Declining church attendance [Akin]

[otjm]

TMC I agree with you.

I think that the Church needs to start evangelizing Catholics. Preachers are important to the lifeblood of the church primarily for motivation to follow God’s word.

I know that most (if not all) Catholics do not come to Mass for the homily, but in my opinion it should be one of the reasons to go. The church has not done as good of a job as the evangelicals on producing preachers.

When I was pentecostal, one of the things we used to have were revivals. During these revivals which were usually a week long every night a traveling preacher would come in to preach. Usually these preachers were much better at preaching and inspiring that the local preacher. Maybe the church should have those priests and deacons that are known for their ability to preach travel from parish to parish. Just an idea.

We call them missions, when the traveling preacher comes around to the Parish; or retreats when the parishoners go to a location to stay for a couple of days.

 

[otjm]

Personally I think rather than dynamic speakers we need more devotion by our priests to the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Catholics wouldn’t leave for Protestant services if they understood what they were giving up. Show devotion, teach devotion, and Catholics won’t walk away never to come back, because someone can preach better.

What we need are priests on fire for Christ. If they have the zeal, the rest will come along.

There has been much said about the lack of reverence in the OF; but it is not because of the OF itself; it is because of how the priest says the Mass. Get one on fire for Christ, and you will get it. Reverence is not a matter of more complicated or less complicated rubrics; nor is it about Latin or English, or Gregorian Chant or sections of the Old or New Testament set to more modern music, nor of more elaborate prayers or those more sere; it is about reverence, and true reverance is not about a show of how long you stay down on your knee when you genuflect but rather is about your relationship with Christ. Give me a priest who is in love with Christ and I will show you true reverance. And surprisingly, good homilies. Maybe not erudite ones, but definitely solid ones.

And give a parish one of those priests, and it will spread throughout the parish.

 

[Strevel]

…in times of extreme danger and threat church attendance always rises…we are in the midst of Americas worst threat in all its history.and church attendance is down…wonder why? Could it be that vague teachings…the color of gray has taken precedance over black and white…as one so called ‘catholic’ deacon show host on a religion on the line sunday morning radio keeps saying…'no one is all bad…everyone has some good in him!" what nonsense…sure Hitler was a painter of sorts and a vegetarian…that is a plus I guess. As a former teacher in a ‘catholic’ small C high school I always had a large sign up rate…averaging some 30 students for each class (re: 150 total) because they always knew where I stood on all issues…young folks like honesty and integrity…cute songs belong on the boob tube …NIno

Me thinks thou logic is correct my friend.

People, myself included, do not appreciate obfuscation. ''Pax vobiscum.

 

[Cathryn]

What we need are priests on fire for Christ. If they have the zeal, the rest will come along.

There has been much said about the lack of reverence in the OF; but it is not because of the OF itself; it is because of how the priest says the Mass. Get one on fire for Christ, and you will get it. Reverence is not a matter of more complicated or less complicated rubrics; nor is it about Latin or English, or Gregorian Chant or sections of the Old or New Testament set to more modern music, nor of more elaborate prayers or those more sere; it is about reverence, and true reverance is not about a show of how long you stay down on your knee when you genuflect but rather is about your relationship with Christ. Give me a priest who is in love with Christ and I will show you true reverance. And surprisingly, good homilies. Maybe not erudite ones, but definitely solid ones.

And give a parish one of those priests, and it will spread throughout the parish.

Many Protestant pastors are genuienly on fire for Christ. Our Catholic pastors need to be on fire for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They need to show this devotion and teach it. This is what the Catholics have that the Protestant don’t have. This is how to keep Catholics from becoming Protestants looking for a good sermon. This can be taught even in broken English along with the reverence of their gestures no matter what form the Mass is said in.

 

[ERose]

We call them missions, when the traveling preacher comes around to the Parish; or retreats when the parishoners go to a location to stay for a couple of days.

I don’t doubt tha it happens in some places but I have never seen it occur unless it is a Bishop that visits your parish.

Concerning retreats that is when Catholics go and look for revitalization. What I am talking about is for the Church to come to the Catholics to help revitalize them.

 

[ERose]

Many Protestant pastors are genuienly on fire for Christ. Our Catholic pastors need to be on fire for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They need to show this devotion and teach it. This is what the Catholics have that the Protestant don’t have. This is how to keep Catholics from becoming Protestants looking for a good sermon. This can be taught even in broken English along with the reverence of their gestures no matter what form the Mass is said in.

I agree with you, and if they are on fire for the real presence of Christ they should be willing to proclaim his teachings with sincerity and fire.

The preaching part is not just for Catholics (even though we desperately need it), but it is also for the non-Catholics that visit our church.

When these people visit our church they will not know of the Real Presence of our Lord unless they hear it come out of the mouth of our priests.

But it is not just the priest that need to get on fire but it is the lay people as well. If we had the devotion to the success of our church as the Mormans or Jehoveh Witnesses (which don’t have the full truth as we do) then most of this world would be Catholic. The world is waiting for us to step up and show them Christ!

 

[chicago]

When I was pentecostal, one of the things we used to have were revivals. During these revivals which were usually a week long every night a traveling preacher would come in to preach. Usually these preachers were much better at preaching and inspiring that the local preacher. Maybe the church should have those priests and deacons that are known for their ability to preach travel from parish to parish. Just an idea.

That used to be what parish missions were commonly known for. And there were even groups of priests (such as the Redemptorists) who were dedicated to preaching for just these sort of things.

 

[impalass]

There is no one reason why church attendance is down. I was raised a catholic and attended a catholic school in the 50s and 60s. My parents were catholic and this was their choice to raise me a catholic, just like a Jew, Muslim, Hindu etc teach their children their beliefs. I remember people walking out of church in 1965 when the church indicated artificial birth control was not acceptable. Today high percentage of catholics practice birth control against the churhes teachings. Currently in the US whether we like it or not Abortion is legal and almost as many catholics are pro choice as the general population. Thats a fact. I myself am pro life but not because the church says so. The 1980s the church indicated it wasn’t a mortal sin anymore not to attend sunday mass. From that time onward people weren’t living in fear anymore of not attending sunday mass. 1983 it wasn’t a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday anymore. Eat all you want!. Too bad for all those that were condemned to hell previous to this change. The church quietly dropped St Christoper from the patrant saint list and thousands of other saints. The church indicated most were just legands and probably never existed. Thousands of St Christopher medals/cards still sold every year. Just a few months ago the Pope indicated that their is no LIMBO. All previous Popes and clerics including catholic nuns, school teachers and parents prayed to the babies in Limbo. Were we told a lie! Now the vatican says it never existed. The sex abuse scandal is a world wide epidemic and has gone on quietly for centuries. Not only should the priests/bishops involved be in jail but all catholic clerics who were aware of any priest sexually abusing children should also be punished. July 2007 the Pope indicated that protestants are defective people and their churches not real churches. Many of my friends are protestant and not for one moment will I accept the churhes ruling on that! Rediculous!

These reasons and many more have eroded the value of the church and its teachings and have sent millions of former church attending catholics to the sidelines. Going to mass on sunday doesn’t make you a good catholic/christian. Being a good person every day is most important. I have found that I believe there is a God, but a God for ALL not just followers of the catholic church or Jesus, and most people are slowly realizing this.

Its not just church attendance in western cultures that is eroding but men and women within the church are not answering the call to become priests/nuns. Why? Same reasons I mentioned above. Parishes in western cultures are closing at an alarming rate for lack of attendance and no priest in the parish. Each of the many reasons that I mentioned at the beginning have a negative affect on individuals and once you have left most likely will never return.

The church has changed too quickly for the laity. Back in the 50s & 60s we were taught punishment was Gods way. Today the church has changed that and make God the loving/forgiving God. You can’t fool the educated people today, and progressively lower church attendance every year is the proof.

Today the church has very little clout compared to the past. A very few years from now the church will become a much smaller entity and as new generations come along they are less religiously obsorvent that will one day make the church a thing of the past.

 

[dallas]

Walking_Home:

---

I agree.
What happened was Vatican II.

 

[jmcrae]

What happened was Vatican II.

There was wide-spread bad preaching and poor Mass attendance before then - in fact, one of the reasons the Council was called in the first place, was because it was widely recognized that a radical revitalization of the Church was called for.

I have even heard it said that Vatican II was the best thing that ever happened to the Tridentine Mass - the reverence of the Tridentine Mass has improved by incredible leaps and bounds since then.

 

[Cathryn]

Declining church attendance is also a direct result of contraception and abortion and divorce and a break down of the family among Catholics.

 

[TMC]

Declining church attendance is also a direct result of contraception and abortion and divorce and a break down of the family among Catholics.

Cathryn, I hear this all the time. I’m not saying its not true, because I don’t know. But I wonder why, then, have the Protestants not experienced the same thing? At the same time that Catholic church attendance was declining, the evangeglicals adn fundamentalists (who are with us on abortion and divorce, if not contraception) were doing fine? Or am I wrong about that?

 

[Cathryn]

Cathryn, I hear this all the time. I’m not saying its not true, because I don’t know. But I wonder why, then, have the Protestants not experienced the same thing? At the same time that Catholic church attendance was declining, the evangeglicals adn fundamentalists (who are with us on abortion and divorce, if not contraception) were doing fine? Or am I wrong about that?

Yes, it is the conservative fundamentalists who are with us on abortion and divorce etc. that are doing fine. Protestant churches tend to be either liberal or conservative, not having strong elements of both as the Catholic Church does. The conservative Protestant churches are thriving and the liberal Protestant churches are in trouble.

I think conservative Catholics, are less likely to disregard Church teaching about artificial contraception and manage to have a stronger Christ centered family unit, even accepting the concept of the husband being the head of the family, as Christ is the head of the Church, and accepting the authority of the Church in matters of faith and morals. I think conservative Catholics parallel conservative Protestants to a large degree in being the growing population in the pews. They also tend to be the main population at daily Mass.

 

[Cathryn]

I would also like to add that if it wasn’t for the immigrants from over the border in Mexico, our US Catholic Church would be much more empty. We would have the empty churches of Europe and be making museums out of them. Abortion and contraception have had a devastating effect on our society. Many children over the last forty years have never been born that would be in the pews today.

 

[dallas]

There was wide-spread bad preaching and poor Mass attendance before then - in fact, one of the reasons the Council was called in the first place, was because it was widely recognized that a radical revitalization of the Church was called for.

I have even heard it said that Vatican II was the best thing that ever happened to the Tridentine Mass - the reverence of the Tridentine Mass has improved by incredible leaps and bounds since then.

There was war and persecution back then as well and probably at it’s worst (which would account for bad attendance.) The bottom line is Vatican II was brought in by a group of Protestant men to reform the old Roman Catholic Church’s Tridentine Mass and is known today as the Novus Ordo Mass (name taken from the back of the dollar bill-proving it has joined the one global church). The people just accept it without noticing the differences which include loss of faith, family dissention, marraiges falling apart, children in defiance etc… The novus ordo offers no Sacraments to it’s teachings only initiations (very important to realize the differences) Again the bottom line is that obedience is the highest form of worship to God! We must remain true to the true Roman Catholic Church and it’s teachings.

 

[otjm]

I don’t doubt tha it happens in some places but I have never seen it occur unless it is a Bishop that visits your parish.

Concerning retreats that is when Catholics go and look for revitalization. What I am talking about is for the Church to come to the Catholics to help revitalize them.

there are a number of “itenerant” preachers available; how you find them I don’t know, but I have never seen a bad one yet. Some are better than others. Most are in orders, so perhaps starting with an order and asking is a way to find out.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

The 1980s the church indicated it wasn’t a mortal sin anymore not to attend sunday mass. From that time onward people weren’t living in fear anymore of not attending sunday mass. 1983 it wasn’t a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday anymore. Eat all you want!.

Just a few months ago the Pope indicated that their is no LIMBO. Were we told a lie! Now the vatican says it never existed.

July 2007 the Pope indicated that protestants are defective people and their churches not real churches. Many of my friends are protestant and not for one moment will I accept the churhes ruling on that!

Do you have access to the written vactican documents for these new rulings? I’ve never heard of such things. Ever!

For the record the protestant churches ruling, understood in context is identical to Church teaching through out history. Nothing new.

I sounds as if you are really angry at the Church for some reason. Whats really bothering you?

 

[Cathryn]

there are a number of “itenerant” preachers available; how you find them I don’t know, but I have never seen a bad one yet. Some are better than others. Most are in orders, so perhaps starting with an order and asking is a way to find out.

We have a parish retreat once a year. A priest comes to the parish. This year we had a priest from the Fathers of Mercy www.fathersofmercy.com Father David Wilton gave the retreat on the Abandonment to Divine Providence. He was wonderful. It also gives our over worked Pastor who is the only priest a needed break for the week.

 

[bobzills]

The 1980s the church indicated it wasn’t a mortal sin anymore not to attend sunday mass.

I am surprised to hear that it is no longer a mortal sin if you don’t attend Sunday Mass? I didn’t know that this rule had been changed.

 

[otjm]

There is no one reason why church attendance is down. I was raised a catholic and attended a catholic school in the 50s and 60s. My parents were catholic and this was their choice to raise me a catholic, just like a Jew, Muslim, Hindu etc teach their children their beliefs. I remember people walking out of church in 1965 when the church indicated artificial birth control was not acceptable. Today high percentage of catholics practice birth control against the churhes teachings. Currently in the US whether we like it or not Abortion is legal and almost as many catholics are pro choice as the general population. Thats a fact. I myself am pro life but not because the church says so.

The Church most definitely does say so.

The 1980s the church indicated it wasn’t a mortal sin anymore not to attend sunday mass. From that time onward people weren’t living in fear anymore of not attending sunday mass.

I don’t think you will find anywhere that the Church has said then, before then, or since then that the obligation to attend Mass on Sunday no longer applies. You may have individuals in the Church - lay teachers or an occasional priest - who may have said that, but you need to distinguish what some individual who purports to teach relgion has said, from what the Church says officially.

1983 it wasn’t a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday anymore. Eat all you want!. Too bad for all those that were condemned to hell previous to this change.

No one has been condemned to hell in 2000 years by the Church. The obligation to abstain from meat on Friday arose at a time when meat was much more a luxury item than a staple. Not observing the rule of abstinence was objectively a mortal sin; but the mortal sin was the sin of disobedience to a Church rule. The rule was made by the Church - it was not from the 10 Commandments - and as such could be dispensed by the Church.

The church quietly dropped St Christoper from the patrant saint list and thousands of other saints. The church indicated most were just legands and probably never existed. Thousands of St Christopher medals/cards still sold every year.

Yes, but I doubt people have stopped coming to Mass because of St Christopher or any other popular saint.

Just a few months ago the Pope indicated that their is no LIMBO. All previous Popes and clerics including catholic nuns, school teachers and parents prayed to the babies in Limbo. Were we told a lie! Now the vatican says it never existed.

You need first to read what the Pope actually said; second, you need to read why he said it. You were not taught a lie, but you were led to believe that you were taught a doctrine; it wan’t. It was just the best answer that theologians had come up with concerning the need for baptism and what happens to unbaptized babies. It is a little more complex than you were taught. Now the vatican says it never existed. July 2007 the Pope indicated that protestants are defective people and their churches not real churches. Many of my friends are protestant and not for one moment will I accept the churhes ruling on that! Rediculous!Again, you need to read what he actually said and why. It is not rediculous; but it is a technical statement.

Parishes in western cultures are closing at an alarming rate for lack of attendance and no priest in the parish.

I can’t speak for the western world, but in the US in 1965 there were 17,637 parishes. In 2006 there were 18,584; so while some parishes have been closed, more have opened than closed; that has to do with demographics. You are right that there are fewer priests.