Decriminalization and/or legalization of illicit drugs in the United States?

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No T Bob…that argument is quite old…The US Supremes have said that, primarily because of interstate nature of the drugs (as with most federal crimes,) it is Constitutional. Should we have a federal agency that regulates food and legal drugs…the FDA??..Who would regulate the food shipped interstate??..Isnt that regulating what we put inside our body??..I mean–cocaine is not processed in this country…You want each state to regulate interstate commerce??

If you could make all druggies get their drugs for free (so they wouldnt bankrupt their families by spending the money needed for family support) take their drugs inside their houses, never lose jobs, never become addicts thereby needing public assistance, never abuse their families, never drive under drugs, never use public facilities when they overdose, and never need medical attention…no man is an island, and it is what the person does AFTER HE PUTS IT INSIDE HIS BODY…the story doesnt stop there. Sure there are plenty of people who dont do that, but enought that is has been illegal for a loooooong time. Its illegal and punishable because of stories like this:
articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/drivin-that-train-high-on-cocaine-well-drivin-that-truck-really-695214.html
 
Yes, D97c my argument is old, but not in the sense you may imply. This argument came about immediately after congress started to abuse this provision in The Constitution.

The Constitution explicitly states in the 10th amendment that **I]“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”. **

Do you know the wording of the so-called “Interstate Commerce Clause” found in Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 3? It states,
“To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;”
This was one power explicitly granted to Congress, and from that line you say the drug wars are legal?? This line alone is interpreted that an individual can not grow cannabis in a garden and smoke it responsibly. How absurd!

A quote from James Madison on the subject, “Yet it is very certain that it grew out of the abuse of the power by the importing States in taxing the nonimporting, and was intended as a negative and preventive provision against injustice among the States themselves, rather than as a power to be used for the positive purposes of the General Government, in which alone, however, the remedial power could be lodged.” - Letter to Cabell, February 13, 1829.

The one sole reason for the Constitution was to limit the powers of the Federal Government. Congress’s power is limited to only those powers enumerated in the Constitution, so why, why would the founders of the country put an enumerated act declaring anything that could possibly deal with more then one state be the federal governments realm??
 
d97c said:
Wellllllllllllll…first…this site is called CATHOLIC ANSWERS !! so talking to Catholics is hardly…ummmm…“biased.” Why would an athiest be on this site?
Maybe there is a site called www.“Athiest Druggies”.com
Ora pro nobis !!
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Umm because this site wasn’t built for only Catholics. All denominations and religions are welcome. So with that said it’s pretty sad to read your responce because all human life is sacred. 😦
 
d97c said:
For Catholic parents who want to keep their kids off drugs…There is help…and you can educate yourself alot on it…Be positive…fight drug legalization…

cia.gov/kids-page/parents-teachers/helping-them-say-no-to-drugs/index.html
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What about protestant parents, athiest parents, and parents from other backrounds? Seems very rude of you to post a source to help keep kids off drugs for only Catholic parents. And as I already posted this forum was not created for only Catholics.
 
OK…you win…
This is to all the many many hundreds of athiests who are reading Catholic Answers…

there are some good things to help your kids to not use drugs or at least get the information to help them avoid use.
  1. Talk about the dangers in terms of people who have ruined their lives or died from them (links posted previously)
  2. Give them the real facts and answer their questions about what they hear from High Times or their stroner pals…or stoner Catholic Answers posters…
  3. You cant be with them 24/7, but you can open your eyes and be tough when it comes to drug use and toleration…
justice.gov/dea/marijuana_position.html

Learn about steroids…kids see their sports heros use them…

justice.gov/dea/concern/steroids.html

Learn to speak out AGAINST legalization !!!
justice.gov/dea/demand/sp…_out-may03.pdf

and then PRAY that this nation will fight and win against drug legalization…
…and … then read this

scribd.com/doc/12353500/Atheism-is-Stupid
 
PPeterson said:
make sure to save your kids from drugs by supporting laws that will destroy their lives and any chance at a normal future if they get caught, rather than treatment to help put it behind them with no criminal record.
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Well said, would like to add a tremendous burden to the taxpayer for these unjust convictions.
 
Do your research…the best way to treat someone who is using is to make rehab a part of probation…or available IN PRISON…as part of good time provisions while IN the prison…then AA or Narcotic Anoymous afterwards, . mandatory NA…

Its called stop violating the laws and stop using illegal drugs…and you have no option.

…most people dont go to rehab or treatment on their own. It takes a carrot and a big…ole…stick…called getting caught because you have failed to follow the laws.
What ruins lives in THE DRUG you want to make available to kids…Shame on you.
 
d97c said:
Do your research…the best way to treat someone who is using is to make rehab a part of probation…or available IN PRISON…as part of good time provisions while IN the prison…then AA or Narcotic Anoymous afterwards, . mandatory NA…

Its called stop violating the laws and stop using illegal drugs…and you have no option.

…most people dont go to rehab or treatment on their own. It takes a carrot and a big…ole…stick…called getting caught because you have failed to follow the laws.
What ruins lives in THE DRUG you want to make available to kids…Shame on you.
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lol, thanks for shaming me bro.
i’m decently well versed in the research. could you tell me what the outcome measures are demonstrating that tying this to the legal system is “the best” way to treat someone. what is being measured? completing treatment? abstinence at 6 months? two year follow up? # of clean urines over x amount of time? if you show me a solid longitudinal study across users and non users that examines quality of life factors such as ability to maintain employment, income level, divorce rate, attainment of further education over 5 -10 years out and somehow manages to control for the selection bias by taking into account people who tried drugs, then stopped without going to treatment or getting arrested (like two of our last 3 presidents), then I may be a bit more swayed by the rigor of your research.
 
You dont fool me with that mumbo-jumbo…Im not going to do your work for you. YOU show me a study that show the results you raise. My facts are current and reflect the methods used today…See the links below.
YOU show me a study that would reflect that your methods…as yet undefined…would be better. You cant because all you come up with is …“legalize drugs.” That’s your answer. Make them more available. Thats not the way to cut the use of them. But while you are at it…you might start with the following…And parents of kids reading this can see good outlets for rehab facilities and how they treat drug abuse…
cliffsidemalibu.com/drug-rehab/drug-rehabilitation/

and
health.howstuffworks.com/rehab4.htm
…here’s a quote—>

“It’s also been widely held that rehab works best if the patient is willing and ready to discontinue his substance abuse. But recent studies of inmates at correctional facilities who are forced into prison treatment programs have shown that rehab in jail can lead to not only abstinence after release, but also lowers rates of criminal recidivism – repeating an offense after having been punished for it before. As a result, confidence in involuntary treatment programs has increased. In some U.S. states, “drug courts” have been organized; judges can choose to sentence offenders to treatment programs rather than prison. In 2004, the court system referred 36 percent of Americans who received treatment”
The truth shall make you free!
 
d97c said:
Do your research…the best way to treat someone who is using is to make rehab a part of probation…or available IN PRISON…as part of good time provisions while IN the prison…then AA or Narcotic Anoymous afterwards, . mandatory NA…
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Mandatory participation in AA or NA is self-defeating and contrary to their purpose. Perhaps you mean mandatory drug rehabilitation.
 
d97c said:
Do your research…the best way to treat someone who is using is to make rehab a part of probation…or available IN PRISON…as part of good time provisions while IN the prison…then AA or Narcotic Anoymous afterwards, . mandatory NA…

Its called stop violating the laws and stop using illegal drugs…and you have no option.

…most people dont go to rehab or treatment on their own. It takes a carrot and a big…ole…stick…called getting caught because you have failed to follow the laws.
What ruins lives in THE DRUG you want to make available to kids…Shame on you.
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:whistle:
drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
Tobacco
435,000 1
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity
365,000 1
Alcohol
85,000 1
Microbial Agents
75,000 1
Toxic Agents
55,000 1
Motor Vehicle Crashes
26,347 1
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs
32,000 2
Suicide
30,622 3
Incidents Involving Firearms
29,000 1
Homicide
20,308 4
Sexual Behaviors
20,000 1
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect
17,0001, 5
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin
7,6006
Marijuana
0 7
Boy thats a lot of stuff that needs to be illegal.
 
I think the burden of proof regarding the benefits of drug legalization must be placed on the advocates… Come forward with specific plans and proposals…because you gotta answer these:
Are you talking about ALL drugs??
All narcotic or psychotropic drugs?
Who would administer the dosages–the state or individual. Who does the manufacturing?
What quantity of drugs would each individual be allowed to get. What strength? 100% pure herion? 60%…what about the person who wants 90% in the market place?
What about addicts? Would we not have to give them more in order to satisfy their craving? How does the addict get as much as he wants? especially if he doesnt have the money??
As long as there are drug users who cant afford drugs legally, there will be a black market, unless they are universally available…and in maximum quality. You really want to give meth or coke users AS MUCH AS THEY WANT AND AT WHATEVER STRENGTH?? of course you dont.
What do we do with those who are experimenting, but cant get it on a regular basis?? Do we sell it to them as a society to encourage them to pick up the habit?
Will the govt establish tax supported facilities to sell these drugs?
Would there be an age limit on purchases, just like the hilariously-successful efforts to keep 18-21 year olds to not drink alcohol??
We are capitalistic…would we be able to export our illegal drugs for sale…like wine and liquor??
Would it make any sense to tell kids “don’t use drugs” when they see the signs on the street of our new drug-legal society saying “Get the Best High at Joe’s Pot Shop.” As a society, you tell kids its legal…you tell kids Its ok to use it !!!1 OH YES YOU DO !!!
How would inner-city kids get the money to buy those new drugs that can be sold?
Are we going to be pals now with the countries who produce coca and opium…cause no opium and coca leaves are grown inside the US?? How do we ge tthat coke or heroin made into crack or powder form?
Overcrowded jails and prisons and loaded court dockets indicate success, rather than failure or law enforcement in the battle against illicit drugs !
You think crime is bad now…just increase the availability…legal availability…and you get more crimes because of impaired judgment and instability from use. A society where drugs are easier to get is a bad thing.
 
You first, where is your plan to illegalize tobacco, alcohol, cheese, cleaning products, cars, guns, knives, bats, prescription drugs(pretty ironic I know)…

I mean you are basing it off addiction or harm to society, so why not hit the big hitters.

Or you could admit that the “War on Drugs” is a utter failure to gigantic proportions. Not only did it make the Criminals richer, it also put multiple dictators into power and created unrest in the Middle East and South America, unrest that is costing us Billions of dollars if not totalling a Trillion if Iran does not settle down. We can stop this by doing nothing more then decriminalizing it. In the end, people will do stupid things, its human nature.
 
d97c said:
You dont fool me with that mumbo-jumbo…Im not going to do your work for you. YOU show me a study that show the results you raise. My facts are current and reflect the methods used today…See the links below.
YOU show me a study that would reflect that your methods…

“It’s also been widely held that rehab works best if the patient is willing and ready to discontinue his substance abuse. But recent studies of inmates at correctional facilities who are forced into prison treatment programs have shown that rehab in jail can lead to not only abstinence after release, but also lowers rates of criminal recidivism – repeating an offense after having been punished for it before. As a result, confidence in involuntary treatment programs has increased. In some U.S. states, “drug courts” have been organized; judges can choose to sentence offenders to treatment programs rather than prison. In 2004, the court system referred 36 percent of Americans who received treatment”
The truth shall make you free!
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what seemed like “mumbo jumbo” to you were extremely basic questions asking you to support your claim. You are the one who made the claim that combining the legal system with treatment is the “best” way to address the drug problem. It’s reasonable for me to expect you to support your claim. I asked you clarify the exact facts that prove this is the best. your response was to get your feelings hurt, tell me I’m talking mumbo jumbo, and post two links.
Neither link was to a study. The first was to a website for a rehab program. the second one was a general internet article that described how rehab worked and made no reference whatsoever to your claims that the legal system plus treatment is the best option. It did mention a study showing that mandatory treatment can be effective, but made no comparison to voluntary treatment.

You don’t really seem to understand this issue. When we argue for legalization/decriminalization, it’s not the same as saying that 10 year olds should be able to buy it in the toy section and people should be able to drive coked out of their minds. It means that currently illicit drugs would be regulated in much the same way as alcohol. there would still be involvement with the legal system for offenses such as underage use, DUI, distributing without a license, etc. So “drug courts” would still have a role. However, there would be no locking people up just for possessing crack.

I disagree with your repeated statement that the “burden of proof” should be on those calling for decriminalization. Historically, “criminalization” occurred many years after these many of these drugs were distributed legally. In my opinion, it would be more rational to say that criminalizing drugs has been a recent experiment which has largely failed. It should be up to you to coherently defend why we should continue supporting such an exorbitant use of public resources instead of moving back towards the previous status quo.

Finally, I understand that you were previously a prosecutor, and most likely developed a style of argumentation suitable for this environment. However, in responding to me there is no jury to be swayed, so there’s no need to throw out statements like “shame on you” or “mumbo jumbo.” you can if you want though because it’s unintentionally funny.
 
d97c said:
You dont fool me with that mumbo-jumbo…Im not going to do your work for you. YOU show me a study that show the results you raise. My facts are current and reflect the methods used today…See the links below. …
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The hypocrisy of the “drug war” is amazing neither reference is a prison based system. To say let’s keep it criminal and separate drug users by incarceration from treatment which is outside incarceration is to show a need of drug users. That is more proof law enforcement wants more drug users (not less) thus more budget, more jobs, more control, etc., etc.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
The hypocrisy of the “drug war” is amazing neither reference is a prison based system. To say let’s keep it criminal and separate drug users by incarceration from treatment which is outside incarceration is to show a need of drug users. That is more proof law enforcement wants more drug users (not less) thus more budget, more jobs, more control, etc., etc.
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Its like a modern slave trade almost, its quite frightning actually.
 
Does no one care about the constitutionality of this?? Please refer to the bottom of page 7.

While we continue to ignore the intent of The Constitution this country continues to go downhill.
 
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