Decline of Church

[eamonnroma]

I hope that this is the correct place to post…

I am talking about the decline in numbers of people attending church.

Ratzinger once said:

"It (the Church) will become small and will have to start pretty much all over again. It will no longer have use of the structures it built in its years of prosperity. The reduction in the number of faithful will lead to it losing an important part of its social privileges.” It will start off with small groups and movements and a minority that will make faith central to experience again. “It will be a more spiritual Church, and will not claim a political mandate flirting with the Right one minute and the Left the next. It will be poor and will become the Church of the destitute.”

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-el-papa-pope-benedetto-xvi-benedict-xvi-benedicto-xvi-22434/

I can confirm that many churches in UK have become health spas, pubs, restaurants, apartments etc, as they are sold off through lack of use. Also in Italy the number of de-consecreated churches are growing.

dailykos.com/story/2015/01/13/1357344/-Empty-Churches-Go-On-Sale-in-Europe-as-Christian-Faith-Declines

Should we continue just as we are doing? Or should we begin to realize that we need someway to change? By change I do not mean changing any doctrine. Maybe change the way we live and present the Church?

The Church in Italy has failed to grasp that Italy is no longer a Catholic country, and that it is in fact a missionary territory, and needs to be treated as such.

To be honest, in society, in Europe, Faith is becoming more and more a non entity, and is generally ridiculed. That is what makes me think that Ratzinger was correct all of those years ago.

becker-posner-blog.com/2012/06/why-are-americans-more-religious-than-europeans-posner.html

 

[Billy112]

I always hate to see de-consecrated churches. I am not experienced in this and have grown up during this time when the Church doesn’t have the social standing it used to, so I wouldn’t know. I just think it’s important to always remember the passage of Jesus calming the storm. No matter how bleak it looks, Jesus is in the boat.

 

[chimo]

Perhaps God will do a wonderful thing to help His struggling Church? There is a very good reason why God has these one billion Moslems in this world. When the Church in the West will come to fail Him as it is now will not God than call in the Moslems into the Church? Will not these Moslems who will become Christian do a better job than what those in the West have failed to do for Him? To help those who are disobedient in the West God may call in other peoples to become Christian.There is great reports of the Lord Jesus visiting many Moslems in their dreams asking them to become Christian and they are responding to His invitations. If God is help Islam to embrace Christianity it will come mostly through signs and wonders and the Lord because of the situation we find ourselves in the West will choose the right time to do this. Jesus had said in the Gospels that many signs from Heaven will help His Church. Perhaps these dreams are a the start of something that He will do even with a bigger sign? Did not the Lord Jesus had given the cross in the sky at the right time to help His persecuted Church when Constantine saw and believed? Will not God help us even when it seems we are losing so much? God will help and we can help Him by sticking to His Church even when it is seems there might be no hope. There is always hope and we can contribute to this hope by praying more than we are use to. Take up the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy and allow God to do the rest if you want this change to come quicker.

 

[smead2942]

I hope that this is the correct place to post…

I am talking about the decline in numbers of people attending church.

Ratzinger once said:

"It (the Church) will become small and will have to start pretty much all over again. It will no longer have use of the structures it built in its years of prosperity. The reduction in the number of faithful will lead to it losing an important part of its social privileges.” It will start off with small groups and movements and a minority that will make faith central to experience again. “It will be a more spiritual Church, and will not claim a political mandate flirting with the Right one minute and the Left the next. It will be poor and will become the Church of the destitute.”

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-el-papa-pope-benedetto-xvi-benedict-xvi-benedicto-xvi-22434/

I can confirm that many churches in UK have become health spas, pubs, restaurants, apartments etc, as they are sold off through lack of use. Also in Italy the number of de-consecreated churches are growing.

dailykos.com/story/2015/01/13/1357344/-Empty-Churches-Go-On-Sale-in-Europe-as-Christian-Faith-Declines

Should we continue just as we are doing? Or should we begin to realize that we need someway to change? By change I do not mean changing any doctrine. Maybe change the way we live and present the Church?

The Church in Italy has failed to grasp that Italy is no longer a Catholic country, and that it is in fact a missionary territory, and needs to be treated as such.

To be honest, in society, in Europe, Faith is becoming more and more a non entity, and is generally ridiculed. That is what makes me think that Ratzinger was correct all of those years ago.

becker-posner-blog.com/2012/06/why-are-americans-more-religious-than-europeans-posner.html

The age of casual Catholicism is over. The Church Militant must be Catholic by conviction.

Relativism, modernism, and other heresies have infected the modern Church. Many cardinals, bishops, and priests have fallen to them. There have been times in the past where those Catholics faithful to Church tradition have been reduced to a handful, and have had to take a stand against the majority in support of the Truth (paraphrased quote by Saint Athanasius). I believe history is about to repeat itself in that regard.

I suggest reading Lord of the World.

 

[marymary1975]

I think this is very sad, particularly as to Europe. Once a very catholic continent now losing its faith. However I think this has happened because, unfortunately, the Church whenever is tracked they take a step back and don’t defend themselves. The church tends to take the position that because we are holders of the truth and the truth will win at the end we are going to leave everybody attack us and we will let everybody beat us while we just sit back without defending ourselves. Also I think the anti life movement unfortunately outsmarted the church. They decided to attack families knowing that that would affect the church and I think the church took too long before it started to react against the attack. I think the church needs to start being more outspoken and defend themselves better.

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t think it’s true that the Church (at least not the whole Church) has failed to grasp it. This is what the “New Evangelization” is all about: evangelizing those places that were historically Christian but are now “post-Christian.”

 

[marymary1975]

I don’t think it’s true that the Church (at least not the whole Church) has failed to grasp it. This is what the “New Evangelization” is all about: evangelizing those places that were historically Christian but are now “post-Christian.”

Now they are grasping it but they took too long. This phenomenon did not start 10 or 20 years ago. It started back in the 50’s and back then while they opposed it it was a very weak opposition. While the anti life movement started a huge activism during the 50’s and developed a massive strategy to change people’s mind, the church was slow to react and even today you don’t see Catholics or the church doing half of the activism and campaign that the anti life movement does. Sincerely I don’t think church expected such a success from the anti life movement hence their slow response. Now we are at the post christian stage and they are running to take action but we are years behind the secular movement andneed a sstrong response to it.

 

[GEddie]

In the ancient past, people were Catholic because of personal conviction.

Then their descendants were Catholic because the society required it.

In recent times, they were Catholic because their family expected it.

Now, they will again be Catholic because of personal conviction.

Not a tragedy, just a return to the starting point.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[OraLabora]

In the ancient past, people were Catholic because of personal conviction.

Then their descendants were Catholic because the society required it.

In recent times, they were Catholic because their family expected it.

Now, they will again be Catholic because of personal conviction.

Not a tragedy, just a return to the starting point.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The only question: in the early Church, personal conviction led to martyrdom. Will we face a new era of martyrs for the Church? I think we’re getting a bit of a foretaste of that; more than once have I been ridiculed for my Catholic convictions.

I’ve had to sit through many a lunchroom break listening to someone slag the Church which is partly why, in the later years of my career before retirement, I took my lunches alone and went for walks instead.

Martyrdom I think starts with impugning someone’s character for being Catholic: first their character is assassinated. I believe it’s a downhill slide from there, until the Catholic him/herself is assassinated, which is already happening (ISIS, India, Pakistan, etc.)

 

[Tomdstone]

I hope that this is the correct place to post…

I am talking about the decline in numbers of people attending church.

Ratzinger once said:

"It (the Church) will become small and will have to start pretty much all over again. It will no longer have use of the structures it built in its years of prosperity. The reduction in the number of faithful will lead to it losing an important part of its social privileges.” It will start off with small groups and movements and a minority that will make faith central to experience again. “It will be a more spiritual Church, and will not claim a political mandate flirting with the Right one minute and the Left the next. It will be poor and will become the Church of the destitute.”

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-el-papa-pope-benedetto-xvi-benedict-xvi-benedicto-xvi-22434/

I can confirm that many churches in UK have become health spas, pubs, restaurants, apartments etc, as they are sold off through lack of use. Also in Italy the number of de-consecreated churches are growing.

dailykos.com/story/2015/01/13/1357344/-Empty-Churches-Go-On-Sale-in-Europe-as-Christian-Faith-Declines

Should we continue just as we are doing? Or should we begin to realize that we need someway to change? By change I do not mean changing any doctrine. Maybe change the way we live and present the Church?

The Church in Italy has failed to grasp that Italy is no longer a Catholic country, and that it is in fact a missionary territory, and needs to be treated as such.

To be honest, in society, in Europe, Faith is becoming more and more a non entity, and is generally ridiculed. That is what makes me think that Ratzinger was correct all of those years ago.

becker-posner-blog.com/2012/06/why-are-americans-more-religious-than-europeans-posner.html

However, more and more Muslim mosques are being built and Islam is growing quite fast.

 

[Dorothy]

I always hate to see de-consecrated churches. I am not experienced in this and have grown up during this time when the Church doesn’t have the social standing it used to, so I wouldn’t know. I just think it’s important to always remember the passage of Jesus calming the storm. No matter how bleak it looks, Jesus is in the boat.

Yes He is! Thank you for saying that.

Saint John Paul II said there will be a new springtime in the Church.

Believers need to allow Our Lord Jesus Christ to sanctify us more and more, so that others will recognize the Truth of Christ in us.

 

[eddie_too]

I am not sure whether or not the Church will thrive in the next few generations.

I believe it will. however, to do so it is necessary for it to adapt its teachings (the manner in which it teaches, the words and imagery it uses in its teachings, not the content) to the modern gestalt.

humanity, taken as a whole, is currently interacting with the world in a manner never before experienced by the Church. recognition of this was what motivated the convening of Vatican II.

prior to the 20th century, communication and transportation resulted in relative insularity among human beings. for this reason, it was relatively easier for the Church to maintain its impact and influence on its flock. challenges to the Church were fewer and reached fewer people. with the advent of modern technology, such as TV, the internet, radio, audio tapes, video tapes, etc., etc., etc., the Church came face to face with challenges to its teachings from essentially every tom, dick and harry who could string two or more words together. nonsense became ubiquitous among and within human communities because it was present to an extent never previously seen. the impact of the proliferation of nonsense is what the modern Church must address. how to address it is the million dollar question. I doubt that continuing to use the methods, the language and the techniques that served the Church so well over the last millennia or so will prove to be a winning strategy.

clearly the magisterium is still struggling to fully (or fully enough) comprehend what is occurring. naturally, as a consequence, there is a diminishment of faith and of the faithful.

yet it remains that the Church has Jesus as its head and possesses the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. for these reasons, we should not despair as we see an apparent repudiation of the Church and its teachings by the masses. God remains in control and the Church has not completed the mission for which He created it.

 

[Casilda]

Relativism, modernism, and other heresies have infected the modern Church. Many cardinals, bishops, and priests have fallen to them. There have been times in the past where those Catholics faithful to Church tradition have been reduced to a handful, and have had to take a stand against the majority in support of the Truth (paraphrased quote by Saint Athanasius). I believe history is about to repeat itself in that regard.

Sad to have to see the tipping point has long past, when that majority sees no need for the truth, instead see everything needs to stay right on keel. Let’s pray and hope those being called today to serve, be it new priests, religious, contemplatives, pray for us all. The whole world will be watching, listening, for the outcome of this upcoming synod. May God help us.

 

[TK421]

Shortly before God converted me to Catholicism, I remember reading an article that said “Christianity isn’t declining in America, it’s just being clarified”.

The writer’s central point is that if we look at Church attendance & participation from 1980 to the present, that actually has pretty much stayed even. What has decreased is the number of people identifying themselves as Christian.

In other words, in the 80s (and perhaps earlier) you had a bunch of people with either no or highly irregular participation in church life but still identified as Christian, and now you have more people that don’t go to church simply stating that they aren’t Christian. I don’t know how accurate that is specifically for the Catholic Church. I know immigration at the moment is what is keeping us from being a declining group. There are a lot of people that identify as ex-Catholics. Among my mom’s four sisters, we have two uncles that married into the family that were raised Catholic. Once they married into the family that upbringing died pretty quickly. I was too young to ever know that, and I only seriously reflected on it all these years later in my late 20s. They both go to evangelical churches now, and have for a long, long time. Having met my uncle’s families, neither of them are particularly charismatic, and their virtue is wanting. My mom’s & sister’s family are… well… better I think, in spite of their incompleteness of divine truth. My standard of “better” is that I think they are a closer reflection of the Trinitarian life.

The situation can be summarized as “exasperating”. You have two men that left the Catholic Church, which objectively is always a very, very bad thing, and yet subjectively in their own lives, they have both considerably improved in virtue compared to their upbringing.

 

[GEddie]

Sad to have to see the tipping point has long past, when that majority sees no need for the truth, instead see everything needs to stay right on keel. Let’s pray and hope those being called today to serve, be it new priests, religious, contemplatives, pray for us all. The whole world will be watching, listening, for the outcome of this upcoming synod. May God help us.

Cows tip, the world doesn’t.

Despite the masses thinking that Facebooking and sexual exploration make their life more stable and substantial, it is all a mirage, and a thousand million people, seeking cool refreshment, are about to get a mouthful of dust.

The Church should be ready for that. If not, the Muslims will be.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Marie5890]

People have to chose to have faith. It can’t be forced on them.

That is why the church is in decline. People are chosing not to have faith or to believe in the teachings of the church.

And like it or not, there are teaching of the Church that people simply disagree with, therefore they don’t have faith, which leads to decline.

People want SSM, people want to use contraception. People dont want to keep sexual relations within the bonds of marriage. The list goes on and on.

People simply dont’ believe in and support those kinds of teachings. So the Church declines.

 

[Tomdstone]

People have to chose to have faith. It can’t be forced on them.

That is why the church is in decline. People are chosing not to have faith or to believe in the teachings of the church.

And like it or not, there are teaching of the Church that people simply disagree with, therefore they don’t have faith, which leads to decline.

People want SSM, people want to use contraception. People dont want to keep sexual relations within the bonds of marriage. The list goes on and on.

People simply dont’ believe in and support those kinds of teachings. So the Church declines.

Many other ecclesial communities allow contraception for married couples under certain circumstances.

 

[Marie5890]

Many other ecclesial communities allow contraception for married couples under certain circumstances.

And in that sense, people see choices other than the Catholic Church, choices that reflect more of what they believe if they do have faith.

The idea of objective truth, spiritually speaking, isn’t a motivating factor. Many people see faith and belief as a matter of personal opinion, not objective truth.

 

[Tomdstone]

And in that sense, people see choices other than the Catholic Church, choices that reflect more of what they believe if they do have faith.

The idea of objective truth, spiritually speaking, isn’t a motivating factor. Many people see faith and belief as a matter of personal opinion, not objective truth.

How does anyone know what is the objective truth in religion. For example, is it objectively true that unbaptized babies go to limbo? Is it objectively true that capital punishment is wrong today?

 

[GEddie]

How does anyone know what is the objective truth in religion. For example, is it objectively true that unbaptized babies go to limbo? Is it objectively true that capital punishment is wrong today?

Some wouldn’t know objective truth if it hit them in the face; and studying philosophy can make matters worse rather than better.

ICXC NIKA