Declining population

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lax16

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It has come to my attention that due to the low birth rate in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. that Christians will no longer be the dominant religion in Europe (and other places as well). What would be the result if the Protestants were to return to the Catholic Church and all of the Catholics and Protestants were to follow the CC’s teaching on birth control. Could we turn it around?
 
lax16 said:
It has come to my attention that due to the low birth rate in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. that Christians will no longer be the dominant religion in Europe (and other places as well). What would be the result if the Protestants were to return to the Catholic Church and all of the Catholics and Protestants were to follow the CC’s teaching on birth control. Could we turn it around?
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A few things to look at.

First of all, the Reformation began 500 years ago, and neither side seems particularly interested in budging on that debate. Not saying that they shouldn’t be, but it doesn’t seem that Luther’s, Calvin’s, and Zwingli’s modern-day followers seem any more interested in rejoining Rome than Rome does in reclaiming them.

That said, what is far more disturbing than the fact that, as you have said, declining birth rates will lead to Christianity no longer being dominant, is the fact that we believe we must rely on birth rates to advance and grow the Church. While it is certainly evident that any true Christian would raise his or her family in the Faith, we should be evangelizing! Rather than sitting back and getting depressed about the growth of atheism and Islam in Europe, we should be energized to go forth and speak the Gospel to the millions of people who need to hear it!

We know that it is not by *our *efforts that men and women are converted to the true faith; it is an act of the Holy Spirit working in the hearts and minds of those who hear the Word preached rightly. But nonetheless, as Romans 10:14 asks us, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?”

I pray daily that all would be baptized and believe in our dear Lord Jesus Christ. Let us go forth and share His saving Gospel! 🙂
 
Nominefili said:
it doesn’t seem that Luther’s, Calvin’s, and Zwingli’s modern-day followers seem any more interested in rejoining Rome than Rome does in reclaiming them.
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This is not true. The Holy father and also the late Pope John Paul II make it their business to try to unite all christians universally for years with much resistance from protestants. Let us pray for the conversion of hearts to Jesus in fullness and truth.
 
Birth control is very sad, if not for anything but because it is meddling with the will of God. Ideally all Christians must take the position that artificial birth control is wrong and must value life and welcome children into their family.

Yes, there is still very much that can be done in the area of evangelization. Our young people are caught up in the culture of modernization and Godlessness. In that aspect it can be very depressing.

But the Church that Jesus started on earth will not be defeated and we just believe that God will be on our side. Again and again strong forces came to attack the Church but she would always pull through. There were always bad patches in the Church history but she managed to stay intact; though she maybe scathed she will never be defeated. And all the faithful say, “Come, Lord Jesus in your glory”.
 
Nominefili said:
Rather than sitting back and getting depressed about the growth of atheism and Islam in Europe, we should be energized to go forth and speak the Gospel to the millions of people who need to hear it!
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Indeed, this will be necessary if Europe is ever to become Christian again.

My sense is that Europe is largely post-Christian. Only 21% of Europeans say religion is important to them, compared to 59% in the US. And only 15% of Europeans attend a weekly religious service, compared to 45% of US residents. And news reports indicate a strong distrust of religion, with speculation that Muslim immigration will only increase the popularity of secularism.

Pope Benedict recognizes the need to re-evangelize Europe. Unfortunately, the recent scandals are likely to set back those efforts.
 
I am certainly not arguing with the statistics posted here, and those that are widely available, about the de-Christianization of Europe, but I will comment that in France, where I’m staying for a month, the devotion of those who do attend Mass is very edifying. Every church I’ve been to for Sunday Mass has been packed (and not with tourists), and daily Masses are very well attended. You’d never mistake me for a conservative, very traditional Catholic, but I have been touched by the reverence and devotion shown by these people, who represent all age ranges.
 
The secular moral compass is very flimsy and requires a lot of human will and effort to maintain or a very generous material condition to supplement (namely with distractions). It will not be long before the young people of Europe look at their countries and start trying to determine what went wrong: when and why? Europe’s roots and history, her former world leadership and glory is firmly entrenched with their formerly Catholic beliefs. The two cannot be seperated.

Europe’s cultural inheritance will stand as a testament to the Faith against a failing secularism. There is good reason to suspect and hope that Europeans will return to the Faith of their fathers… one day:)
 
lax16 said:
It has come to my attention that due to the low birth rate in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. that Christians will no longer be the dominant religion in Europe (and other places as well). What would be the result if the Protestants were to return to the Catholic Church and all of the Catholics and Protestants were to follow the CC’s teaching on birth control. Could we turn it around?
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I’m sorry, lax, I don’t see the connection vis a vie Catholics and Protestants uniting. Far more effective would be for the faithful to preach the gospel to those who do not believe it, rather than Protestants and Catholics endlessly debating each other. That is how Christians increase, not reducing birth control usage. (Though I agree with the CC’s position on the issue.)
 
TriuneUnity said:
I’m sorry, lax, I don’t see the connection vis a vie Catholics and Protestants uniting. Far more effective would be for the faithful to preach the gospel to those who do not believe it, rather than Protestants and Catholics endlessly debating each other. That is how Christians increase, not reducing birth control usage. (Though I agree with the CC’s position on the issue.)
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TriuneUnity - The connection being that there would be more of us having lots of kids and raising them in the faith.

Do you think many Protestants and Catholics endlessly debate each other - or is it just a CAF thing?🙂

No, the reason Italians, Germans, Spaniards, etc are in danger of extinction is because they are not having enough children to sustain their cultures. Having more children is an excellent way to increase Christians.

If it wasn’t effective, then the Muslims wouldn’t be taking over through birth rate (do the research, it is not my opinion).
 
lax16 said:
It has come to my attention that due to the low birth rate in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. that Christians will no longer be the dominant religion in Europe (and other places as well). What would be the result if the Protestants were to return to the Catholic Church and all of the Catholics and Protestants were to follow the CC’s teaching on birth control. Could we turn it around?
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immigration contributes a large part of the growing Catholic congregation in North America. in the US, its mostly Latin Americans (Mexicans)

here in Canada, the third largest immigrant group is Filipinos, who are mostly Catholics. in most parishes, Filipinos dominate the numbers, depending on the particular neighborhood.

most poorer nations like the Philippines have higher birthrates, and then because of the situation in the country, people would want to migrate for better economic opportunities.

i don’t have the stats for Canada, but in the US i heard the number of Catholics is up, mainly because of migration. i think this was in one of thosse CNN specials i watched
 
lax16 said:
TriuneUnity - The connection being that there would be more of us having lots of kids and raising them in the faith.
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Yes; but that doesn’t have anything to do with Protestants becoming Roman Catholic.
Do you think many Protestants and Catholics endlessly debate each other - or is it just a CAF thing?🙂
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Probably a CAF thing. Although, there are organizations out there that spend untold amounts of money trying to convince Christians to join one church or another. The money would be better spent trying to reach non-Christians, instead of trying to get Protestants to become Catholic and vice versa.
No, the reason Italians, Germans, Spaniards, etc are in danger of extinction is because they are not having enough children to sustain their cultures. Having more children is an excellent way to increase Christians.
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Even if the Europeans did not use birth control at all, it wouldn’t mean more Christians. It would mean more secular Europeans. They have to have the gospel preached to them first. The European countries with the lowest birth rates are Catholic on paper. I agree that birth control and abortion have devastated the population.
 
TriuneUnity said:
Yes; but that doesn’t have anything to do with Protestants becoming Roman Catholic.

Even if the Europeans did not use birth control at all, it wouldn’t mean more Christians. It would mean more secular Europeans. They have to have the gospel preached to them first. The European countries with the lowest birth rates are Catholic on paper. I agree that birth control and abortion have devastated the population.
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It may not seem like it has anything to do with Protestants becoming Catholic - it was just a thought!🙂

You are right, we must not stop spreading the gospel.
 
lax16 said:
TriuneUnity - The connection being that there would be more of us having lots of kids and raising them in the faith.

Do you think many Protestants and Catholics endlessly debate each other - or is it just a CAF thing?🙂

No, the reason Italians, Germans, Spaniards, etc are in danger of extinction is because they are not having enough children to sustain their cultures. Having more children is an excellent way to increase Christians.

If it wasn’t effective, then the Muslims wouldn’t be taking over through birth rate (do the research, it is not my opinion).
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Its just a CAF thing but you do have your counterparts in the Protestant world.
 
4Squarebaby said:
Its just a CAF thing but you do have your counterparts in the Protestant world.
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It is better that we thrash it out here. The most it will do to us is getting us going bonkers and lose much needed good sleep as we hog unto the internet; time that should be better spent in prayers and with the family. Others would get at each other throats in the street which is far more worse and dangerous. 🤷
 
Nominefili said:
A few things to look at.

First of all, the Reformation began 500 years ago, and neither side seems particularly interested in budging on that debate. Not saying that they shouldn’t be, but it doesn’t seem that Luther’s, Calvin’s, and Zwingli’s modern-day followers seem any more interested in rejoining Rome than Rome does in reclaiming them.
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Disagree, Rome has entire ministries dedicated specifically to the reunification (total) of Christianity. Not just with your protestant folks, but also the Eastern and Oriental folks as well as the more recent schismatics like the SSPX and Sedeprivationism.
Nominefili said:
That said, what is far more disturbing than the fact that, as you have said, declining birth rates will lead to Christianity no longer being dominant, is the fact that we believe we must rely on birth rates to advance and grow the Church. While it is certainly evident that any true Christian would raise his or her family in the Faith, we should be evangelizing! Rather than sitting back and getting depressed about the growth of atheism and Islam in Europe, we should be energized to go forth and speak the Gospel to the millions of people who need to hear it!

We know that it is not by *our *efforts that men and women are converted to the true faith; it is an act of the Holy Spirit working in the hearts and minds of those who hear the Word preached rightly. But nonetheless, as Romans 10:14 asks us, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?”

I pray daily that all would be baptized and believe in our dear Lord Jesus Christ. Let us go forth and share His saving Gospel! 🙂
Click to expand...
I appriciate what you’re trying to say, but I humbly (or perhaps not so lol?) submit you are incorrect… Perhaps not in so much as a birthrate statisic alone, there could be many factors to explain this, but you’re dead wrong in your rejection of Gods plan being acceptable. And in your explaniation that rather than a warped view of sexuality being our problem, that a mere lack of evangalization is our problem.

Our warped views of sexuality is our problem, not only does it cause ramped depopulation, it also hinders evangalization. When we tell people we’re trying to evangalize “oh yeah, by the way you don’t have to pay attention to what God said about sexual morality” it makes our entire effort sound disingenous. Further more, if we allow for the kind of sexual immorality we are seeing today to continue, we will quite simply eventually run out of people. We’ll evenagalize the whole world, the whole world can embrased contraception, abortion et. al., seek sexuality purely in the context of a sensual act rather than a sacramental one and rampent depopulation will continue, only across the entire spectrum.
 
I feel like saying more people is maybe a little irresponsible as a way to get more people in churches. The world bears a heavy burden for the amount of people on it. The more responsible way to get more Christians is to encourage conversion and Evangilization. I don’t agree with the Catholic Churches position on birth control mostly because i feel it is incredibly irresponsible to quash condom use in countries with massive amounts of HIV and AIDS victims.
 
nhylan said:
I feel like saying more people is maybe a little irresponsible as a way to get more people in churches. The world bears a heavy burden for the amount of people on it. The more responsible way to get more Christians is to encourage conversion and Evangilization. I don’t agree with the Catholic Churches position on birth control mostly because i feel it is incredibly irresponsible to quash condom use in countries with massive amounts of HIV and AIDS victims.
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Are you really that convinced that condoms are necessary to end the AIDs epidemic? Or is it possible our culture has been indoctrinated to believe a lie?

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html
When Pope Benedict XVI commented this month that condom distribution isn’t helping, and may be worsening, the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa, he set off a firestorm of protest. Most non-Catholic commentary has been highly critical of the pope. A cartoon in the Philadelphia Inquirer, reprinted in The Post, showed the pope somewhat ghoulishly praising a throng of sick and dying Africans: “Blessed are the sick, for they have not used condoms.”
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Yet, in truth, current empirical evidence supports him.
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I would challenege you, and anyone who beleives as you do not only to read what the washington post had to say about this… But also go and dig up the primary sources, do the reasearch. At least as of a few months ago the original study (PDF) could be found online and read, it is quite illuminating. When read fairly, you realize that even in area’s where condoms are said to have “stopped AIDS” it turns out that significant changes in sexual behaviour also occured. The one constant in all area’s where AIDs has been succesfully curbed (inc abstinance only Uganda) is a change in sexual behaviour.
 
nhylan said:
I feel like saying more people is maybe a little irresponsible as a way to get more people in churches. The world bears a heavy burden for the amount of people on it. The more responsible way to get more Christians is to encourage conversion and Evangilization. I don’t agree with the Catholic Churches position on birth control mostly because i feel it is incredibly irresponsible to quash condom use in countries with massive amounts of HIV and AIDS victims.
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Surely agree with you 100%👍
 
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