Decline of Church

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I am in Ireland, for around 15 years now, I arrived here as the first wave of child abuse scandals hit and I honestly cannot blame anyone who no longer supports the Church here. They have brought it on themselves and as one dear faithful man I know says, " They have let us down…" There cannot be a family here not affected in some way. The way head? Not sure. Really not sure. The priesthood and the orders are dying daily literally.
 
Many other ecclesial communities allow contraception for married couples under certain circumstances.
The Catholic Church allows for natural family planning, when necessary, and it requires prayer and discipline to practice it. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for His sacraments, His teachings and all the authoritative teachings of His Church! All of that enables us to carry out His Will, which is for our sanctification!
 
The first Christians lived in a hostile pagan world where the Church and Christian belief were reviled and held in low esteem. Yet they remained faithful and the Church blossomed and grew. At other periods in the past 2 milleniums, it has seemed that the Church was finished but a faithful remnant held firm and there was always a rebirth.

We’re blessed, not cursed, to live in these challenging times. Are we up to the task?
 
I am in Ireland, for around 15 years now, I arrived here as the first wave of child abuse scandals hit and I honestly cannot blame anyone who no longer supports the Church here. They have brought it on themselves and as one dear faithful man I know says, " They have let us down…" There cannot be a family here not affected in some way. The way head? Not sure. Really not sure. The priesthood and the orders are dying daily literally.
Clericalism is a terrible blight on the faith. The Irish were once among the most stalwart and faithful of all nations. The clergy and religious abused the goodwill of the Irish people for so long, that the people rebelled and cast off that yoke. The Church has it’s clergy and hierarchy to thank for that. It’s time the hierarchy ate some crow and began a humble rebuilding by returning to basics. Thank God there are lots of Poles and Filipinas in Ireland now. They may be the ones to keep the faith alive there.
 
The Catholic Church allows for natural family planning, when necessary, and it requires prayer and discipline to practice it. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for His sacraments, His teachings and all the authoritative teachings of His Church! All of that enables us to carry out His Will, which is for our sanctification!
It is a simple fact that the majority of Catholics, at least in the western world, use artificial birth control. How do we know that as a simple fact? Just look at catholic families. There are almost no more the large families of old. We no longer see families with 12 children. People have become more responsible.

Here are the statistics for worldwide birthrates

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2127.html

These statistics are not just for catholics, but are per country, so therefore we need to look at the traditional catholic countries.

Italy 1.43 children; Ireland 1.99; San Marino 1.49; Malta 1.54; Poland 1.33; and so on…

Interestingly the Phillipines are over 3.

People have voted with their feet. I have never, or cannot remember ever, heard a sermon or mention about not using contraception, at any Mass.

This is the reality.
 
It is a simple fact that the majority of Catholics, at least in the western world, use artificial birth control. How do we know that as a simple fact? Just look at catholic families. There are almost no more the large families of old. We no longer see families with 12 children. People have become more responsible.

Here are the statistics for worldwide birthrates

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2127.html

These statistics are not just for catholics, but are per country, so therefore we need to look at the traditional catholic countries.

Italy 1.43 children; Ireland 1.99; San Marino 1.49; Malta 1.54; Poland 1.33; and so on…

Interestingly the Phillipines are over 3.

People have voted with their feet. I have never, or cannot remember ever, heard a sermon or mention about not using contraception, at any Mass.

This is the reality.
Many Moslem countries have much higher rates:
Afghanistan 5.3
Burkina Faso 5.9
Iraq 4.12
 
I am in Ireland, for around 15 years now, I arrived here as the first wave of child abuse scandals hit and I honestly cannot blame anyone who no longer supports the Church here. They have brought it on themselves and as one dear faithful man I know says, " They have let us down…" There cannot be a family here not affected in some way. The way head? Not sure. Really not sure. The priesthood and the orders are dying daily literally.
There is a “way head” to be sure, but it will involve the local clergy eating some crow, as someone remarked, and the Church going into somewhat of an abeyance for one or two generations. It will come back however, as faith is intrinsic to human life.

Really, what happened in Ireland is an example of what happens when the Church and the civil state get too cozy together. Members of the Church then inevitably take advantage of the state’s power of coercion to their own advantage. Then the backlash hits like a tsunami.

It is comparable to what happened historically, though with far more violence, in France (late 1700s) and Mexico (early 1900s).

However decried by religious-conservative types, the separation of church and state, in the American pattern, is a crucial safeguard for the Church.

ICXC NIKA
 
However decried by religious-conservative types, the separation of church and state, in the American pattern, is a crucial safeguard for the Church.

ICXC NIKA
I don;t think that is what was taught by the Roman Catholic Popes. For example,
DILECTISSIMA NOBIS (On Oppression of the Church of Spain)
Pope Pius XI
Encyclical promulgated on 3 June 1933.
 
Oh, I don’t know - seems to me that the shepherd was fairly clear that he was leaving the 99 to go find the one…😃

However, I do understand what you are saying. Life is not a “numbers” game.
 
Many other ecclesial communities allow contraception for married couples under certain circumstances.
That is correct; the Anglican community, in the Lambeth conference of 1930 decided that under certain circumstances within the marriage, that they would approve contraception.

Fast forward to the issuance of Humanae Vitae, and the Catholic Church was the only major church to still hold that contraception was morally wrong.

And interestingly, some of the evangelical churches have been revisiting that decision; it appears that some of them have been able to see the carnage which has come forth from those decisions.

85 year to connect the dots - yeah, you might think after all those decades, 2 + 2 might equal 4.

Who knows - some of them might even begin to look at some other things the Church has been saying, and find that the Church speaks the Truth.
 
How does anyone know what is the objective truth in religion. For example, is it objectively true that unbaptized babies go to limbo? Is it objectively true that capital punishment is wrong today?
How do they know whqt is the objective truth? They read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that’s how.

it is only when they are so personally dishonest with themselves that they cannot admit that the reason they oppose so much of what the Church teaches is that they want to grovel in their sinful ways. As has been said for millennia, there is always something that is attractive about sin; if there wasn’t, none of us would bother sinning.

But instead, we go out and wallow in it.
 
Clericalism is a terrible blight on the faith. The Irish were once among the most stalwart and faithful of all nations. The clergy and religious abused the goodwill of the Irish people for so long, that the people rebelled and cast off that yoke. The Church has it’s clergy and hierarchy to thank for that. It’s time the hierarchy ate some crow and began a humble rebuilding by returning to basics. Thank God there are lots of Poles and Filipinas in Ireland now. They may be the ones to keep the faith alive there.
There might be some in Boston who think that Ireland is the 51st state; but it is truly a European country; isolated somewhat from the virulent form of secularism which the Continent has suffered; but in the last 50 years they have become more and more secular as they have become less and less isolated - and to that you can all thank the media in its array of formats.

It actually took some work to sit down and read a book or a news paper. Now with the visual explosion which started with television and then PCs and the internet, everyone is just about connected to everyone else. And that is the door through which Ireland has walked, along with everyone else. Poland, too, is seeing the secularization of its youth; and they in turn will become the parents of the next generation… and the worm turns.
 
There is a “way head” to be sure, but it will involve the local clergy eating some crow, as someone remarked, and the Church going into somewhat of an abeyance for one or two generations. It will come back however, as faith is intrinsic to human life.

Really, what happened in Ireland is an example of what happens when the Church and the civil state get too cozy together. Members of the Church then inevitably take advantage of the state’s power of coercion to their own advantage. Then the backlash hits like a tsunami.

It is comparable to what happened historically, though with far more violence, in France (late 1700s) and Mexico (early 1900s).

However decried by religious-conservative types, the separation of church and state, in the American pattern, is a crucial safeguard for the Church.

ICXC NIKA
Sadly, there are still clergy who don’t “get the message”. Pope Francis has had on more than a rare occasion spoken to the clergy, from the parish on up the ladder, about clericalism. And I will just leave it at that, lest I get my foot firmly inserted in my mouth.
 
Clericalism is a terrible blight on the faith. The Irish were once among the most stalwart and faithful of all nations. The clergy and religious abused the goodwill of the Irish people for so long, that the people rebelled and cast off that yoke. The Church has it’s clergy and hierarchy to thank for that. It’s time the hierarchy ate some crow and began a humble rebuilding by returning to basics. Thank God there are lots of Poles and Filipinas in Ireland now. They may be the ones to keep the faith alive there.
Faith in what though? And eg the Poles have their own mass, their own community. They tend not to mix. The priesthood is all but finished here, and they do not have the humility to bring in eg asian priests Also sadly Ireland is deeply racist.
 
There is a “way head” to be sure, but it will involve the local clergy eating some crow, as someone remarked, and the Church going into somewhat of an abeyance for one or two generations. It will come back however, as faith is intrinsic to human life.

Really, what happened in Ireland is an example of what happens when the Church and the civil state get too cozy together. Members of the Church then inevitably take advantage of the state’s power of coercion to their own advantage. Then the backlash hits like a tsunami.

It is comparable to what happened historically, though with far more violence, in France (late 1700s) and Mexico (early 1900s).

However decried by religious-conservative types, the separation of church and state, in the American pattern, is a crucial safeguard for the Church.

ICXC NIKA
I think as do others that there will be an upsurge of eg Muslim faith now. More and more mosques being built and with a more generous and open approach to the increasing homelessness we are seeing here. Please do not use tsunami like that as this is not that but a gradual surge ( Lost family in the big tsunami) Speaking to the remaining religious as a non Irish is interesting… according to them they created Ireland and did nothing wrong.
 
The first Christians lived in a hostile pagan world where the Church and Christian belief were reviled and held in low esteem. Yet they remained faithful and the Church blossomed and grew. At other periods in the past 2 milleniums, it has seemed that the Church was finished but a faithful remnant held firm and there was always a rebirth.

We’re blessed, not cursed, to live in these challenging times. Are we up to the task?
Remember Constantine who allied the Church to the state and to riches and power… that was the erring road.
 
There is a “way head” to be sure, but it will involve the local clergy eating some crow, as someone remarked, and the Church going into somewhat of an abeyance for one or two generations. It will come back however, as faith is intrinsic to human life.

Really, what happened in Ireland is an example of what happens when the Church and the civil state get too cozy together. Members of the Church then inevitably take advantage of the state’s power of coercion to their own advantage. Then the backlash hits like a tsunami.

It is comparable to what happened historically, though with far more violence, in France (late 1700s) and Mexico (early 1900s).

However decried by religious-conservative types, the separation of church and state, in the American pattern, is a crucial safeguard for the Church.

ICXC NIKA
please excuse my typos! Old laptop and old lady make a fascinating combo!
 
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