Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-sex “Marriage”

[WillieWonka]

yeah…you missed it…

and its not just ‘gay pride month’…its a NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED month now…it’ll be on our calendars…incorporated into our school programs, just like MLK and other stuff is in schools during African american months…

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary

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For Immediate Release June 1, 2009

LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER PRIDE MONTH, 2009

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BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION

Forty years ago, patrons and supporters of the Stonewall Inn in New York City resisted police harassment that had become all too common for members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. Out of this resistance, the LGBT rights movement in America was born. During LGBT Pride Month, we commemorate the events of June 1969 and commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans.

LGBT Americans have made, and continue to make, great and lasting contributions that continue to strengthen the fabric of American society. There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. LGBT Americans also mobilized the Nation to respond to the domestic HIV/AIDS epidemic and have played a vital role in broadening this country’s response to the HIV pandemic.

Due in no small part to the determination and dedication of the LGBT rights movement, more LGBT Americans are living their lives openly today than ever before. I am proud to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions in the first 100 days of an Administration. These individuals embody the best qualities we seek in public servants, and across my Administration – in both the White House and the Federal agencies – openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.

The LGBT rights movement has achieved great progress, but there is more work to be done. LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.

My Administration has partnered with the LGBT community to advance a wide range of initiatives. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. We must also commit ourselves to fighting the HIV/AIDS epidemic by both reducing the number of HIV infections and providing care and support services to people living with HIV/AIDS across the United States.

These issues affect not only the LGBT community, but also our entire Nation. As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2009 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this first day of June, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.

BARACK OBAMA

whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Presidential-Proclamation-LGBT-Pride-Month/

how is it being forced down our throats?? well, if my daughter sits this month out…will she fail her class?

I suppose your daughter will fail if she sits June out. Why would she do that?

Thanks for the letter. This will be great fun in some quarters.

 

[WillieWonka]

Oh my…I just noticed this…how sad…in the year of our Lord…in which we adamantly defy Him…

Oh wait, I forgot, the Lord, religion…our values…beliefs…its all subjective…so…the ‘Lord’ he could be referring to could be…Lord Valtimor from Harry Potter!! woo hooo!!

Yes, he could be referring to anyone. Krishna, Jesus, Thor… One needs to be specific rather than general in these matters to avoid confusion.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

no one is implying that these people should be discriminated against, beaten…or killed huney…but marriage, unfortunatey for some, is between a man and a woman…not a man and a man…a woman and a woman…or a man and a horse…period. a man and a woman.

Sacred marriage in the Catholic church is between a man and a woman. Civil marriage is whatever the state decides it is.

I doubt you’ve ever had to clean blood off your car’s upholstery because a friend got the snot kicked out of him by a bunch of rednecks who wanted to “beat up a queer”. You’ve probably never been to the bedside of a friend who tried to kill herself because her family sent her to a “pray the gay away” camp. I also doubt that you’ve ever attended a funeral for a teenager who was shot by another child because he was gay. I’ve done all those things and I know how important civil recognition is to the gay community in terms of our safety. In NONE of those cases were any of the people “caught in the act”, they were injured, driven to suicide and killed because they dared to “look gay” or admit to an attraction.

People like you who think being gay is the same as wanting to marry a horse are the reason we need civil protection.

 

[WillieWonka]

no one is implying that these people should be discriminated against, beaten…or killed huney…but marriage, unfortunatey for some, is between a man and a woman…not a man and a man…a woman and a woman…or a man and a horse…period. a man and a woman.

Well, for those who consider marriage to be between a man and a woman, they are free to engage in such a marriage. Even in Massachusetts.

 

[WillieWonka]

Sacred marriage in the Catholic church is between a man and a woman. Civil marriage is whatever the state decides it is.

I doubt you’ve ever had to clean blood off your car’s upholstery because a friend got the snot kicked out of him by a bunch of rednecks who wanted to “beat up a queer”. You’ve probably never been to the bedside of a friend who tried to kill herself because her family sent her to a “pray the gay away” camp. I also doubt that you’ve ever attended a funeral for a teenager who was shot by another child because he was gay. I’ve done all those things and I know how important civil recognition is to the gay community in terms of our safety. In NONE of those cases were any of the people “caught in the act”, they were injured, driven to suicide and killed because they dared to “look gay” or admit to an attraction.

People like you who think being gay is the same as wanting to marry a horse are the reason we need civil protection.

Actually, I disagree. The state doesn’t say civil marriage is anything. The only requirement is $25, birth certificates, and two witnesses. That’s it.

So, civil marriage is whatever the couple says it is. Anything at all. Business, love, sex, drugs, something to do, way to win a bet, honor god, hatred, envy, greed, happiness, therapy, money, religion…

 

[buffalo]

Sacred marriage in the Catholic church is between a man and a woman. Civil marriage is whatever the state decides it is.

I doubt you’ve ever had to clean blood off your car’s upholstery because a friend got the snot kicked out of him by a bunch of rednecks who wanted to “beat up a queer”. You’ve probably never been to the bedside of a friend who tried to kill herself because her family sent her to a “pray the gay away” camp. I also doubt that you’ve ever attended a funeral for a teenager who was shot by another child because he was gay. I’ve done all those things and I know how important civil recognition is to the gay community in terms of our safety. In NONE of those cases were any of the people “caught in the act”, they were injured, driven to suicide and killed because they dared to “look gay” or admit to an attraction.

People like you who think being gay is the same as wanting to marry a horse are the reason we need civil protection.

You are right - man can and does make stupid laws detached from moral and natural law.

Right from the playbook - an appeal to emotion. So you think that the “safety” you seek will actually make you safer? Do you think natural law acts that way?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Actually, I disagree. The state doesn’t say civil marriage is anything. The only requirement is $25, birth certificates, and two witnesses. That’s it.

So, civil marriage is whatever the couple says it is. Anything at all. Business, love, sex, drugs, something to do, way to win a bet, honor god, hatred, envy, greed, happiness, therapy, money, religion…

Good point.

 

[WillieWonka]

You are right - man can and does make stupid laws detached from moral and natural law.

Right from the playbook - an appeal to emotion. So you think that the “safety” you seek will actually make you safer? Do you think natural law acts that way?

Does natural law kick the snot out of people, induce suicide, or shoot people?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

You are right - man can and does make stupid laws detached from moral and natural law.

Right from the playbook - an appeal to emotion. So you think that the “safety” you seek will actually make you safer? Do you think natural law acts that way?

I have no “playbook”, I simply outlined the experiences that have formed my opinions. We’re all products of the experiences of our lives to a certain extent, and sharing those experiences can often help us understand each other.

I believe when more thinking people realize that gay people are not what the bigots try to say we are, we will be less likely to suffer discrimination or violence. It’s never going to totally go away, because there will always be those who enjoy having a group to feel superior to, and there will always be those who believe we “deserve” such treatment because of our orientation.

 

[buffalo]

Does natural law kick the snot out of people, induce suicide, or shoot people?

The poster somehow thinks that civil law will normalize the behavior. It won’t.

Shooting people for whatever the reason is against the law. It is one of the 10 Commandments too. Battery is also against the law and prosecuted.

 

[WillieWonka]

The poster somehow thinks that civil law will normalize the behavior. It won’t.

Shooting people for whatever the reason is against the law. It is one of the 10 Commandments too. Battery is also against the law and prosecuted.

You mentioned Natural Law and connected it with shooting, suicide, and beatings. What’s the connection? If Natrual Law actually does work that way, why should any of us pay attention to it?

Well, civil law seemed to work in curbing lynching of blacks, securing voting rights, and eliminating Jim Crow. Attitudes really did change. Was that contrary to Natural Law?

We also see how attitudes have changed towards gays in the last 30 years. There has been great progress, and all indications seem to indicate the progress will continue.

 

[buffalo]

You mentioned Natural Law and connected it with shooting, suicide, and beatings. What’s the connection? If Natrual Law actually does work that way, why should any of us pay attention to it?

Well, civil law seemed to work in curbing lynching of blacks, securing voting rights, and eliminating Jim Crow. Attitudes really did change. Was that contrary to Natural Law?

We also see how attitudes have changed towards gays in the last 30 years. There has been great progress, and all indications seem to indicate the progress will continue.

The point I was making is natural law will prevail. You can legislate all you want. It will not make soemthing against natural law OK.

The homosexual act has nothing to do with Jim Crow laws or the color of one’s skin.

The act is deviate and the mistake homosexuals make is shoving it in the populace’s face. This will be its undoing.

 

[WillieWonka]

The point I was making is natural law will prevail. You can legislate all you want. It will not make soemthing against natural law OK.

The homosexual act has nothing to do with Jim Crow laws or the color of one’s skin.

The act is deviate and the mistake homosexuals make is shoving it in the populace’s face. This will be its undoing.

1. Does NL prevail through beating, inducing suicide, and shooting? If so, what good is it?
2. I agree gays and Jim Crow are not the same. However, the elimination of lynching and Jim Crow is an example of how civil law helped change both treatment and attitudes towards a minority.
3. How is any act shoved in your face? Can you be specific? How does this happen? Exactly what constitutes the shoving in your face? I haven’t noticed anything shoved in my face. What’s your experience? When was the last time it happened? Exactly what happened?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The point I was making is natural law will prevail. You can legislate all you want. It will not make soemthing against natural law OK.

The homosexual act has nothing to do with Jim Crow laws or the color of one’s skin.

The act is deviate and the mistake homosexuals make is shoving it in the populace’s face. This will be its undoing.

How many homosexual sex acts do you see on a daily basis? Are there gay people in your town having sex out on park benches or something? We don’t even have that down here where the weather is nice.

Other than that rather unlikely situation, I don’t know how any homosexual is shoving their “deviate act” in anyone’s face.

Gay people are not being discriminated against, nor are they victims of violence because they’ve been caught in the act. They suffer because straight people can’t seem to stop thinking about gay people having sex and anytime they encounter someone they think is gay they react to their own feelings about the sex.

 

[buffalo]

1. Does NL prevail through beating, inducing suicide, and shooting? If so, what good is it?
2. I agree gays and Jim Crow are not the same. However, the elimination of lynching and Jim Crow is an example of how civil law helped change both treatment and attitudes towards a minority.
3. How is any act shoved in your face? Can you be specific? How does this happen? Exactly what constitutes the shoving in your face? I haven’t noticed anything shoved in my face. What’s your experience? When was the last time it happened? Exactly what happened?

Somehow you are trying to conflate the two. Natural law does not support murder.

So you would say that civil law has eliminated prejudice?

Oh we can start with gay pride day or week anywhere.

 

[WillieWonka]

Somehow you are trying to conflate the two. Natural law does not support murder.

So you would say that civil law has eliminated prejudice?

Oh we can start with gay pride day or week anywhere.

Well, here’s what you told us. maybe you can explain a bit more?

“Right from the playbook - an appeal to emotion. So you think that the “safety” you seek will actually make you safer? Do you think natural law acts that way?”

So, how does Natural Law act?

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Civil law has not eliminated prejudice, but it has been a contributing factor in decreasing it.

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How does gay pride day shove an act in your face? Do you attend gay pride events? Do you encounter them? If you do encounter them, how is the act shoved in your face? Why do you go to gay pride events?

 

[buffalo]

Well, here’s what you told us. maybe you can explain a bit more?

“Right from the playbook - an appeal to emotion. So you think that the “safety” you seek will actually make you safer? Do you think natural law acts that way?”

So, how does Natural Law act?

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Civil law has not eliminated prejudice, but it has been a contributing factor in decreasing it.

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How does gay pride day shove an act in your face? Do you attend gay pride events? Do you encounter them? If you do encounter them, how is the act shoved in your face? Why do you go to gay pride events?

Let me try again. Natural law is unchangeable.

My duaghters have been exposed to gay pride in high school. Just two weeks ago my son was surprised that his visit to a theme park was gay day.

 

[Benadam]

Gay people are not being discriminated against, nor are they victims of violence because they’ve been caught in the act. They suffer because straight people can’t seem to stop thinking about gay people having sex and anytime they encounter someone they think is gay they react to their own feelings about the sex.

I think the real issue is the effort to eradicate morality opposed to homosexuality. That is shoving morals down peoples throats. All the while crying that morals are being shoved down throats.

The violence against gays is irrelevant to the discussion and is an appeal to false compassion. Anyone who believes homosexual acts are immoral lack compassion?

As far as immoral acts go and disordered passion I’ve got eneogh of my own to be concerned about what others do. OTOH civil society exists because of marriage between a man and a woman. This is the reason the state protects it. What reason would the state have to protect same sex unions?

You know how you feel when someone is lying to you? To accuse people of shoving morals down throats, while cleverly and covertly shoving morals down throats gets some people ticked. Manipulating the minds of people who don’t know better is eneogh to rile the tempers of some of those same people who know just eneogh.

 

[gearhead]

My duaghters have been exposed to gay pride in high school. Just two weeks ago my son was surprised that his visit to a theme park was gay day.

So?

I remember a few years back when World Youth Day was in Toronto - for a solid week, you couldn’t swing a cat on the subway without hitting a dozen Catholic teenagers or 20-somethings. Should I have taken offense at being “exposed” to all this blatant Catholicism?

 

[buffalo]

So?

I remember a few years back when World Youth Day was in Toronto - for a solid week, you couldn’t swing a cat on the subway without hitting a dozen Catholic teenagers or 20-somethings. Should I have taken offense at being “exposed” to all this blatant Catholicism?

Is Catholicism intrinsically evil?