Decriminalization and/or legalization of illicit drugs in the United States?

[Chris258]

Hello everyone,

My close friends and I have recently started arguing over this issue, sometimes quite passionately. I went on a search for Catholic thought concerning this issue but found very little hard information.

The closest thing was the Vatican’s release of “Church: Drugs and Drug Addiction” by the Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health Care Workers; unfortunately, only the preface is available online. It really is a pity, since, looking at the table of contents, it seems full of direct information.

At first when I engaged this issue, I was quite uninformed about the complexity of this debate. I thought perhaps decriminalization of marijuana might be worth trying, but the “harder” drugs (e.g. heroin, cocaine) should remain criminalized. After reading a bit on the deleterious effects and ineffectiveness of the “War on Drugs” in America, I found myself becoming much more sympathetic to the side of the debate calling for decriminalization of recreational drugs.

First of all, I am not here to debate the sinfulness of partaking of such recreational substances. I have not yet been convinced that use of any of the substances currently illicit in the U.S. escapes a sinful character. Just as drinking alcohol unto the end of drunkenness voluntarily is sinful, partaking of any drug unto the end of a judgment-impairing “high” would also have a sinful character. I will assume the sinfulness of the use of such substances, though the nature of the drugs’ effects themselves I believe is a much more complex and debatable issue.

The real issue that I am currently wrestling with has more to do with the incoherence and unwise nature of the U.S. drug policy.

I am not suggesting that we disobey the laws prohibiting drug possession and use; the government certainly has the prerogative to define contraband insofar as such definition does not infringe on the natural law. As both Jesus Christ and Paul instruct us, we ought to obey the ruling authorities, “for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” [Romans 13]

Ergo, while I believe Alcohol Prohibition in the 1920s was within the prerogatives of the U.S. government (after all, man is not morally obligated to consume alcohol), it was nonetheless a short-sighted and foolish decision by the government that should never have been established in the first place. A nation can and should punish grave evil that arises out of vice (e.g. drunk driving), but it is a foolish endeavor to effect any real change by punishing the vice itself. A government has a duty to legislate basic rights and freedoms for the basic and orderly functioning of society; it is doomed to failure and frustration when it attempts to legislate virtue (such as the virtue of temperance). Imagine if the U.S. government attempted to curtail the obesity epidemic in our country by criminalizing the sin of gluttony.

In the same vein, I think the decriminalization and/or legalization of Schedule I drugs merits serious consideration. For further clarification, such an alternative to the “War on Drugs” does not entail a free-for-all, complete drop of regulation of such substances. It would, of course, still not be allowable for workers to go to work under the influence of such substances, for instance. They would instead be regulated in some manner similar to alcohol.

I would like to discuss the possible alternatives to the War on Drugs, which has been a dismal failure. Not only has drug use become more prevalent and drugs more potent, civil liberties have also been eroded (e.g. it is a fact that if police receive an anonymous tip that you possess any of these drugs, they are fully able and allowed to kick in your door without announcing their presence and conduct a search of your home; this is only one example). If not some form of decriminalization and/or legalization of Schedule I drugs, how do you suggest we change U.S. drug policy for the better?

Unfortunately, I think most of the Church is still against any consideration of decriminalization of such substances by governing authorities. I fully agree with the Church’s firm stance on the destructive nature of many substances; however, I don’t believe a draconian ban on these substances and the criminalization of users is a reasonable or effective solution to the terrible problem of drug abuse.

 

[d97c]

It would be a huge mistake to legalize drugs. (same for decriminalizing). I was a prosecutor for 17 years in the state and federal system. I followed the “drug problem” politically, factually, and saw the problem from a personal relationship with police, informants, judges, juries and co-workers. I have vacillated from one opinion to the other, but I have studied the problem and am convinced that all of a sudden to tell kids “We were wrong” would be the worst thing to do… Here are some things to think about:

1. Here in my state, 80% of people in jail now are for a crime related to drug and/or alcohol abuse. Im not only talking about drug possession, but the crimes committed to get money or property to buy (or pawn for) drugs----- like theft, burglary, robbery, violence against persons. Ask people in prison how they got there. Drug abuse is the common answer.
2. To say the effors to stop drug use, sale, abuse or crimes that are related to drug abuse or possession has been a failure is not true. As a person who has gone into schools and talked to kids about it, I can tell you that there are plenty of kids who have not taken drugs due to the societal efforts to make it NOT cool to take them, whether it be “just say no,” Red Ribbon Days to Avoid Drugs or any other efforts throughout the decades to keep a kid from doing them. To now change the conventional wisdom to accept the legal opening of and advertising on TV for “Joe’s Pot Shop…Where You Can Get the Best Rocky Mountain High”…(for example), would be society telling kids, “wellll…never mind.” It would be to encourage drug use. You think legalizng prostitution wouldnt encourage the sin of prostitution?? You really want to see pot advertised and encouraged by a new societal blunder?? Kids are NOT stupid. Maybe the “war on drugs” has not kept everyone off drugs, BUT IT HAS MILLIONS, and we as a society OWE that to our kids.But changing the laws to make them legal, or any laws that say,“it’s not that bad,” is not the best way to deal with the problem. (We haven’t won the "war on terror,"but we dont say, “let’s just live and let live with terrorists!”—we continue to fight and prevent them)
3. Prohibition of alcohol in the 1900s was a failure, but when it became legal to drink again, drinking increased. People who say that legalizing any drugs wouldnt increase the use are not telling you the truth. The best way to deal with this is to keep trying to keep as many OFF drugs by making them illegal and punishing, and /or treating those who get involved, along witrh drug treatment like NA and drug court probation with mandated treatment.
4. OK, lets’ talk about marijuana. In 17 years, I never saw a defendant who was prosecuted for possessing or selling some sort of drug ( or a crime for abuse) who didnt start on pot! Im NOT saying that everyone who uses pot will use (lets say) meth, but I am saying for sure it is a “gateway” drug. The THC high (or as a relaxation tool) becomes less desirable, so you want more, want to try something else, and those who have lots of pot to sell have access or possession of other drugs to sell you. I know that ! They dont call it the “drug culture” for nothing.
5. It is true that some people get relief from nausea or pain from smoking pot. Doctors in some states can prescribe it for medical reasons. But doctors also have Marinol (gets the same relief as with pot) in pill form to deal with or relieve complications from sickness. Califonia passed a law okaying “medical marijuana” shops, and recently, they found out there was such an abuse of the “medical marijuana” law, they shut them down. A recent article discussed the problem with medical marijuana use.Read it.
   justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
   avstop.com/news_feb_2010/marijuana_high_caused_us_airways_flight_1447_to_divert.htm
6. People who say, “Let’s legalize and tax it, that way we can balance the budget” Pah-leeeeze ! You increase the use of pot or other drugs because of legalization and you may get taxes but you get increased use and abuse and the need for more government drug abuse treatment facilities which cost more money…eg, the use of the tax money you’d get. Should we tax prostitution?? or try to enforce it and get prostitutes treatment.
7. People who say, " If someone wants to use something behind closed doors in their home, they ought to be able to." The problem is—they dont stay behind closed doors !
   They drive, work, interact with family, violate the laws, become addicted (and yes people can become addicted to pot !!) and need public help OUTSIDE the home, in their community. Alcoholics say the same thing, but there are plenty of problems with boozers who go outside their home and that’s where the problem begins.
8. Drug abuse is a sin against the Fifth Commandment. Thou thalt not kill doesnt only mean “don’t take a life.”(in my understanding of the Commandment.) It also means that you shouldnt abuse your body.
9. Arresting and/or helping and treating prostitutes hasn’t eliminated prostitution. Should we legalize prostitution? Fighting to limit the number of abortions hasnt completely stopped abortions has it? BUT we haven’t said “Lets give up the fight” or “lets forget about doing the right thing!!” We do the right thing !!!
   DO NOT LEGALIZE DRUGS

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

It would be a huge mistake to legalize drugs. (same for decriminalizing). I was a prosecutor for 17 years in the state and federal system. I followed the “drug problem” politically, factually, and saw the problem from a personal relationship with police, informants, judges, juries and co-workers. I have vacillated from one opinion to the other, but I have studied the problem and am convinced that all of a sudden to tell kids “We were wrong” would be the worst thing to do… Here are some things to think about:

1. Here in my state, 80% of people in jail now are for a crime related to drug and/or alcohol abuse. Im not only talking about drug possession, but the crimes committed to get money or property to buy (or pawn for) drugs----- like theft, burglary, robbery, violence against persons. Ask people in prison how they got there. Drug abuse is the common answer.
2. To say the effors to stop drug use, sale, abuse or crimes that are related to drug abuse or possession has been a failure is not true. As a person who has gone into schools and talked to kids about it, I can tell you that there are plenty of kids who have not taken drugs due to the societal efforts to make it NOT cool to take them, whether it be “just say no,” Red Ribbon Days to Avoid Drugs or any other efforts throughout the decades to keep a kid from doing them. To now change the conventional wisdom to accept the legal opening of and advertising on TV for “Joe’s Pot Shop…Where You Can Get the Best Rocky Mountain High”…(for example), would be society telling kids, “wellll…never mind.” It would be to encourage drug use. You think legalizng prostitution wouldnt encourage the sin of prostitution?? You really want to see pot advertised and encouraged by a new societal blunder?? Kids are NOT stupid. Maybe the “war on drugs” has not kept everyone off drugs, BUT IT HAS MILLIONS, and we as a society OWE that to our kids.But changing the laws to make them legal, or any laws that say,“it’s not that bad,” is not the best way to deal with the problem. (We haven’t won the "war on terror,"but we dont say, “let’s just live and let live with terrorists!”—we continue to fight and prevent them)
3. Prohibition of alcohol in the 1900s was a failure, but when it became legal to drink again, drinking increased. People who say that legalizing any drugs wouldnt increase the use are not telling you the truth. The best way to deal with this is to keep trying to keep as many OFF drugs by making them illegal and punishing, and /or treating those who get involved, along witrh drug treatment like NA and drug court probation with mandated treatment.
4. OK, lets’ talk about marijuana. In 17 years, I never saw a defendant who was prosecuted for possessing or selling some sort of drug ( or a crime for abuse) who didnt start on pot! Im NOT saying that everyone who uses pot will use (lets say) meth, but I am saying for sure it is a “gateway” drug. The THC high (or as a relaxation tool) becomes less desirable, so you want more, want to try something else, and those who have lots of pot to sell have access or possession of other drugs to sell you. I know that ! They dont call it the “drug culture” for nothing.
5. It is true that some people get relief from nausea or pain from smoking pot. Doctors in some states can prescribe it for medical reasons. But doctors also have Marinol (gets the same relief as with pot) in pill form to deal with or relieve complications from sickness. Califonia passed a law okaying “medical marijuana” shops, and recently, they found out there was such an abuse of the “medical marijuana” law, they shut them down. A recent article discussed the problem with medical marijuana use.Read it.
   justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuana.html
   avstop.com/news_feb_2010/marijuana_high_caused_us_airways_flight_1447_to_divert.htm
6. People who say, “Let’s legalize and tax it, that way we can balance the budget” Pah-leeeeze ! You increase the use of pot or other drugs because of legalization and you may get taxes but you get increased use and abuse and the need for more government drug abuse treatment facilities which cost more money…eg, the use of the tax money you’d get. Should we tax prostitution?? or try to enforce it and get prostitutes treatment.
7. People who say, " If someone wants to use something behind closed doors in their home, they ought to be able to." The problem is—they dont stay behind closed doors !
   They drive, work, interact with family, violate the laws, become addicted (and yes people can become addicted to pot !!) and need public help OUTSIDE the home, in their community. Alcoholics say the same thing, but there are plenty of problems with boozers who go outside their home and that’s where the problem begins.
8. Drug abuse is a sin against the Fifth Commandment. Thou thalt not kill doesnt only mean “don’t take a life.”(in my understanding of the Commandment.) It also means that you shouldnt abuse your body.
9. Arresting and/or helping and treating prostitutes hasn’t eliminated prostitution. Should we legalize prostitution? Fighting to limit the number of abortions hasnt completely stopped abortions has it? BUT we haven’t said “Lets give up the fight” or “lets forget about doing the right thing!!” We do the right thing !!!
   DO NOT LEGALIZE DRUGS

Mind if I steal your post here? Not gonna put it up on any other sites, but might forward it to my family.

Thanks,

FSC

 

[DanteAlighieri]

You’re not interested in discussing whether or not drug use is a sin – in other words, morality can’t be used as a basis for this argument? As a Catholic, I find that completely unreasonable.

Many of the “harder” drugs are so addictive that a user can become hooked the first time he or she uses them – if the user survives. One can use alcohol in moderation; most people cannot use heroin or cocaine in moderation without seriously risking addiction.

Consider: it is illegal to use hairspray to get high, but hairspray does have the inherent benefit of styling your hair. Thus, hairspray is legal to purchase and possess. On the other hand, it is illegal to use cocaine to get high, and there is no other reasonable need for it to be in your possession other than getting high. Thus, the government is perfectly right to ban it, as the use of such a substance presents immediate risks to the user and/or those around him, and thus is a menace to society.

This is not about legislating temperance – it’s about banning substances that, other than a few limited circumstances, have no inherent benefit and intolerable risks.

PS: I know that some reading this (or someone that they know) can use cocaine or heroin or what-have-you without getting addicted. Exceptions to the rule, however, are purely that: exceptions.

Peace,
Dante

 

[portarica]

Reply to D97c

You don’t mention that the problem with the crime is about getting the money for the drugs, not the drugs themselves.

Take the profit away from the mexican mobs, the columbian cartels, the corrupt authorities, the enforcers and the like and the crime and the cost to society goes down.

As for pot being a gateway drug, that is the point of decriminalizing it and regulating the sale.

The gateway is not the pot, it is the seller of drugs that is the problem. If pot smokers get their pot from the regulated source they won’t be getting it from the guy who sells cocaine or heroin.
Legalizing and regulating pot would actually shut down the gateways to other drugs.

As for increasing drug use because of legalization, the countries that regulate drug use instead of criminalizing it experience more benefits than detriments.

As for the whole notion about glorifying drug use, if we apply the same advertising rationale as we do with cigarettes then that should take care of it (if we enforce it).

The cost of imprisoning drug offenders is crazy as well. its cheaper to treat them instead of imprisoning them. But that would put a lot of the crime industry ( unions, lawyers,private prison companies etc etc. )out of business.

And it would tick off Budweiser, I mean InBev.

Peace

 

[d97c]

The drug IS the problem. Without the drug, there is no abuse. The answer is to keep as many from using it as possible. The answer is not to make it more available than is is today by making it OK to walk down the street and buy it !!

I really do try to study this issue and have found that the following 2 articles are really good. One of the problems, (as mentioned by Dante, above). You can find people who say “Ive smoked pot or Ive used this or that for years, and I use it for…whatever.” I dont deny that. The answers lie in doing the best things for the greatest number of people.I bet you can find prostitutes who would say that they can handle the job, so it should be legalized.
Here is a really good article from the National Institute of Drug Abuse, a respected organization that has links to articles
drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/marijuana.html

Exposing the Myth of Medical Marijuana
justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuanap.html

and from the Glaucoma Research Foundation
glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.php
…from the National Center on Addiction—>
casacolumbia.org/absolutenm/templates/OpEds.aspx?articleid=223&zoneid=29
casacolumbia.org/absolutenm/templates/OpEds.aspx?articleid=220&zoneid=29
There are studies and there are studies. You can get any study you want. But I submit the following:
Some proponants of legalization talk about how it would save government money. I believe that regulatory and enforcement costs would increase substantially. If crime would increase with freer drug availability, law enforcement and crim justice system costs would increase. I dont think there is one city in the US that would welcome a reduction in their police force. Projected money saved or a wash of new tax money is a specious argument and hypothetical. How can you place a dollar value on the wasted lives legalization would bring. Increased drug use if legalized would add to business loss due to drug-abusing employees…loss productivity, absenteeism, and related health expenses. legalization would undoubtedly increase those costs. Surprise—> drugs dull the ability to think and react quickly. Do you really want the mechanic you trust to fix your brakes to have the same legal access to drugs that will remain in his system long afterwards??
Here’s a Catholic answer-----The real answer to the drug problem is not legalization. Character reconstruction, not the dismantling of drug laws, is the answer. Reduce the demand by increasing the efforts from church, state and community leaders who LEAD and TALK about things we shouldnt do !! When have you heard about a priest giving a homily about this?? They talk about abortion. How about talking about something else that can distroy lives. Amen !!!

 

[portarica]

The drug IS the problem. Without the drug, there is no abuse. The answer is to keep as many from using it as possible. The answer is not to make it more available than is is today by making it OK to walk down the street and buy it !!

I really do try to study this issue and have found that the following 2 articles are really good. One of the problems, (as mentioned by Dante, above). You can find people who say “Ive smoked pot or Ive used this or that for years, and I use it for…whatever.” I dont deny that. The answers lie in doing the best things for the greatest number of people.I bet you can find prostitutes who would say that they can handle the job, so it should be legalized.
Here is a really good article from the National Institute of Drug Abuse, a respected organization that has links to articles
drugabuse.gov/DrugPages/marijuana.html

Exposing the Myth of Medical Marijuana
justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marijuanap.html

and from the Glaucoma Research Foundation
glaucoma.org/treating/medical_marijua.php
…from the National Center on Addiction—>
casacolumbia.org/absolutenm/templates/OpEds.aspx?articleid=223&zoneid=29
casacolumbia.org/absolutenm/templates/OpEds.aspx?articleid=220&zoneid=29
There are studies and there are studies. You can get any study you want. But I submit the following:
Some proponants of legalization talk about how it would save government money. I believe that regulatory and enforcement costs would increase substantially. If crime would increase with freer drug availability, law enforcement and crim justice system costs would increase. I dont think there is one city in the US that would welcome a reduction in their police force. Projected money saved or a wash of new tax money is a specious argument and hypothetical. How can you place a dollar value on the wasted lives legalization would bring. Increased drug use if legalized would add to business loss due to drug-abusing employees…loss productivity, absenteeism, and related health expenses. legalization would undoubtedly increase those costs. Surprise—> drugs dull the ability to think and react quickly. Do you really want the mechanic you trust to fix your brakes to have the same legal access to drugs that will remain in his system long afterwards??
Here’s a Catholic answer-----The real answer to the drug problem is not legalization. Character reconstruction, not the dismantling of drug laws, is the answer. Reduce the demand by increasing the efforts from church, state and community leaders who LEAD and TALK about things we shouldnt do !! When have you heard about a priest giving a homily about this?? They talk about abortion. How about talking about something else that can distroy lives. Amen !!!

Most studies in countries that decriminalize drugs do not see a lasting increase in drug usage. They do experience the reduction in the other costs to society.

And since you are have been in the law enforcement business, you know prison is the training ground for criminals. If you want to educate people you can’t do it there. In fact it undoes any good of educating them elsewhere.

The war on drugs is a failure, not only because people resist the pressures, but because the war is corrupted. It doesn’t work and it costs too much. It makes criminals out of law enforcement personnel. They make deals with the devil that society pays for. But that’s OK because we can say we are doing the right thing.

Peace

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Most studies in countries that decriminalize drugs do not see a lasting increase in drug usage. They do experience the reduction in the other costs to society.

And since you are have been in the law enforcement business, you know prison is the training ground for criminals. If you want to educate people you can’t do it there. In fact it undoes any good of educating them elsewhere.
**
The war on drugs is a failure, not only because people resist the pressures, but because the war is corrupted. It doesn’t work and it costs too much. It makes criminals out of law enforcement personnel. They make deals with the devil that society pays for. But that’s OK because we can say we are doing the right thing**.

Peace

The fact that a fight is expensive does not mean it is not worth fighting. If you want to make the argument that this particular fight has failed, then please back that up with some verifiable facts. It is poor logic and irresponsible argumentation to make claims like what I bolded above without support.

If the dangers of illegal drugs outweigh the benefits, then the government is right to ban them, regardless of the cost. Do you really think that “corruption” will melt away when something is legalized and regulated by the government?

Peace,
Dante

 

[portarica]

The fact that a fight is expensive does not mean it is not worth fighting. If you want to make the argument that this particular fight has failed, then please back that up with some verifiable facts. It is poor logic and irresponsible argumentation to make claims like what I bolded above without support.

If the dangers of illegal drugs outweigh the benefits, then the government is right to ban them, regardless of the cost. Do you really think that “corruption” will melt away when something is legalized and regulated by the government?

Peace,
Dante

It is not worth paying for because it is not working. We have the highest incarceration rates in the developed world and the usage rates for drugs in general haven’t taken a hit. ( they do move around between types ,depending on changes in behavior).

If drugs were legal usage wouldn’t change significantly until prevention measures kicked in, then they would decline. The government hasn’t proven that the benefits of making drugs illegal has minimized their usage and if we measured drug use in volume of drugs we would see that more drugs are used in this country than ever before. (rates remaining level while population increases).

If you want the numbers just go to the references that 97 used, on the governments own sites the info is damaging the drug wars cause because it shows that all the billions spent hasn’t done anything.

We have millions in the post grad training program for criminals and they are all attending on scholarships paid by you and I!

Peace

 

[Jermosh]

The War on Drugs has been an utter failure from the start, in the end it only makes money for criminals and those who fight the criminals and hurts the user inbetween.

 

[d97c]

Yes by all means, lets legalize all drugs. Thats a real Catholic issue to be advocated on “Catholic Answers !!” You people who have advocated legalization …really you need to read a little.
I think the burden of proof regarding the benefits of drug legalization must be placed on the advocates… Come forward with specific plans and proposals…because you gotta answer these:
Are you talking about ALL drugs??
All narcotic or psychotropic drugs?
Who would administer the dosages–the state or individual. Who does the manufacturing?
What quantity of drugs would each individual be allowed to get. What strength? 100% pure herion? 60%…what about the person who wants 90% in the market place?
What about addicts? Would we not have to give them more in order to satisfy their craving? How does the addict get as much as he wants? especially if he doesnt have the money??
As long as there are drug users who cant afford drugs legally, there will be a black market, unless they are universally available…and in maximum quality. You really want to give meth or coke users AS MUCH AS THEY WANT AND AT WHATEVER STRENGTH?? of course you dont.
What do we do with those who are experimenting, but cant get it on a regular basis?? Do we sell it to them as a society to encourage them to pick up the habit?
Will the govt establish tax supported facilities to sell these drugs?
Would there be an age limit on purchases, just like the hilariously-successful efforts to keep 18-21 year olds to not drink alcohol??
We are capitalistic…would we be able to export our illegal drugs for sale…like wine and liquor??
Would it make any sense to tell kids “don’t use drugs” when they see the signs on the street of our new drug-legal society saying “Get the Best High at Joe’s Pot Shop.” As a society, you tell kids its legal…you tell kids Its ok to use it !!!1 OH YES YOU DO !!!
How would inner-city kids get the money to buy those new drugs that can be sold?
Are we going to be pals now with the countries who produce coca and opium…cause no opium and coca leaves are grown inside the US?? How do we ge tthat coke or heroin made into crack or powder form?
Overcrowded jails and prisons and loaded court dockets indicate success, rather than failure or law enforcement in the battle against illicit drugs !
You think crime is bad now…just increase the availability…legal availability…and you get more crimes because of impaired judgment and instability from use. A society where drugs are easier to get is a bad thing.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

We have the highest incarceration rates in the developed world and the usage rates for drugs in general haven’t taken a hit.

High incarceration rates are not a bad thing. It means we’re catching the criminals. Usage has climbed in Portugal after decriminalisation.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

It is not worth paying for because it is not working. We have the highest incarceration rates in the developed world and the usage rates for drugs in general haven’t taken a hit. ( they do move around between types ,depending on changes in behavior).

You can’t look at total incarceration statistics as in indication of whether drug use has changed – that’s absurd.

Of course our incarceration rates for drug offenses may be higher – but I would suspect that it’s because we have tougher laws against drug trafficking than most countries.

If drugs were legal usage wouldn’t change significantly until prevention measures kicked in, then they would decline. The government hasn’t proven that the benefits of making drugs illegal has minimized their usage and if we measured drug use in volume of drugs we would see that more drugs are used in this country than ever before. (rates remaining level while population increases).

How on earth do you know that??? Are you really sure you want to risk that, knowing that so many of these drugs are superaddictive as well as deadly?

If you want to legalize something that has been illegal, it is up to YOU to prove that it should be; the government doesn’t need to justify it since you’re the one making the assertion.

If you want the numbers just go to the references that 97 used, on the governments own sites the info is damaging the drug wars cause because it shows that all the billions spent hasn’t done anything.

No - that’s not how it works. Intellectual honesty, debate protocol, common courtesy, and (I believe) the rules of this forum require that if you are going to make such an assertion, it is necessary to provide support for it.

We have millions in the post grad training program for criminals and they are all attending on scholarships paid by you and I!

I agree - this is a problem. They should be in prison to pay their debt to society. Let them go to school on their own dime and their own time – when they’re in prison, they’re in prison.

Now, if you’re holding this up as an example of why we should stop fighting the war on drugs, then that’s a pretty absurd reason.

Peace,
Dante

 

[stringbeanduck]

When people talk about legalizing drugs the usually mean marijuana. I’ve never came across a soul who thought it would be a good idea to legalize meth, herion, LSD, and all that other bad stuff. If you ask me though, the way marijuana acks as a gateway drug is by keeping it illegal.

 

[Jermosh]

Yes by all means, lets legalize all drugs. Thats a real Catholic issue to be advocated on “Catholic Answers !!” You people who have advocated legalization …really you need to read a little.
I think the burden of proof regarding the benefits of drug legalization must be placed on the advocates… Come forward with specific plans and proposals…because you gotta answer these:
Are you talking about ALL drugs??
All narcotic or psychotropic drugs?
Who would administer the dosages–the state or individual. Who does the manufacturing?
What quantity of drugs would each individual be allowed to get. What strength? 100% pure herion? 60%…what about the person who wants 90% in the market place?
What about addicts? Would we not have to give them more in order to satisfy their craving? How does the addict get as much as he wants? especially if he doesnt have the money??
As long as there are drug users who cant afford drugs legally, there will be a black market, unless they are universally available…and in maximum quality. You really want to give meth or coke users AS MUCH AS THEY WANT AND AT WHATEVER STRENGTH?? of course you dont.
What do we do with those who are experimenting, but cant get it on a regular basis?? Do we sell it to them as a society to encourage them to pick up the habit?
Will the govt establish tax supported facilities to sell these drugs?
Would there be an age limit on purchases, just like the hilariously-successful efforts to keep 18-21 year olds to not drink alcohol??
We are capitalistic…would we be able to export our illegal drugs for sale…like wine and liquor??
Would it make any sense to tell kids “don’t use drugs” when they see the signs on the street of our new drug-legal society saying “Get the Best High at Joe’s Pot Shop.” As a society, you tell kids its legal…you tell kids Its ok to use it !!!1 OH YES YOU DO !!!
How would inner-city kids get the money to buy those new drugs that can be sold?
Are we going to be pals now with the countries who produce coca and opium…cause no opium and coca leaves are grown inside the US?? How do we ge tthat coke or heroin made into crack or powder form?
Overcrowded jails and prisons and loaded court dockets indicate success, rather than failure or law enforcement in the battle against illicit drugs !
You think crime is bad now…just increase the availability…legal availability…and you get more crimes because of impaired judgment and instability from use. A society where drugs are easier to get is a bad thing.

Few issues with your post.

1st, why are we allowed to have alcohol? Its just as deadly and destructive then other drugs if not more. When was the last time you saw someone OD on pot?

2nd, there is a direct correlation with drug use and violence due to incarceration. All to common you have a non-violent user end up in jail and turn to violence out of survival.

3rd, there is plenty of studies showing the direct decrease in violence due to decriminalization.

4th, we would spend a lot less on anti-drug use and rehab then what we do on the “War on Drugs”. Gangs are richer and more powerful then ever because they can take something and get a 1000% return on it. As again this “War” is only lining the pockets of the enforcers and pushers, the user and non-user are the one who pay for it.

 

[Silence_Dogood_1]

d97c:

To now change the conventional wisdom to accept the legal opening of and advertising on TV for “Joe’s Pot Shop…Where You Can Get the Best Rocky Mountain High”…(for example), would be society telling kids, “wellll…never mind.” It would be to encourage drug use.

So then, I assume you’re equally opposed to beer advertisements?

Kids are NOT stupid.

Then why do you assume that they’d be unable to discern the harmful effects of drugs if they were made legal?

Prohibition of alcohol in the 1900s was a failure, but when it became legal to drink again, drinking increased.

Did drinking really increase?Or did it merely appear to increase because people no longer had to hide their drinking?

The best way to deal with this is to keep trying to keep as many OFF drugs by making them illegal and punishing

That doesn’t keep people off drugs. All that does is make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens.

1. OK, lets’ talk about marijuana. In 17 years, I never saw a defendant who was prosecuted for possessing or selling some sort of drug ( or a crime for abuse) who didnt start on pot!

And…?

1. People who say, “Let’s legalize and tax it, that way we can balance the budget” Pah-leeeeze ! You increase the use of pot or other drugs because of legalization and you may get taxes but you get increased use and abuse and the need for more government drug abuse treatment facilities which cost more money…eg, the use of the tax money you’d get.

Why is the government involved in drug treatment in the first place? Where is that in the Constitution?

Should we tax prostitution?

Yes.

1. People who say, " If someone wants to use something behind closed doors in their home, they ought to be able to." The problem is—they dont stay behind closed doors !
   They drive, work, interact with family, violate the laws, become addicted (and yes people can become addicted to pot !!) and need public help OUTSIDE the home, in their community.

Then why aren’t you also arguing for the prohibition of alcohol?

If a guy comes home from work and smokes a joint in the privacy of his own home, why should he be treated like a criminal?

If your argument is that he may do harmful things, such as operate a motor vehicle under the influence, we already have laws that deal with that. So why punish the person who isn’t doing anything harmful?

That’s the same silly logic that believes we can reduce gun violence by passing more laws to discourage gun ownership by law-abiding citizens.

1. Drug abuse is a sin against the Fifth Commandment. Thou thalt not kill doesnt only mean “don’t take a life.”(in my understanding of the Commandment.) It also means that you shouldnt abuse your body.

Even if that were true, this is not a theocracy, Counselor. Since when is it the role of the government to enforce the Ten Commandments? What’s next? Are you going to lobby to arrest people who eat pork bar-b-que?

1. Arresting and/or helping and treating prostitutes hasn’t eliminated prostitution. Should we legalize prostitution?

Yes.

Fighting to limit the number of abortions hasnt completely stopped abortions has it? BUT we haven’t said “Lets give up the fight” or “lets forget about doing the right thing!!” We do the right thing !!!

The difference is that every time an abortion is performed, a baby is killed.

DO NOT LEGALIZE DRUGS

Can you give us any compelling legal reason for the prohibition of recreational drugs?

 

[d97c]

See the links Ive cited in my past posts, do the research, and then give some serious comments that are less than flippant !

 

[Texas_Roofer]

… I don’t believe a draconian ban on these substances and the criminalization of users is a reasonable or effective solution to the terrible problem of drug abuse.

Well 70+ years of utter failure makes that a reasonable assumption. I believe decriminalization of practically all drugs is a win - win scenario. Now unlicensed mfg, and sale probably should remain criminal. Criminal levels should be based on maybe 120 total or 30 day supply outside the home. “Legalization” is a word of little meaning. I would not support open legalization of minors in possession of drugs.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

See the links Ive cited in my past posts, do the research, and then give some serious comments that are less than flippant !

…
3. Prohibition of alcohol in the 1900s was a failure, but when it became legal to drink again, drinking increased. People who say that legalizing any drugs wouldnt increase the use are not telling you the truth. The best way to deal with this is to keep trying to keep as many OFF drugs by making them illegal and punishing, and /or treating those who get involved, along witrh drug treatment like NA and drug court probation with mandated treatment…

It would seem flippant is to argue 3.5 generations of government control is working. Our papers are full of drug stories, and you claim our jails full of culprits. Government is not the answer. Though I thank you for your service.

 

[edwest2]

Sad, The Catholic Answer is don’t abuse the body God gave you. Second, why does anyone want pot much less cocaine which was ‘fashionable’ in trendy nightclubs in the '80s? The problem with some people is they let other people do their thinking for them. “Here. Try this. It won’t hurt you.” Yeah. After almost ten years working in a hospital and bringing people up from the ER, stop the nonsense.

People should know right from wrong. Every generation of kids is born without that knowledge. They need to be taught. Not, Yeah, sure, whatever. Not - legalize drugs cause I like 'em.

Worried about organized crime? Get kids to avoid using in the first place. Then they won’t put themselves, their friends and their families through hell - or die. And there’s no need for treatment if the illegal stuff is avoided in the first place.

It’s time to stop this, I can do whatever I want and some hospital will patch me up afterwards tape loop. Decide, right now, to never get on that road in the first place.

Peace,
Ed