Defacto/Marriage?

[Magicsilence]

DoubleEdged:

Anne G, THE CHURCH DOES NOT INSTITUTE MARRIAGE.

THE WORD MARRIAGE ITSELF MEANS ‘JOINED TOGETHER’.

THE WAY YOU JOIN WITH YOUR WOMAN IS THROUGH ‘SEX’
ONCE YOU HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN YOU ARE JOINED TOGETHER, OR ‘MARRIED’ TO THE WOMAN. THAT IS IN THE BIBLE.

THAT IS WHY THE COMMANDMENT WAS GIVEN BY THE MOST HIGH THAT A MAN SHOULD JOIN TO HIS WOMAN THROUGH THE FLESH, THEN LEAVE THEIR PARENTS HOME.

THE MOST HIGH JOINS A MAN AND WOMAN TOGETHER, NOT MAN, NOT A PRIEST, NOT A CHURCH.

WHEN YOU SIGN FOR A MARRIAGE LICENSE, YOU ARE MAKING THE GOVERMENT YOUR HEAD, OR YOUR GOD. YOU ARE ASKING THEM FOR PERMISSION TO BE JOINED TO YOUR WIFE.

THIS IS A RIGHT GIVEN TO MAN BY THE MOST HIGH. ONCE YOU SIGN THE LICENSE YOU ARE NO MARRIED TO YOUR SPOUSE, AND ALSO MARRIED TO THE GOVERMENT. THEY ARE NOW A THIRD PARTY TO YOUR RELATIONSHIP.

THE MARRIAGE LICENSE IS A FORM OF ENSLAVEMENT, YOU’RE NOW BOUND UNDER THE LAW OF MAN.

JUST LIKE A DRIVERS LICENSE THEY CAN NOW SUBJECT YOU TO LAWS, AND REGULATIONS, AND CAN REVOKE WHAT YOU HAVE NOW MADE A ‘PRIVLEDGE’ INSTEAD OF A GOD GIVEN RIGHT.

OF COURSE THE CHURCH ENDORSES THIS…WHY?

BECAUSE THE CHURCH ALSO IS CREATURE OF THE STATE.

THEY HAVE A CHARTER WITH THE GOVERNMENT CALLED A ‘4013C’ CHARTER, WHICH EXCLUDES THEM FROM TAXES AND GIVES THEM CERTAIN PRIVELEDGES.

ONCE OF THE CONDITIONS IS THAT THE CHURCH MUST TEACH ACCORDING TO THE ‘STATES’ AGENDA. WHY? BECAUSE NOW THE HEAD, OR THE GOD, OR CORNERSTONE OF THAT CHURCH IS NOT THE LORD.

IT IS THE STATE.

THAT IS WHY CHURCHES DON’T TEACH AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY, OR THE DESTRUCTION OF MODERN DAY BABYLON, OR ANYTHING ELSE WHICH ‘GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN’ OF ANY PHILOSOPHY OF THE GOVERNMENT OR THEIR AGENDA.

IN THE SLAVERY DAYS, THE SLAVE HAD TO ASK MASTA IF IT WAS OKAY TO WIFE A BELOVED ONE.

WELL GUESS WHAT! WE ARE ALL STILL IN SLAVERY BEHIND INVISIBLE BARS.

WAKE UP…YOUR CHURCH ARE NOTHING BY C.O’S FOR THIS INVISIBLE PRISON.

HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION GIRL…

…AND BY THE WAY, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE IF YOU DIVORCED YOUR HUSBAND AGAINST HIS WILL…YOU’VE COMMITTED ADULTERY…AND THERE IS A SEVERE ENDING TO THAT SITUATION FOR YOU.

Did you SEE the speed of this troll, wow.

I dont think ive ever seen one that fast.

Sigh.

Christ came to fulfill the law.

We know understand it moreso than we did in the OT.

We know that in the OT it was considered to be THE unifying factor for marriage.

After Christ we came to understand better the situation.

Marriage is not just about sex, but about the unification of two bodies.

Try reading the bible for more information. Christ preached a message of repentance and forgiveness of sins. Its a shame you dont see fit to concur.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[Anne_G]

Courtneyjo:

Anne, the Church and God do not automatically forgive past sins. Sin is forgiven by God in Confession. Yes, God will forgive people for their past sins. People come out of the confessional having to do penance. They are forgiven, washed clean, a clean slate. If the sins are “loosed on Earth”, they are “loosed in Heaven.” Jesus gave the Church this authority.

You and others are not unforgiveable. Jesus loves you so much that he will forgive you. You may feel that you want to do further reparation by never marrying in the Church, but the Church does not require this of you.

Whn I asked my priest, the Archbishop and Cardinal about this not one said I had to go to Confession or even repent for having done so, I was told as there was no marriage I was free to marry in the Church. I know I am forgiven, because I did repent, but I feel very strongly that should I chose to marry another person God will be very angry. I don’t wish to be on my own for the rest of my life but that is what God is guiding me on what I must do.

 

[mercygate]

Anne G:

Whn I asked my priest, the Archbishop and Cardinal about this not one said I had to go to Confession or even repent for having done so, I was told as there was no marriage I was free to marry in the Church. I know I am forgiven, because I did repent, but I feel very strongly that should I chose to marry another person God will be very angry. I don’t wish to be on my own for the rest of my life but that is what God is guiding me on what I must do.

Anne, Dear, if you came to the Church 7 years ago, especially if you were a cradle Catholic who received Confession, Communion and Confirmation, it would be assumed that you would know that returning to the Church means returning to the sacraments, particularly Confession. Living in that irregular relationship for all those years is, objectively taken (regardless of how you feel about it), a serious sin that needs to be repented, amended (already done!) and confessed so that you may receive the Eucharist without danger to your soul. The fact that you deem that relationship as equivalent to a sacramental marriage might be considered problematic with respect to your “repentance” – but I wouldn’t worry about it; just go to Confession.

Do I understand that you have had personal, face-to-face, meetings about this with your “Archbishop and Cardinal”? Would that be one person or two?

 

[bear06]

Anne G:

Yes.
I have a Australian publication, I’m not sure if available in US or not, but it was handed out to us at Church recently. It is called “The Father Speaks to His Children”. Our Father appeared to a Nun in Italy back in 1932 with a message for the Church, which the Church appear to accept as being divine intervention. God did this because he tried to get his message through others (whether this be within the Church or not it didn’t say) but they weren’t listening to him, so he used this Nun.
My point being that perhaps if the People within the Church can’t hear what he wants he uses people outside of the hierarchy.

And yet, if the hierarchy rejected this nun’s apparition as false, the faithful are bound to this ruling.

Here’s your biblical proof that your theories are incorrect. The laity does not have this promise bestowed on them - only Peter (the Pope) has this promise.

16:18. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.*

16:19. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.*

Besides that, even, at least mainstream, protestant churches believe the same thing. The theory that God has let the Catholic Church go astray for 2000 years is contra to the above verses.

Think about it. If what you were saying was true, all of the Sacraments would be null and void. You can apply your line of thinking to any of them. I believe I’m a Catholic; therefore I don’t need to be baptized. I believe that anyone can confect the Host; therefore I don’t need the Eucharist as seen through the Church. I believe I can confess my sins directly to God, therefore I don’t need Confession. I believe God has anointed me so I don’t need Holy Orders. I believe I’m going to Heaven so I don’t need Extrememe Unction. Now, I’m assuming you don’t believe these statements above but if that’s true, you’ve got to ask yourself why you believe you statement of “I believe I was married therefore I was”? The plain and simple fact is that no one is married unless they fulfill all of the requirements ordained by the Divinely instituted and guided Church.

 

[bear06]

BTW, the Catholic Church is fair in her teachings. Our actions are what are not always fair. The Catholic Church did nothing wrong in you above example.

 

[DoubleEdged]

FULFILL: 2 a : to put into effect : EXECUTE b : to meet the requirements of (a business order) c : to bring to an end d : to measure up to :

IF CHRIST CAME TO “FULFILL” THE LAW AS YOU QUOTED.

THEN WHERE DID THE LAW OF MARRIAGE CHANGE?

WHY DID JESUS ALWAYS QUOTE THE OLD TESTAMENT, AND THE OLD LAWS…IF THEY HAVE CHANGED.

PLEASE SHOW ME “IN THE BIBLE” WHERE JESUS CHANGED THE LAW OF MARRIAGE.

OR ANY OTHER LAW FOR THAT MATTER.

I’M AM SO EAGERLY WAITING.

 

[Anne_G]

mercygate:

Anne, Dear, if you came to the Church 7 years ago, especially if you were a cradle Catholic who received Confession, Communion and Confirmation, it would be assumed that you would know that returning to the Church means returning to the sacraments, particularly Confession. Living in that irregular relationship for all those years is, objectively taken (regardless of how you feel about it), a serious sin that needs to be repented, amended (already done!) and confessed so that you may receive the Eucharist without danger to your soul. The fact that you deem that relationship as equivalent to a sacramental marriage might be considered problematic with respect to your “repentance” – but I wouldn’t worry about it; just go to Confession.

Do I understand that you have had personal, face-to-face, meetings about this with your “Archbishop and Cardinal”? Would that be one person or two?

I don’t deem it the equivelent to a Sacramental marriage, after my conversion (due to circumstances not of my doing) I was not able to marry, all I could do was continue living as I had been and continually pray to God for help to improve the situation so that a marriage may become possible.

I only wrote to the Archbishop and the Cardinal, two seperate people.

 

[mercygate]

Anne G:

I don’t deem it the equivelent to a Sacramental marriage, after my conversion (due to circumstances not of my doing) I was not able to marry, all I could do was continue living as I had been and continually pray to God for help to improve the situation so that a marriage may become possible.

Ah! My misunderstanding. Thank you for the clarification.

But the point about confession still stands. God love ya!

I only wrote to the Archbishop and the Cardinal, two seperate people.

So, confession would not likely have come up.

 

[Sherlock]

Anne G:

So far, everyone has given me where I stand with the Catholic Church. I am interested in what the Bible says - God’s Word.
No-one has shown me where in the Bible it says God only accepts a marriage perform by a Catholic Priest, or approved by the Church.
I didn’t misrepresent my self as being married, we were quite open that we were not married, but committed to the relationship the same as a married couple.
Again I ask that you look at my quotes from scripture, and see whether God may in fact accept it as a marriage, in particular Tobit (from the Catholic Bible).
I turned to God 7 years ago, and am very strict on following him. Perhaps I did live in sin as you all say, but why do I feel God guiding me so heavily on this.
I didn’t point out in my original post, that I am not looking for the Church to accept it as a marriage at all, I understand that it is a Sacrament, but what I am looking for is for the Church to refuse to ever marry someone who lived in a defacto relationship based on the biblical evidence that God could indeed accept their relationship as a marriage.
If Adam and Eve were the first man and Woman, who married them. God joined them together, not a priest, or the Church.

The authority that the Catholic Church has to “bind and loose” comes from Jesus. Look in your Bible at Matthew 16:18-19—“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Also, look at Luke 10:16—“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Looking at these verses, you see Jesus conferring authority to the Church, and then stating the consequences of disobeying that authority–“he who rejects you rejects me”.

The Catholic Church has the authority to confer the sacraments, including marriage. That you disagree with the Church is convenient for you, but following God’s commands is not always convenient.

You say that you want to know what the Bible says about your particular situation: tell me where in the Bible it says that the Bible is going to tell you about all situations. What the Bible does say is that Jesus founded a Church to guide you in all situations.

You were fornicating for all of that time, and YOU’RE horrified at the Church??? What does the Bible say about fornication—do you not know? Hint—it’s a grave sin, and Paul says that fornicators (aming others) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Look—I’m glad you’re turning your life around. But you need to realize that your pride is still getting in the way. Give yourself entirely to God in obedience—you know already that relying solely on your own opinions has not been good for you. God bless.

 

[Anne_G]

bear06:

And yet, if the hierarchy rejected this nun’s apparition as false, the faithful are bound to this ruling.

Here’s your biblical proof that your theories are incorrect. The laity does not have this promise bestowed on them - only Peter (the Pope) has this promise.

16:18. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.*

16:19. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.*

Besides that, even, at least mainstream, protestant churches believe the same thing. The theory that God has let the Catholic Church go astray for 2000 years is contra to the above verses.

Think about it. If what you were saying was true, all of the Sacraments would be null and void. You can apply your line of thinking to any of them. I believe I’m a Catholic; therefore I don’t need to be baptized. I believe that anyone can confect the Host; therefore I don’t need the Eucharist as seen through the Church. I believe I can confess my sins directly to God, therefore I don’t need Confession. I believe God has anointed me so I don’t need Holy Orders. I believe I’m going to Heaven so I don’t need Extrememe Unction. Now, I’m assuming you don’t believe these statements above but if that’s true, you’ve got to ask yourself why you believe you statement of “I believe I was married therefore I was”? The plain and simple fact is that no one is married unless they fulfill all of the requirements ordained by the Divinely instituted and guided Church.

Scripture does not deal with anything about “living together”, except fornication. It also does not say that if you commit fornication whether you are or are not allowed to then marry once you stop sinning. The Catholic Catechism (please correct me if I’m wrong) doesn’t deal with this either. This ruling comes directly from the priest, etc. I am not saying I have authority to change the Church, only that the Holy Spirit is guiding me on this one area. Again I am not asking for mine or anyones union to be accepted as a Sacramental marriage. All I believe God wants is that anyone who did as I did, abide by the Church law that they had their attempt at marriage (although it failed to take place), they must abide by the same rule as a married person has to ie they are never to remarry.(or marry in their case)
I can’t see anything evil, unscriptural, unjust, unfair, against the Church, in this at all. The Church has had to change their stance in the past (1 example, that the earth was the centre of the universe), and have had to make new ones as society demands (1 example stem cell research). I am not attacking the Church, I just wish for them to review their stance on this. Defacto unions are much more prevalent nowdays and the Church need to send the message that it is not acceptable. I am not sure when the Church made this ruling but perhaps it only occured 1 in 100,000 then, but how many is it now?

 

[Sherlock]

Anne G:

Scripture does not deal with anything about “living together”, except fornication. It also does not say that if you commit fornication whether you are or are not allowed to then marry once you stop sinning. The Catholic Catechism (please correct me if I’m wrong) doesn’t deal with this either. This ruling comes directly from the priest, etc. I am not saying I have authority to change the Church, only that the Holy Spirit is guiding me on this one area. Again I am not asking for mine or anyones union to be accepted as a Sacramental marriage. All I believe God wants is that anyone who did as I did, abide by the Church law that they had their attempt at marriage (although it failed to take place), they must abide by the same rule as a married person has to ie they are never to remarry.(or marry in their case)
I can’t see anything evil, unscriptural, unjust, unfair, against the Church, in this at all. The Church has had to change their stance in the past (1 example, that the earth was the centre of the universe), and have had to make new ones as society demands (1 example stem cell research). I am not attacking the Church, I just wish for them to review their stance on this. Defacto unions are much more prevalent nowdays and the Church need to send the message that it is not acceptable. I am not sure when the Church made this ruling but perhaps it only occured 1 in 100,000 then, but how many is it now?

Wow— First, I don’t think you really understand the whole Galileo thing. I suggest you go here: catholic.com/library/galileo_controversy.asp
The Church never taught as doctrine that the earth is the center of the universe. Nor is it able to—it is a matter of science, not theology, and Copernicus, who advanced the theory before Galileo, was encouraged in his research by Church leaders.
Secondly, the Church’s decision regarding embryonic stem cell research has not changed nor will it (there is ethical stem cell research being conducted that is in accordance with Church teaching, by the way) It is true that the topic is new, but the underlying principles are NOT new at all.

 

[lgatny]

Anne G:

Yes I do take on board what the Pope and Church say. The Bible comes first with me though,
.

that’s interesting…especially since the church existed for several hundred years before the Bible! How did the first Catholic Christians know what to do??? i would recommend reading the book “Where We Got the Bible”, it’s a nice explanation of where this beautiful book came from and how it must be read and interpreted WITH sacred tradition in order to fully be understood.

 

[Anne_G]

Sherlock:

Wow— First, I don’t think you really understand the whole Galileo thing. I suggest you go here: catholic.com/library/galileo_controversy.asp
The Church never taught as doctrine that the earth is the center of the universe. Nor is it able to—it is a matter of science, not theology, and Copernicus, who advanced the theory before Galileo, was encouraged in his research by Church leaders.
Secondly, the Church’s decision regarding embryonic stem cell research has not changed nor will it (there is ethical stem cell research being conducted that is in accordance with Church teaching, by the way) It is true that the topic is new, but the underlying principles are NOT new at all.

Sorry about the “centre of the Universe thing”, someone told me recently that was what the Church taught, my mistake.

 

[Anne_G]

lgatny:

that’s interesting…especially since the church existed for several hundred years before the Bible! How did the first Catholic Christians know what to do??? i would recommend reading the book “Where We Got the Bible”, it’s a nice explanation of where this beautiful book came from and how it must be read and interpreted WITH sacred tradition in order to fully be understood.

I know where the Bible came from. It is the Word of God, and is why I follow it. I also pray to God and the Holy Spirit for guidance to read it continually. The Gospels were written well before the Bible was put together, and is what the early Christians used, and being directed by the Apostles themselves. I also use the Church’s doctrine to help me read it, but I fully trust in God’s guidance, but not in myself. I continually ask God for his help if I don’t understand something.

 

[Sherlock]

Anne G:

I I also use the Church’s doctrine to help me read it, but I fully trust in God’s guidance, but not in myself.

It’s the use of the word “but” that is the problem: you are creating a false dichotomy between God’s guidance and His Church, when they are, in fact, one and the same thing. That is why I and others have quoted the Scriptures to you that show Jesus establishing His Church and conferring authority to it. The problem with your method is that it is entirely subjective: though you say that you don’t trust in yourself but trust in God’s guidance, you are the one deciding what is and is not God’s guidance—you’re back to relying on yourself and your own interpretation. It is easy to be misled when doing this, and (wonder of wonders) it is very likely that we will find that following “God’s guidance” just happens to coincide with what we want.
If “God’s guidance” is telling you something that is not in accordance with His Church, then I would respectfully suggest that it is not God’s guidance at all but comes from another source. There is no conflict between God’s guidance and His Church.

 

[bear06]

Hi Anne,

The Church has not and cannot change doctrine. Doctrine is a truth and truth does not change. This is why, as Sherlock said, that the Galileo situation wasn’t a doctrinal one.

The Sacraments, however, are doctrine and, like I said, doctrine doesn’t change - ever. The example you gave of stem cells doesn’t change the doctrine. In your situation, however, you are trying to change the doctrine of the Sacrament of Marriage. The only time a Catholic is married without the Church officiating is when when they can’t get to a priest/deacon within a certain amount of time. For example, if you were stranded on a desert island and you were unable to get to a priest for (sorry, I can’t remember the exact time) you can marry a man without the Church officiating and with no witnesses. This is not your situation. Not only was your union not a Sacramental marriage, it was not a marriage at all. This is why you are free to marry again. If simply fornicated constituted a marriage then there would be no sin of fornication.

You’re right in that the Bible is the Word of God. What you are forgetting is that the Holy Spirit, through the Magisterium, is the only interpreter of the Word of God on earth and she always does it properly in dealing with Faith and Morals. She cannot err in this area. We have a few doctrines that are not spelled out in exact words in the Bible but I’m betting that you believe them too.

Let’s look again at the Bible:

19:3. And there came to him the Pharisees tempting him, saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
19:4. Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female? And he said:
19:5. For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.
19:6. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore *God ** hath joined together, let no man put asunder.
19:7. They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away?
19:8. He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
19:9. And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

These are key verses for your situation. God didn’t join you two, you did. The other key thing to see here is that Christ makes a distinction between those who are joined via fornication and those who are married in God’s eyes (that would be via the Church). If you are looking for a verse that says it is OK to marry in your situation, this is it.

 

[Anne_G]

bear06:

Hi Anne,

God didn’t join you two, you did. The other key thing to see here is that Christ makes a distinction between those who are joined via fornication and those who are married in God’s eyes (that would be via the Church). If you are looking for a verse that says it is OK to marry in your situation, this is it.

Again, I am not asking the Church to accept my union as a Sacramental marriage or any marriage, but that because I made an attempt at marriage (ie with the intent to marry) then I should have to abide by the same rules as a married person who has divorced ie not be allowed to be married by the Catholic Church in the future.
Yes, in my eyes at the time (before my conversion) I believed we were the same as married. I don’t know whether God accepted it as a marriage in his eyes or not, I just quoted scripture that could be read that he could in fact accept it, but again I have no idea whether he did or not, and I am in no way trying to justify what I did, I have fully repented for doing what I did.

Anyway, I found something in an old book “Apolegetics and Catholic Doctrine” by Rev M Sheehan. It states on Page 28 “it must happen rarely - that learned Catholics (I’m not sure if I fit that or not) see, or think they see, grave reasons for doubting some point of ordinary teaching of his Holiness they may represent their views to him, but must do so privately, respectfully, and with a profession of complete willingness to accept his final ruling”

I have been thought of as so terrible to question one teaching of the Church, but in fact the Pope and the Catholic Church are open to listen to me. My mistake is obviously that I didn’t keep it private. So I will not make any further posts to this one.

I thank every one that was polite, encouraging and understanding.

Unfortunately there were many that said how terrible my sin was and especially at how long it went on for, which made me feel pretty low. I have repented and should be forgiven by those people
and not have it thrown back in my face. Please read the above for the intent of my initial post. Jesus taught we are not to judge others, but I did feel that was the case of many here.

In case you are interested:
I was sexually abused as a child which led to me being very shy and withdrawn, and is the only reason I chose not to get married. I felt I couldn’t cope with the ceremony. I used to shake uncontrolably and not be able to speak, if I had to get up in front of other people. My ex partner wanted to get married in the first year but as stated I couldn’t cope with it. My Father committed suicide within this period, and because of my belief he would go to hell, I wanted nothing to do with religion. A few years later I decided it would be nice to marry in the Church, but upon approaching my partner he said I had my chance in the first year, and because I had declined he didn’t want to now or ever. I approached him numerous times with the same response. My Mother died of breast cancer which made me angry at God and put the marriage plan back down again. Then I had my conversion and unfortunately my partner turned on me after this. He thought that my “experience with God” meant I was mentally ill, and the fact that I changed overnight and changed my life to be a Christian was abnormal. He basically terrorised me mentally for the next seven years, and I was unable to approach him on marriage, but always held the hope that it would improve and a marriage might take place. He caused me to have a breakdown and end up in a pyschiatric ward citing my religious practices as obsessive and abnormal ie reading the bible every day, praying regularly, not doing things I used to do ie sinning. Unfortunately the Hospital took on board his information. Now it is all over, I have repented and God has been with me all through this otherwise I wouldn’t have survived it, praise God.
I did sin, I don’t wish for sympathy or remarks that I deserved it all. Compassion for a lost soul is what Jesus taught and rejoicing at a saved soul.
Please remember don’t judge what you don’t know, God is the only one who knows what is in our heart, and why we sin.

Anne G

 

[bear06]

because I made an attempt at marriage (ie with the intent to marry) then I should have to abide by the same rules as a married person who has divorced ie not be allowed to be married by the Catholic Church in the future.

But that is not biblical. Where is that in the Bible. I have shown you the verse that contradicts this. You are not bound by an attempt.

I don’t know whether God accepted it as a marriage in his eyes or not, I just quoted scripture that could be read that he could in fact accept it, .

Quite clearly the verse I showed you says that you are not considered married in his eyes if you were simply fornicating and fornicating is clearly shown not to be binding as per Christ himself.

I

have been thought of as so terrible to question one teaching of the Church, but in fact the Pope and the Catholic Church are open to listen to me. My mistake is obviously that I didn’t keep it private. So I will not make any further posts to this one.

It didn’t seem as if you were simply questioning the Catholic Church. You stated that the Holy Spirit was guiding you to try and get the Church to change its teachings on this matter. I’ve tried to explain to you that doctrine’s are truth and truth cannot change. There’s nothing wrong with questions.

Unfortunately there were many that said how terrible my sin was and especially at how long it went on for, which made me feel pretty low.

This is unfortunate but I don’t believe I did this. I simply based my arguments on your theories.

Jesus taught we are not to judge others, but I did feel that was the case of many here.

I can’t judge you but I can judge your arguments as being contra to Church teachings and the Bible. You, yourself, admit that they are contra to what the Church says. I’ve tried to show you that Christ specifically stated that:

19:9. And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery

I

I felt I couldn’t cope with the ceremony. I used to shake uncontrolably and not be able to speak, if I had to get up in front of other people

Somebody should have told you that you don’t need a crowd to get married in the Catholic Church. You need at least 2 people - a priest and a witness (I don’t even think 2 witnesses are necessary but I could be wrong) 3 tops.

. Then I had my conversion and unfortunately my partner turned on me after this. He thought that my “experience with God” meant I was mentally ill, and the fact that I changed overnight and changed my life to be a Christian was abnormal. He basically terrorised me mentally for the next seven years, and I was unable to approach him on marriage, but always held the hope that it would improve and a marriage might take place. He caused me to have a breakdown and end up in a pyschiatric ward citing my religious practices as obsessive and abnormal ie reading the bible every day, praying regularly, not doing things I used to do ie sinning. Unfortunately the Hospital took on board his information. Now it is all over, I have repented and God has been with me all through this otherwise I wouldn’t have survived it, praise God.

You have had a trying time and for this I am sorry. I do encourage you not to make life harder by becoming scupulous. Scrupulosity is also a sin. This is a good article about it and its remedies. newadvent.org/cathen/13640a.htm

I did sin, I don’t wish for sympathy or remarks that I deserved it all. Compassion for a lost soul is what Jesus taught and rejoicing at a saved soul.
Please remember don’t judge what you don’t know, God is the only one who knows what is in our heart, and why we sin.

I, for one, am thrilled that you are no longer with this man in a sinful and seemingly very unhealthy relationship. I am also glad you seem to have found help. I would recommend finding a good spiritual director to help you with your concerns. I will pray that you accept the Church teachings on this issue and come to realize that God, through His Church, has your best interests at heart.

 

[mlchance]

Magicsilence:

How do you KNOW she is wrong?

Because what she is saying contradicts the truth. Therefore, it is self-evident she is in error.

Magicsilence:

…why do you believe that all people who feel guided by the Holy Spirit are just insane ?

AFAIK, you’re the only person in this thread who has mentioned insanity.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Lillith]

Anne…it is a rough life. God Bless you for it all. When it is all said and done you are wiser for it aren’t you? What I get from your posts is that you don’t feel worthy of forgiveness by the Church because your relationship had more meaning for you than “just living together”. BUT…all those years were a gamble that you took…something you would never want for your children either.

You should go talk to a priest and explain all this to him. Your unworthy feelings might be coming from a past filled with abuse! I understand the confusion about the Churchs’ decision. I married my first Husband…basically tried to do right, and after he left I did not immediately get an annulment. I did not believe I would marry again…I met my second husband and now I have a mess! You don’t understand why you can partake in the sacraments and I cannot. The thing is you are right…only God knows! I think I have given a perfect act of contrition, and therefore been forgiven. The words that trip everything up is the I think part…That will be ruled on and soon I’ll know. The difference between you and I is razor thin…but important…I took a vow before God and broke that vow…you did not. For twenty years you have been separated from the eucharist…to me that seems like penance enough!

God Bless