Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-sex “Marriage”

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WillieWonka said:
Neither a gay couple nor a childless couple make babies or raise them.

However, straight, gay, and childless folks pay for kids’ education through their taxes. They provide a need for labor by purchasing the products of labor. They create industry by founding businesses. They provide vessels for the future by establshing commercial enerprises that are a source of support for many folks.
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One can only look to Europe to see what happens when your birthrate drops below replacement rate.
 
buffalo said:
One can only look to Europe to see what happens when your birthrate drops below replacement rate.
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What does that have to do with gay marriage? If gays can’t have kids when they are not married, and they can’t have them when they are married, then how does it matter?
 
WillieWonka said:
Neither a gay couple nor a childless couple make babies or raise them.

However, many straight and gay childless folks pay for kids’ education through their taxes. They provide a need for labor by purchasing the products of labor. They create industry by founding businesses. They provide vessels for the future by establshing commercial enterprises that are a source of support for many folks.
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Ya but ppl get old. Children create an industry around children. Then they in turn grow up to fill the position emptied by ppl getting old/dying

The church for 1 does not support the marriage between ppl who cant physically try to have kids… and infertility is grounds for an annulment… but we are talking about the state

It would be to expensive to do fertility test and to inaccurate. It is better to let some marriages slip by than waste money trying to stop a few.

There is no ? however with gay couples…kids wont happen.
 
WillieWonka said:
What does that have to do with gay marriage? If gays can’t have kids when they are not married, and they can’t have them when they are married, then how does it matter?
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No one is saying they cant put rings on each other’s fingers. The state should not give them money for their “commitment” or “love” b/c the state is not supposed to judge the validity of those things. The state should be concerned with helping the state. They can’t give money to people because the people say they love each other.
 
1catholic said:
Ya but ppl get old. Children create an industry around children. Then they in turn grow up to fill the position emptied by ppl getting old/dying

The church for 1 does not support the marriage between ppl who cant physically try to have kids… and infertility is grounds for an annulment… but we are talking about the state

It would be to expensive to do fertility test and to inaccurate. It is better to let some marriages slip by than waste money trying to stop a few.

There is no ? however with gay couples…kids wont happen.
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Nobody needs a fertility test. The tax breaks don’t need that. We already do it when parents take a deduction for kids on their 1040 form.

Let’s say the marriage tax breaks to all married folks add up to $100. Now, let’s say half of that goes to married couples with no kids. What did we get for that $50 tax break?

Now, suppose we distributed that entire $100 tax break to only the couples with kids. The couples without kids no longer got the tax break. So, we actually increase the support for those families with kids.
 
1catholic said:
No one is saying they cant put rings on each other’s fingers. The state should not give them money for their “commitment” or “love” b/c the state is not supposed to judge the validity of those things. The state should be concerned with helping the state. They can’t give money to people because the people say they love each other.
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I agree the state shouldn’t give money to folks because they say they love each other. So, why not let it all go to the couples with kids?
 
1catholic said:
it gives incentive to have kids, like paying ppl to work.
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If you give the tax break to couples who have kids, and also give it to couples who do not have kids, then it is hardly an incentive. That’s like giving money to people who do work, and also to people who do not work. It becomes an incentive only when it is limited to couples who do have kids.
 
Too much work for them. lol. But then again that has nothing to do with allowing gay marriage. If you want to drop marriage benefits to only those with kids that is a valid argument, but you can’t argue that gays should be added into the governments payroll
 
WillieWonka said:
Sorry.You must know more than I do. I can’t figure out how gay marriage effects population reproductive rate. How does it?
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marriage makes it harder to get out of the relationship in which the state hopes you will produce kids. THis is why divorce should be harder.

things gained through marriage:
Code: 
joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
crime victims' recovery benefits;
loss of consortium tort benefits;
domestic violence protection orders;
judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
and more....
 
1catholic said:
Too much work for them. lol. But then again that has nothing to do with allowing gay marriage. If you want to drop marriage benefits to only those with kids that is a valid argument, but you can’t argue that gays should be added into the governments payroll
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In the context of marriage tax benefits, there is no argument that anyone except parents should get a tax break.
 
1catholic said:
marriage makes it harder to get out of the relationship in which the state hopes you will produce kids. THis is why divorce should be harder.

things gained through marriage:
Code: 
joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
crime victims' recovery benefits;
loss of consortium tort benefits;
domestic violence protection orders;
judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
and more....
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OK. How does gay marriage effect a population’s reproductive rate?
 
WillieWonka said:
In the context of marriage tax benefits, there is no argument that anyone except parents should get a tax break.
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But those parents should be in a state recognized union. This is why the state gives benefits for married ppl and more for those with kids.
 
WillieWonka said:
OK. How does gay marriage effect a population’s reproductive rate?
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2 ppl die, 0 ppl come… negatively? lol
No one is saying they can’t “be committed” just the state can’t give them $$$ for it cuz they can’t do anything beneficial to the state in that commitment that otherwise they couldnt do.
 
1catholic said:
But those parents should be in a state recognized union. This is why the state gives benefits for married ppl and more for those with kids.
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If children are a social good, and provide for the strength of society, the state benefits from the kids regardless of the marital status of the parent/parent.

The unmarried couple may be raising kids. So might the single mother or widow. No tax breaks for them? Punish that family unit? Make them pay more so the married couple with no kids can pay less?
 
WillieWonka said:
If children are a social good, and provide for the strength of society, the state benefits from the kids regardless of the marital status of the parent/parent.

The unmarried couple may be raising kids. So might the single mother or widow. No tax breaks for them? Punish that family unit? Make them pay more so the married couple with no kids can pay less?
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No they get their breaks for having the kids, just like every one else, its just a bonus if you are married
 
1catholic said:
2 ppl die, 0 ppl come… negatively? lol
No one is saying they can’t “be committed” just the state can’t give them $$$ for it cuz they can’t do anything beneficial to the state in that commitment that otherwise they couldnt do.
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I’m not dealing with commitment in this post. I am exploring a post that said, "One can only look to Europe to see what happens when your birthrate drops below replacement rate."

I don’t see how married or unmarrried gays effect a poulation’s replacement rate. Maybe someone else understands this better?
 
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