Declining church attendance [Akin]

[THurifer2]

It is not a sin today to miss mass on Sunday. .

You are spreading Heretical information. THe church does indeed teach that missing a mass on Sunday IS a Mortal sin. I wonder how many souls read your post and now have been mislead into damnation?

 

[ERose]

There was war and persecution back then as well and probably at it’s worst (which would account for bad attendance.) The bottom line is Vatican II was brought in by a group of Protestant men to reform the old Roman Catholic Church’s Tridentine Mass and is known today as the Novus Ordo Mass (name taken from the back of the dollar bill-proving it has joined the one global church). The people just accept it without noticing the differences which include loss of faith, family dissention, marraiges falling apart, children in defiance etc… The novus ordo offers no Sacraments to it’s teachings only initiations (very important to realize the differences) Again the bottom line is that obedience is the highest form of worship to God! We must remain true to the true Roman Catholic Church and it’s teachings.

I think that you are listening to the wrong people. You need to get a copy of writings of Vatican II and read them to discover how wrong you are.

Concerning the post Vatican II mass and the sacraments, I have no problem finding God there. If you are then you need to examine yourself and ask why that is the case. For it is not the rituals that we use today.

 

[ERose]

It is not a sin today to miss mass on Sunday. The catholic church relaxed the law for eating meat on Friday back in 1983. Where have you been? Good Friday is now the day that is observed for those not to eat meat and Ash Wednesday I believe.

Earlier this year the Pope (vatican) indicated that protestants are defective people and their churches not real churches. Please google… Pope defective… and learn all about it. Most everyone already knows that. July 2007 the Pope indicated that their is no Limbo and never was…please google… Pope limbo… and learn. Its obvious you have had your head in the sand too long.

Angry with the church?......No.  Just don't believe a lot of what they preach anymore.  Thats why the pews are emptying.

Please check out the information I posted above. Your out of the loop.

1.) It is still a mortal sin to purposely miss Mass on Sundays.

1. The Pope never said that Protestants are defective people but Christians are are separated from the true church of God. Churches in the eyes of the Catholic Church are places that we go to celebrate the sacrifice of the Mass which most protestants do not believe in.
2. Concerning limbo the Pope did not abolish the concept just said that there is no doctinal basis for the concept of limbo which by the way has never been an official doctrine of the Church.

 

[ERose]

We would be better off without organized religion. All it preaches is hatred to non believers…I don’t think that is Gods plan.

No you are wrong. The hatred is the human element. Christ and our religion teaches to love our neighbor as ourselves. Sometimes that gets forgotten somewhere. Yes you are correct there is alot of hatred out there that uses religion as its excuse. But the hatred does not come from the religion it comes from the people in it.

 

[ERose]

Living in fear is not for me or most baptized catholics. Thats why church attendance is declining rapidly and most don’t go. SCARE TACTICS! and narrow minded brain cleansing.

 Not confused. No No!   More open minded and accepting of my equals as you should be.   Thats what I taught my children.  Thats what right!   Its really sad when I see people who put themselves above others belonging to an organization that instills fear, guilt and is about power & money.   Please take off the rose colored glasses.  Enjoy life and all that it offers.  Enough of this  the catholic church is right and everyone else is wrong.   Small world you live in.....very small world.

I don’t know what you perceive that the church did to you but it wasn’t the Church. It was people that did you wrong my friend. That quite regrettfully happens.

You have too much hate inside you. You are talking about Dallas (which by the way I am not aligning myself with) as being prejudice while you are doing the exact same thing. You are attacking the Catholic faith. You are telling us how much you hate our Church and that is not hatred? You want to tell us that all religions are good except for the Catholic church and that is not hatred?

What I am saying is hatred does not come from religion, it comes from something deep down inside an individual. Whatever it is you need to let it go or confront it because obviously eating you up inside.

 

[ERose]

Have you questioned your priest or bishop over the sex abuse scandal. The lies, the coverups, the Billion $ price tag so far. Probably not. They know whats right…Ya! I am sure that has sadend you deeply…and I correct?

Everywhere there are evil people even the church. Do I regret what happen? You bet I do. Do I wish that the handled the situation better? You bet I do.

But I do not blame the Church for this happening. I blame the evil men in sheep’s clothing that did these atrocities to these children.

 

[ERose]

That used to be what parish missions were commonly known for. And there were even groups of priests (such as the Redemptorists) who were dedicated to preaching for just these sort of things.

I would like to see them. (Not sarcasm) I do believe that this would help some. It will not be the complete cure, but it will help.

By the way thanks for the response.

 

[chicago]

I would like to see them. (Not sarcasm) I do believe that this would help some. It will not be the complete cure, but it will help.

By the way thanks for the response.

Your welcome.

They still are employed in places. I think that they can be refreshing and offer something different than the “same old” of the local pastors’ preaching which gets people out of their box. But, that said, most of the people who likely will attend are the ones that are already pretty committed to the faith, as it is.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

This report from the Barna Foundation might say something about why we seek declining church attendance: Most Americans Take Well-Known Bible Stories at Face Value

Survey respondents were asked if they thought a specific story in the Bible was “literally true, meaning it happened exactly as described in the Bible” or whether they thought the story was “meant to illustrate a principle but is not to be taken literally.” Six renowned Bible stories were then offered to adults for their consideration.

Surprisingly, the most significant Bible story of all - “the story of Jesus Christ rising from the dead, after being crucified and buried” - was also the most widely embraced. Three out of four adults (75%) said they interpreted that narrative literally, while only one out of five (19%) said they did not take that story literally. The more highly educated respondents were, the less likely they were to take the story literally, although even two-thirds of college graduates (68%) believe the resurrection narrative is literally true. One of the most substantial differences of opinion occurred between mainline Protestants (83% of whom take the resurrection literally) and non-mainline Protestants (among whom 95% accept the resurrection as fact). Overall, 82% of Catholics embrace the resurrection narrative as being true. Black adults were much more likely than either whites (74%) or Hispanics (80%) to consider the resurrection to be true.

If as much as 18% of Catholics (17% of mainline protestants) do NOT accept the key story of our faith, if our level of faith is basically the same as the population at large (only 19% do not accept this story, only a 1-2% variance, hardly significant), then it is no wonder that we don’t see much difference between the behavior of Christians and non-Christians in our culture, including church attendance.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Which country are you talking about because it certainly has not fallen everywhere. In Africa and Asia Mass attendence has not fallen. Here in the Philippines Mass attendence is estimated about 80%+.

kamusta, my fellow pinoy. its probably declining too because according to this source its only 68%

 

[byers]

Just my little 2 cents. I also grew up before vatican II and whatever happened ( and something surely did) but it started before the council even began. If I had to put a date on it I would say it was right around 1960…give or take.

I just recall how ‘all of the sudden’ they was so much rebellion and a rebellious attitude, disrespect for the clergy and religious, disobedience etc. That too was when the wave of priests and nuns leaving started.

Something was going on and it to me seems like it was “spiritual” more than anything else and very strongly was affecting Catholics. Some sort of ‘protection’ seemed removed or some restraint.

A great cultural revolution was also coming in about that time, but that also seemed to have more of an influence on catholics. At the same time massive persecutions were going on still in other parts of the world.

After the council it just seemed to get worse as the dissidents took over and it was a free-for-all. They tried to change and question everything! (in the spirit of vatican II of course) and good catechesis went out the window. However even with the older catechisms still around…something was changing there too.

I lived through it all…but I still can’t put my finger on just what happened, but I do know it was before the council that it began.
.

 

[Strevel]

My Catholic Parish is always full with people standing along the walls also. Families, kids, and a lot of friendly relationships.

It might be down in some places. It is UP in Las Vegas!!

Donj:thumbsup:

 

[impalass]

Just my little 2 cents. I also grew up before vatican II and whatever happened ( and something surely did) but it started before the council even began. If I had to put a date on it I would say it was right around 1960…give or take.

I just recall how ‘all of the sudden’ they was so much rebellion and a rebellious attitude, disrespect for the clergy and religious, disobedience etc. That too was when the wave of priests and nuns leaving started.

Something was going on and it to me seems like it was “spiritual” more than anything else and very strongly was affecting Catholics. Some sort of ‘protection’ seemed removed or some restraint.

A great cultural revolution was also coming in about that time, but that also seemed to have more of an influence on catholics. At the same time massive persecutions were going on still in other parts of the world.

After the council it just seemed to get worse as the dissidents took over and it was a free-for-all. They tried to change and question everything! (in the spirit of vatican II of course) and good catechesis went out the window. However even with the older catechisms still around…something was changing there too.

I lived through it all…but I still can’t put my finger on just what happened, but I do know it was before the council that it began.
.

I believe its just changing times. After the second world war especially in the United States education became much more important to people. A hundred years ago and before most people lived in poverty and depended on the church to guide them. The churches at the time were also by most part the governing forces. The 1960s was a time of change especially by the young.

Back in the day no one questioned the church. Attitudes are different today. I taught my children to question things, thats how you learn not just accepting what someone tells you.

During the 1960s the church emphasized their position on pre-marital sex, birth control, abortion, church attendance, gambling, divorce, masterbation, mixed marriages not only of two different faiths but of marrying someone of a different culture. Today few catholics adhere to these teachings of the church. I am sure most young people (catholic) have had sex before they were married. A sin according to the church. Most catholics have used or use a form of birth control that the church does not acknowledge, another sin. Masterbation a sin? My doctor told me that 90% of people masterbate and the other 10% lie. Churches teachings say its a sin. Surprisingly catholics are almost equal in accepting that abortion is ok as of the general public. The church teaches against abortion. During the 60s/70s many liberal minded men were ordained priests in the catholic church and many guilty catholics met with these priests and the priests often said “use your own conscience on many of these issues” (this was against the vaticans teachings. Today more then half of the priests in the USA believe they should have the option to marry. A higher percentage of catholics also believe this, but the Pope says no. If people are not adhering to the teachings of the church why attend church? If you don’t believe what they teach you have no business belonging. Find another faith that is more to your needs.

Today,  men are not answering the call  to become priests.  1960s over 88,000 priests in the USA.  Today  less then 45,000 The average priest age in the USA is 58 and growing. The sisterhood will die away within a generation, very, very few women are signing on.  The sex abuse scandal has rocked the churches credability worldwide.  This is not a USA problem, and not just a current problem.    Thousands of  so called good priests kept quiet of  the criminals who buggered our children.   Bishops/Cardinals  LIED AND COVERED UP THESE CRIMES,  by moving these preditors to other parishes only to abuse others.

 Church attendance in western Europe is dropping like a stone.  According to statistics only Islam is increasing in numbers there.   US figures show that approximately 1 in 4 catholics attend mass once a month, whereas in the 1950s it  was more then 3 of 4 who attended weekly.

  Times are a changing.

 

[impalass]

My Catholic Parish is always full with people standing along the walls also. Families, kids, and a lot of friendly relationships.

It might be down in some places. It is UP in Las Vegas!!

Donj:thumbsup:

Las Vegas is the fastest growing city in the USA. I am sure the people moving in by the thousands are faster then they could increase parishes to accomodate. Latest statistics in the USA indicate that about 1 in 4 catholics attend mass once a month. Back in the 50s when I was growing up it was closer to 3 in 4 attending every sunday.

Times and traditions change. Religion is basically a family tradition no matter what the faith. Parents indoctrinate their children at an early age and guide them in their own faith and belief structures as their parents before them did and so on. I was brought up the same way. I was never allowed to learn or know about other faiths growing up. My parents taught me that the catholic way is the only right way. My parents feared me straying I guess, or their own ignorance of others.and their traditional beliefs. Sort of brain cleansing.

Society today is much more liberal minded then in the past even in the catholic church. I remember back in the 1950s, if you were a female you had to wear a hat or kerchief on your head, in order to enter the church for any reason. That faded away. Nuns for centuries wore the traditional penquin habit that covered everthing in black and white, only their face was allowed to show. The 1970s young nuns started their own tradition and started dressing in more contemporary clothing. I know speaking to a former nun she stated that their were fights all the time in the convent between the old nuns and the new ones coming along. Generation gap thing I guess. Priests drove black cars only back then. Why? Kind of silly. It was a sin to eat meat on friday. How many adhere to that today? Not me!

Today most laity in the catholic church agree with making celibacy optional.  Most catholic laity believe women should be allowed to become priests.   More discention against the popes authority.   More reasons for a few not to attend mass when they have a different belief structure then the church authority.

I do believe the church has the right to make all the rules they want. Getting people to adhere to them is entirely different.

 

[byers]

impalass
Hey you’re right. I remember those days of “pray, pay and obey”.

The times they are a ‘changin’.

 

[impalass]

impalass
Hey you’re right. I remember those days of “pray, pay and obey”.

The times they are a ‘changin’.

Growing up I went to a catholic school. My parents took us to church every sunday. It was the right thing to do during those times, I guess.

As times moved ahead people changed and the catholic church has changed. I remember back in the day the nuns and priests drilling into our heads that un-baptized catholic babies went to a special place called Limbo. My parents also told me about this special place Limbo. It was the holding tank between purgatory and heaven. Last summer Pope Benedict indicated that Limbo doesn’t exist. It was just a theory. WHAT!. I was NEVER taught it was just a theory. I can’t imagine how many millions of catholic laity/priests/nuns/bishops/cardinals and popes for centuries went to their grave believing in Limbo. The Church has also quietly dropped St. Christopher from the patron saint list. Why? Because their was no St. Christopher in the bible that carried baby Jesus across a river with his burdoning sins as we WERE ALL TAUGHT. Several other so called saints have been dropped. It is now believed they never existed. Just google this information its readily available.

For a few centuries the Popes believed that the sun rotates around the earth… Educated people catholics or not knew this wasn’t true. But no one questioned the mighty Pope. I believe it was Pope John Paul II that finally apologized to the dead Galileo who proved this fact that the earth rotates around the sun, not the other way around.

Last July the Pope came out with a statement. Protestants are defective people and their churches are not real churches, because they do not accept the Pope as Gods spokesperson on earth. WHAT!. With nearly half of the US population protestant I am sure that doesn’t sit well with them. Only about 24/25% of catholics make up the USA population.

All of these flip flops by the catholic church (and there are many more I am sure)  noted above doesn't make their  credibility  look very good now does it.

These are a few other reasons why more catholics are not attending  church.

ps: St. Christopher medals and cards are still sold by the millions around the world and catholics believe in his power even though he never existed as the church once taught about him. (LOL)

Time for people to take stock of what they really believe.

 

[otjm]

I believe its just changing times. After the second world war especially in the United States education became much more important to people. A hundred years ago and before most people lived in poverty and depended on the church to guide them. The churches at the time were also by most part the governing forces. The 1960s was a time of change especially by the young.

Back in the day no one questioned the church. Attitudes are different today. I taught my children to question things, thats how you learn not just accepting what someone tells you.

During the 1960s the church emphasized their position on pre-marital sex, birth control, abortion, church attendance, gambling, divorce, masterbation, mixed marriages not only of two different faiths but of marrying someone of a different culture. Today few catholics adhere to these teachings of the church. I am sure most young people (catholic) have had sex before they were married. A sin according to the church. Most catholics have used or use a form of birth control that the church does not acknowledge, another sin. Masterbation a sin? My doctor told me that 90% of people masterbate and the other 10% lie. Churches teachings say its a sin. Surprisingly catholics are almost equal in accepting that abortion is ok as of the general public. The church teaches against abortion. During the 60s/70s many liberal minded men were ordained priests in the catholic church and many guilty catholics met with these priests and the priests often said “use your own conscience on many of these issues” (this was against the vaticans teachings. Today more then half of the priests in the USA believe they should have the option to marry. A higher percentage of catholics also believe this, but the Pope says no. If people are not adhering to the teachings of the church why attend church? If you don’t believe what they teach you have no business belonging. Find another faith that is more to your needs.

Today,  men are not answering the call  to become priests.  1960s over 88,000 priests in the USA.  Today  less then 45,000 The average priest age in the USA is 58 and growing. The sisterhood will die away within a generation, very, very few women are signing on.  The sex abuse scandal has rocked the churches credability worldwide.  This is not a USA problem, and not just a current problem.    Thousands of  so called good priests kept quiet of  the criminals who buggered our children.   Bishops/Cardinals  LIED AND COVERED UP THESE CRIMES,  by moving these preditors to other parishes only to abuse others.

 Church attendance in western Europe is dropping like a stone.  According to statistics only Islam is increasing in numbers there.   US figures show that approximately 1 in 4 catholics attend mass once a month, whereas in the 1950s it  was more then 3 of 4 who attended weekly.

  Times are a changing.

I pretty much agree with your first three paragraphs, but you might want to check your statistics sources. CARA, out of Georgetown U shows 35,925 Diocesan priests and 22,707 Religious priests for a total of 58,632 in 1965. For 2006, the last year in my report, there were 28,299 diocesan and 13,495 religious priests, for a total of 41,794.

A Gallup poll in 2003 indicates that on average, 40& of Catholics say they attended Mass within 7 days of being surveyed (compared to 74& in 1958). 3 polls by CARA in 2003 indicated that, on average, 33% said they attend Mass e3very week (note the difference in the two polls’ question), compared with 33% in 2000.

Your comment about thousands of priests abusing children; the abuse goes back to at least the 1950’s for cases that have been accepted - and a caveat needs to be made that with some older cases there was no corroborating evidence - and while no abuse is acceptable, the best anyone has been able to come up with in terms of accurate figures is that about 3% of all priests abused children - those pre puberty and those post puberty but under the age of legal consent. This issue has been hashed out elsewhere, but there has been no showing that the abuse has actually had an impact of any signifcance in terms of attendance.

 

[otjm]

Growing up I went to a catholic school. My parents took us to church every sunday. It was the right thing to do during those times, I guess.

As times moved ahead people changed and the catholic church has changed. I remember back in the day the nuns and priests drilling into our heads that un-baptized catholic babies went to a special place called Limbo. My parents also told me about this special place Limbo. It was the holding tank between purgatory and heaven. Last summer Pope Benedict indicated that Limbo doesn’t exist. It was just a theory. WHAT!. I was NEVER taught it was just a theory. I can’t imagine how many millions of catholic laity/priests/nuns/bishops/cardinals and popes for centuries went to their grave believing in Limbo. The Church has also quietly dropped St. Christopher from the patron saint list. Why? Because their was no St. Christopher in the bible that carried baby Jesus across a river with his burdoning sins as we WERE ALL TAUGHT. Several other so called saints have been dropped. It is now believed they never existed. Just google this information its readily available.

For a few centuries the Popes believed that the sun rotates around the earth… Educated people catholics or not knew this wasn’t true. But no one questioned the mighty Pope. I believe it was Pope John Paul II that finally apologized to the dead Galileo who proved this fact that the earth rotates around the sun, not the other way around.

Last July the Pope came out with a statement. Protestants are defective people and their churches are not real churches, because they do not accept the Pope as Gods spokesperson on earth. WHAT!. With nearly half of the US population protestant I am sure that doesn’t sit well with them. Only about 24/25% of catholics make up the USA population.

All of these flip flops by the catholic church (and there are many more I am sure)  noted above doesn't make their  credibility  look very good now does it.

These are a few other reasons why more catholics are not attending  church.

ps: St. Christopher medals and cards are still sold by the millions around the world and catholics believe in his power even though he never existed as the church once taught about him. (LOL)

Time for people to take stock of what they really believe.

St Christopher, Limbo, the sun and the statement concerning technical language are most likely so far down the list as to why people don’t go to Church as to never come up in any discussion or poll.
Faith should not bwe based on the issues you mention; rather, it should be based on answering the question that Christ asked: “Who do you say I am?” People whose faith is shaken ove an issue of technical definition of church are people who stopped learning about their faith when they were confirmed (and most were confirmed well before their senior year in high school).

Secularism and the general malaise in moral values, particularly sexual values, within society in general has had more impact on Catholics individually than any of the items you mention, or even the sum total of all you mentioned. People tend to act like their neighbors and their peers, and Catholics have not had only Catholics as their peers for decades.

 

[impalass]

St Christopher, Limbo, the sun and the statement concerning technical language are most likely so far down the list as to why people don’t go to Church as to never come up in any discussion or poll.
Faith should not bwe based on the issues you mention; rather, it should be based on answering the question that Christ asked: “Who do you say I am?” People whose faith is shaken ove an issue of technical definition of church are people who stopped learning about their faith when they were confirmed (and most were confirmed well before their senior year in high school).

Secularism and the general malaise in moral values, particularly sexual values, within society in general has had more impact on Catholics individually than any of the items you mention, or even the sum total of all you mentioned. People tend to act like their neighbors and their peers, and Catholics have not had only Catholics as their peers for decades.

I stand by what I said in an earlier post. Most people by faith are so because they were indoctrinated into the faith by their parents within a few months of birth. Organized religion by the most part is a family tradition not a real belief. A belief should mean you at an adult age look at all beliefs or non beliefs and make your own decision. Your neighbors might have a completely different faith only again by their family tradition. They believe their way is right, and it goes round and round. So when you talk about Christ you eliminate most people from eastern cultures who by the luck of the draw grew up believing something else? I don’t believe for a minute you have to believe in Jesus to be saved. Thats just fear that religion instills in people.

By being born into a western (christian culture) makes you special over others who were born into a different belief. Thats like saying white people are better then blacks by saying your way is the only right way and others of non christian beliefs are not up to par.

I don’t believe that for a minute. Having different opinions is on this view is very healthy.

If you learn a little more about Egyptian cultures from centuries before christianity you will see most of christian beliefs were copied from them.

 

[impalass]

I pretty much agree with your first three paragraphs, but you might want to check your statistics sources. CARA, out of Georgetown U shows 35,925 Diocesan priests and 22,707 Religious priests for a total of 58,632 in 1965. For 2006, the last year in my report, there were 28,299 diocesan and 13,495 religious priests, for a total of 41,794.

A Gallup poll in 2003 indicates that on average, 40& of Catholics say they attended Mass within 7 days of being surveyed (compared to 74& in 1958). 3 polls by CARA in 2003 indicated that, on average, 33% said they attend Mass e3very week (note the difference in the two polls’ question), compared with 33% in 2000.

Your comment about thousands of priests abusing children; the abuse goes back to at least the 1950’s for cases that have been accepted - and a caveat needs to be made that with some older cases there was no corroborating evidence - and while no abuse is acceptable, the best anyone has been able to come up with in terms of accurate figures is that about 3% of all priests abused children - those pre puberty and those post puberty but under the age of legal consent. This issue has been hashed out elsewhere, but there has been no showing that the abuse has actually had an impact of any signifcance in terms of attendance.

A few recent studies of church attendance was done and was found to be more accurate then the so called gallop polls.  If you google church attendance you will find that many people lie about attending church on a regular basis.  The gallop polls were done polling people.

A more accurate poll was done by actually getting the current records of catholics who are members of a particular diocese or parish and having polsters attend every sunday mass for three consecutive months. These statistics indicate that about 25% actually attend mass regularily. Just google church attendance and you will see that many catholics lie about attending as often as they say they do. I can’t make this stuff up. Check it out. Sometimes the truth hurts.

I don’t know why people refer to molesting priests as abusers. They are criminals. They took sexual advantage of a person under the legal age of consent. Even if the boy was older then consent whats a priest doing having homosexual sex or any sex at all. THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE CELIBATE. Its a requirement to be a priest. Its a MORTAL SIN. Lots of priests heading south after they die.

Sorry your 3% number is incorrect.   2004 I believe the John Jay College of Criminalogy did a study that was endorsed by the BISHOPS COUNCIL OF THE USA.   There study found that from 1950 until I believe 2003  4,450 priests had been up on charges for having sex with minors, thats from a total number of priests of approximately 100,000 during those 43 years.  this doesn't count the many that have gotten away with this because the victims were too afraid to go to authorities.   Thats 4.5% and not counting the hundreds that have been caught since 2003.  Remember Boston and Cardinal Law.  Disgraceful.  Lets not forget that many of these priests had molested many more times then once.

 I understand that currently 6 dioceses in the USA have filed for bankruptcy because of these financial burdens put on the church.  Its not the church that is paying.  Its the laity that puts their hard earned money on the collection plate everytime they attend mass.

 Before any of these sex scandals came to light I would bet that almost all catholics would believe that not  ONE PRIEST COULD HAVE HAD  SEX WITH A MINOR.   A priest in Pennsylvania was charged with growing marijuana behind the alter of his church.  Many other priests have been charged with stealing.  Just google priest stealing and read all about them.  There are many.

Google catholic scandal and you will see this is a world wide problem.   

If you had a sexual preditor in your neighborhood would you financially support him if you knew he lived in your area?  Of course not.   Catholics keep on giving to the church that harbored and hid these criminals within their parishes.   I also believe that any priest/bishop/cardinal who was aware that a child was being sexually abused by a priest should be charged with harboring a criminal.   In the real world charges would be laid for anyone hiding/lying or covering up such a crime.   Is the catholic church above the law?   It appears to be.

  The church has come up with the catchy phrase.   Well were only human.......what a joke.

Shame on the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

I want justice for anyone (or any organization) that covers up or lies about any HEINOUS CRIME. Its time we the laws were toughned.

I have a lot more sympathy for the victims of these crimes then those that make exuses up for the criminals within the church.

Am I bitter?..hell no. Fired up ya!