And discussion forums are thriving.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The Joint Pilgrimage is now in Rome - 36 Bishops and the Archbishop of Canterbury with the Pope - and their statement has just been released. Best part? the beautiful pictures of the two together. Much love and respect between them.

http://www.anglicannews.org/ImageGe...op-welby-iarccum-vespers-161005.png&width=460

anglicannews.org/news/2016/10/common-declaration-of-pope-francis-and-archbishop-justin-welby.aspx

Yes…they do have a wonderful rapport. They each began their respective ministry in early 2013 and that created a special bond they share.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

P.S. Sorry if I’m being a downer (I even felt like a downer when posting the preceding) but after reading the OP I couldn’t help thinking: go to any discussion forum on the internet and what do you see? Anti-Catholic posts from Protestants. Anti-Protestant posts from Catholics. More potent than a little photograph.

And discussion forums are thriving.

I am completely undisturbed by that. The musings of people at that level were never of any interest to me over the years I was involved in dialogue before retiring. The dialogue at the national and international levels were where we have seen the most remarkable of developments theologically. Where there are enlightened people, there have been wonderful advances at lower levels, in terms of the practical and that is important in its own way.

The fact that, at some lower level, there are those who hurl invective at each other is not meaningful in the grand scheme of things. It has always been so in the history of mankind. The fact that the Pope and the head of the Lutheran World Federation will inaugurate later this month a joint commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation that will go on for many months and will be observed locally by Catholic and Lutheran clerics jointly around the world is historic in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Hatikvah]

The fact that, at some lower level, there are those who hurl invective at each other is not meaningful in the grand scheme of things. It has always been so in the history of mankind. The fact that the Pope and the head of the Lutheran World Federation will inaugurate later this month a joint commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation that will go on for many months and will be observed locally by Catholic and Lutheran clerics jointly around the world is historic in the grand scheme of things.

Good post, Father!

 

[Padres1969]

The Joint Pilgrimage is now in Rome - 36 Bishops and the Archbishop of Canterbury with the Pope - and their statement has just been released. Best part? the beautiful pictures of the two together. Much love and respect between them.

http://www.anglicannews.org/ImageGe...op-welby-iarccum-vespers-161005.png&width=460

anglicannews.org/news/2016/10/common-declaration-of-pope-francis-and-archbishop-justin-welby.aspx

Indeed the two of them are an amazing tangible example of Christian unity despite difference. Much respect to both men for looking past what separates them and focusing on what unifies them.

 

[Shirtless]

Yes…they do have a wonderful rapport. They each began their respective ministry in early 2013 and that created a special bond they share.

I visited Canterbury Cathedral in 1990, and I have stood at the spot where King Henry II’s soldiers murdered St. Thomas a Becket. There is a commemorative marker there because, in about May, 1982, Pope John Paul II and Robert Runcie, then the Archbishop of Canterbury, knelt in prayer there.

 

[boomerang]

The fact that the Pope and the head of the Lutheran World Federation will inaugurate later this month a joint commemoration of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation that will go on for many months and will be observed locally by Catholic and Lutheran clerics jointly around the world is historic in the grand scheme of things.

What are we to make of this, though? Are we celebrating?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Standing side by side to bless.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

What are we to make of this, though? Are we celebrating?

I think we are marking the event of the Reformation. And repenting on both sides. And then standing together, side by side as followers of Christ, to celebrate.

 

[Upgrade25]

What are we to make of this, though? Are we celebrating?

I couldn’t. Heresy is not worthy of celebration in my mind. But though I disagree with the prudential actions of the Pope sometimes, I get where he’s coming from, and don’t want to disobey the Church. He speaks from a language of love for Christ grown by years of prayer and sacrifice, of which I know only the words, not the heart.

 

[Peter_J]

I am completely undisturbed by that. The musings of people at that level were never of any interest to me over the years I was involved in dialogue before retiring. The dialogue at the national and international levels were where we have seen the most remarkable of developments theologically. Where there are enlightened people, there have been wonderful advances at lower levels, in terms of the practical and that is important in its own way.

The fact that, at some lower level, there are those who hurl invective at each other is not meaningful in the grand scheme of things. It has always been so in the history of mankind.

I try to see it that way, but occasionally I don’t. Sometimes it just feels like the Church is on trial, and the lay activists are her judges.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I try to see it that way, but occasionally I don’t. Sometimes it just feels like the Church is on trial, and the lay activists are her judges.

We have been on trial from the very beginning…from when Peter and the others emerged from the Cenacle on Pentecost, after the Spirit’s descent, making bold proclamations as the Spirit prompted them…which drew the retort from onlookers that they were drunk.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I couldn’t. Heresy is not worthy of celebration in my mind. But though I disagree with the prudential actions of the Pope sometimes, I get where he’s coming from, and don’t want to disobey the Church. He speaks from a language of love for Christ grown by years of prayer and sacrifice, of which I know only the words, not the heart.

This planning for this commemoration began under Pope Benedict. I remember when the planning began. There was such excitement that it was being planned under a German Pope.

The initiatives we see today go back to the Council, which marked a new era and a turning of the page…thanks be to God.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

What are we to make of this, though? Are we celebrating?

That point has already been articulated by the Holy See, specifically PCPCU.

It is also well explained in From Conflict to Communion

*1. In 2017, Lutheran and Catholic Christians will commemorate together the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Reformation. Lutherans and Catholics today enjoy a growth in mutual understanding, cooperation, and respect. They have come to acknowledge that more unites than divides them: above all, common faith in the Triune God and the revelation in Jesus Christ, as well as recognition of the basic truths of the doctrine of justification.

1. Already the 450th anniversary of the Augsburg Confession in 1980 offered both Lutherans and Catholics the opportunity to develop a common understanding of the foundational truths of the faith by pointing to Jesus Christ as the living center of our Christian faith. On the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther’s birth in 1983, the international dialogue between Roman Catholics and Lutherans jointly affirmed a number of Luther’s essential concerns. The commission’s report designated him “Witness to Jesus Christ” and declared, “Christians, whether Protestant or Catholic, cannot disregard the person and the message of this man.”
2. The upcoming year of 2017 challenges Catholics and Lutherans to discuss in dialogue the issues and consequences of the Wittenberg Reformation, which centered on the person and thought of Martin Luther, and to develop perspectives for the remembrance and appropriation of the Reformation today. Luther’s reforming agenda poses a spiritual and theological challenge for both contemporary Catholics and Lutherans.
3. Every commemoration has its own context. Today, the context includes three main challenges, which present both opportunities and obligations: (1) It is the first commemoration to take place during the ecumenical age. Therefore, the common commemoration is an occasion to deepen communion between Catholics and Lutherans. (2) It is the first commemoration in the age of globalization. Therefore, the common commemoration must incorporate the experiences and perspectives of Christians from South and North, East and West. (3) It is the first commemoration that must deal with the necessity of a new evangelization in a time marked by both the proliferation of new religious movements and, at the same time, the growth of secularization in many places. Therefore, the common commemoration has the opportunity and obligation to be a common witness of faith.
4. Relatively early, 31 October 1517 became a symbol of the sixteenth-century Protestant Reformation. Still today, many Lutheran churches remember each year on 31 October the event known as “the Reformation.” The centennial celebrations of the Reformation have been lavish and festive. The opposing viewpoints of the different confessional groups have been especially visible at these events. For Lutherans, these commemorative days and centennials were occasions for telling once again the story of the beginning of the characteristic— “evangelical”—form of their church in order to justify their distinctive existence. This was naturally tied to a critique of the Roman Catholic Church. On the other side, Catholics took such commemorative events as opportunities to accuse Lutherans of an unjustifiable division from the true church and a rejection of the gospel of Christ.

/…/

1. The year 2017 will see the first centennial commemoration of the Reformation to take place during the ecumenical age. It will also mark fifty years of Lutheran–Roman Catholic dialogue. As part of the ecumenical movement, praying together, worshipping together, and serving their communities together have enriched Catholics and Lutherans. They also face political, social, and economic challenges together. The spirituality evident in interconfessional marriages has brought forth new insights and questions. Lutherans and Catholics have been able to reinterpret their theological traditions and practices, recognizing the influences they have had on each other. Therefore, they long to commemorate 2017 together.
2. These changes demand a new approach. It is no longer adequate simply to repeat earlier accounts of the Reformation period, which presented Lutheran and Catholic perspectives separately and often in opposition to one another. Historical remembrance always selects from among a great abundance of historical moments and assimilates the selected elements into a meaningful whole. Because these accounts of the past were mostly oppositional, they not infrequently intensified the conflict between the confessions and sometimes led to open hostility.
3. The historical remembrance has had material consequences for the relationship of the confessions to each other. For this reason, a common ecumenical remembrance of the Lutheran Reformation is both so important and at the same time so difficult. Even today, many Catholics associate the word “Reformation” first of all with the division of the church, while many Lutheran Christians associate the word “Reformation” chiefly with the rediscovery of the gospel, certainty of faith and freedom. It will be necessary to take both points of departure seriously in order to relate the two perspectives to each other and bring them into dialogue*
   vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Standing side by side to bless.

This gesture will be repeated at the end of the month, in Lund…with Bishop Younan of the LWF and then by all of us who will co-preside at the joint services of common prayer in dioceses all around the world.

How delighted I am, after so many years, to live to see this moment with the Lutherans and the joint commemoration as also with the Anglicans. It is an epic month.

As I look at this photo, I praise and thank God for His gift of Pope Saint John XXIII and of Blessed Pope Paul VI…and, to be sure, His Grace The Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Fisher and his successor, His Grace The Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Ramsey. Those first steps, under the promptings of the Holy Spirit, continue.

Thank you for sharing these, ComplineSanFran.

 

[abucs]

I see the protestant rebellion from the Church of Christ as a very bad thing not just for Christianity but for England particularly.

It seems that we are picking up the pieces now. Interesting to see if it will be possible.

It might be that the Anglican communion will have to pick up a lot of their own pieces first, if that is possible.

In the mean time it is right to pray and encourage those separated from the Church of Christ.

 

[Peter_J]

We have been on trial from the very beginning…

Ah. I can’t argue with that.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I see the protestant rebellion from the Church of Christ as a very bad thing not just for Christianity but for England particularly.

It seems that we are picking up the pieces now. Interesting to see if it will be possible.

It might be that the Anglican communion will have to pick up a lot of their own pieces first, if that is possible.

In the mean time it is right to pray and encourage those separated from the Church of Christ.

But that is not what is happening in Rome this week and with the Lutherans as we come to the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, as Don Ruggero has pointed out ad infinitim. Perhaps if you can begin to look at the images here, read the words coming from YOUR branch of Christ’s Church, and pray that we continue to live the Gospel together, then all this will continue be a part of God’s joy.