Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-sex “Marriage”

[buffalo]

Thank you! At least you’re honest and not hiding behind God for your prejudice.

I pray that your children will not be homosexual too. I’ve seen the damage parents with extreme bias can cause.

That is only one aspect. And I do agree with Revelation and natural that the homosexual act is a mortal sin.

I do not want this for my kids. If one of them is SSA I will pray they do not fall and embrace and champion the act. I will pray that they take up this cross and remain chaste. I will try to talk with them and give them the resources to do so, and not fall for the secular response.

 

[WillieWonka]

see: newadvent.org marriage and sacraments

The cult of the prince of this world. We either directly or by acts make allegiance to him or to God, and the most welcome of them is to partake in a ritual based on an affront to God.

I’m in the best company, neither He nor I were popular.

What did He say about gays?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Freedom vs. License: From Father Corapi’s teachings we learn the following: Freedom and fear are at war. Freedom is not, “being able to do whatever you want to do.” That is license. If you have license, rather than authentic freedom, your house is built on sand and will collapse. Authentic freedom is the power to do what we ought to do; the power to choose the good, the true, and the beautiful. That will vanquish fear every time. If your concept of freedom is really license, fear will come out on top every time. Freedom has to be united with truth. There is no fredom outside of the truth: No authentic human freedom outside of the truth. “If you are truely my diciples, you will abide in my word. You will know the truth, and the truth till make you free.” True freedom is rooted in God.

It is indeed the truth, but no one today wants to hear the truth.

We have immolated ourselves on a pyre of our own pagan love. The sad part is that the innocent will burn in the bonfire to our vanities.

There are still people on this thread asking how Jesus would treat sinners. As if they did not know.

We know from the Bible, from Tradition, and from the Magisterium that Christ would love the sinner, and not the sin. Today sinners not only demand that we love them, but embrace their sin, and make parades in its honor.

And if as a parent you found your child was homosexual, WHY would you wish that child to be damned to eternal hellfire? So you can be ‘cool?’ So you can be best buds with your kid?

Why would you not love your child enough to want the highest possible thing for him?

If we perish in fire and pestilence, will we deserve any better?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

It is indeed the truth, but no one today wants to hear the truth.

We have immolated ourselves on a pyre of our own pagan love. The sad part is that the innocent will burn in the bonfire to our vanities.

There are still people on this thread asking how Jesus would treat sinners. As if they did not know.

We know from the Bible, from Tradition, and from the Magisterium that Christ would love the sinner, and not the sin. Today sinners not only demand that we love them, but embrace their sin, and make parades in its honor.

And if as a parent you found your child was homosexual, WHY would you wish that child to be damned to eternal hellfire? So you can be ‘cool?’ So you can be best buds with your kid?

Why would you not love your child enough to want the highest possible thing for him?

If we perish in fire and pestilence, will we deserve any better?

Why would you not love that child as he/she was created? Why tell that child that they will be damned to eternal hellfire for something they had no choice in?

And people wonder why gay children end contact with their parents and attempt suicide…

 

[buffalo]

Why would you not love that child as he/she was created? Why tell that child that they will be damned to eternal hellfire for something they had no choice in?

And people wonder why gay children end contact with their parents and attempt suicide…

There is no evidence that homosexuals are created this way.

A person finding him/her self in the SSA condition whatever the cause is called to chastity.

 

[gearhead]

It is indeed the truth, but no one today wants to hear the truth.

I want to hear the truth; I just don’t believe you have it.

And if as a parent you found your child was homosexual, WHY would you wish that child to be damned to eternal hellfire? So you can be ‘cool?’ So you can be best buds with your kid?

I don’t know of any parent who wishes to be damned to eternal hellfire. Personally, I reject your assumption that homosexuality leads to damnation.

Why would you not love your child enough to want the highest possible thing for him?

Indeed. And part of “the highest possible thing” is a committed relationship of mutual love. If my child turns out to be gay, then demanding that he live a celibate life effectively denies him that.

BTW - I’ve already pointed this out, but I think it bears repeating: banning same-sex marriage does not magically legislate away homosexuality. If you think that gay couples are damned to eternal hellfire, prohibiting legal recognition of their relationships will not save them from this. The only thing that we have power over is to decide whether or not to inflict unnecessary misery on them while on Earth.

 

[RyanML]

There is no evidence that homosexuals are created this way.

A person finding him/her self in the SSA condition whatever the cause is called to chastity.

Well, I know I certainly didn’t choose my attractions anymore than you chose yours.

I think it’s interesting that the only people who are “forced” into a vocation in the Church are gay people. I mean no one is forced to be a priest or religious but rather they are called to it as a vocation. No one is forced to choose marriage, single life, or consecrated virginity. All of these states are vocations that souls believe they are called to and yet when it comes to homosexuals, they are forced to choose only one vocation and that is to celibacy. We are told we aren’t even allowed to give our lives to another in a chaste relationship as it would be an “occasion of sin”. Basically, homosexuals are the only group for which the Church chooses and forces a “vocation” lest we all be damed to eternal hell fire.

 

[buffalo]

Well, I know I certainly didn’t choose my attractions anymore than you chose yours.

I think it’s interesting that the only people who are “forced” into a vocation in the Church are gay people. I mean no one is forced to be a priest or religious but rather they are called to it as a vocation. No one is forced to choose marriage, single life, or consecrated virginity. All of these states are vocations that souls believe they are called to and yet when it comes to homosexuals, they are forced to choose only one vocation and that is to celibacy. We are told we aren’t even allowed to give our lives to another in a chaste relationship as it would be an “occasion of sin”. Basically, homosexuals are the only group for which the Church chooses and forces a “vocation” lest we all be damed to eternal hell fire.

Every vocation in the church calls us to chastity.

The Church has no authority to override God’s plan or natural law.

 

[RyanML]

Every vocation in the church calls us to chastity.

Correct. But we know that there is a difference between chastity and celibacy.

The Church has no authority to override God’s plan or natural law.

True. I do not support a redefinition of marriage since I believe that God does have a specific plan for that Sacrament.

We will have to agree to disagree concerning natural law. The argument, it seems to me, is idealized and does not reflect the reality of nature or the diversity of God’s creation.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Well, I know I certainly didn’t choose my attractions anymore than you chose yours.

I think it’s interesting that the only people who are “forced” into a vocation in the Church are gay people. I mean no one is forced to be a priest or religious but rather they are called to it as a vocation. No one is forced to choose marriage, single life, or consecrated virginity. All of these states are vocations that souls believe they are called to and yet when it comes to homosexuals, they are forced to choose only one vocation and that is to celibacy. We are told we aren’t even allowed to give our lives to another in a chaste relationship as it would be an “occasion of sin”. Basically, homosexuals are the only group for which the Church chooses and forces a “vocation” lest we all be damed to eternal hell fire.

I’m still waiting for a straight person to answer the simple question: “When did you choose your orientation?” I would be very interested in this idea of “choice”, because I don’t recall making one and I have a pretty good memory. Perhaps if one of these straight folks that are so convinced that sexual orientation is a choice explained their process of choosing who they are attracted to, maybe I would understand better.

What you describe is the main reason why so many of my friends do not understand why I would choose to return to the Catholic church and live under those rules. It’s obvious to them that the Church places restrictions on us that she places on nobody else. The command for a single straight person to be chaste is nothing at all like the command that the gay person remain celibate. For the straight person, that condition isn’t forever, they can marry and the requirement ends. For us, it only ends with our death.

 

[WillieWonka]

Every vocation in the church calls us to chastity.

The Church has no authority to override God’s plan or natural law.

We should also remember the Chruch has no authority over our society, and its history provides no reason for society to look to it for leadership. It hasn’t shown itself to be any better or any worse than the average.

 

[WillieWonka]

I’m still waiting for a straight person to answer the simple question: “When did you choose your orientation?” I would be very interested in this idea of “choice”, because I don’t recall making one and I have a pretty good memory. Perhaps if one of these straight folks that are so convinced that sexual orientation is a choice explained their process of choosing who they are attracted to, maybe I would understand better.

What you describe is the main reason why so many of my friends do not understand why I would choose to return to the Catholic church and live under those rules. It’s obvious to them that the Church places restrictions on us that she places on nobody else. The command for a single straight person to be chaste is nothing at all like the command that the gay person remain celibate. For the straight person, that condition isn’t forever, they can marry and the requirement ends. For us, it only ends with our death.

I didn’t choose. I never even thought about a choice. And I can’t say I ever heard anyone say when they made that choice. I would be delighted if some straight could tell us how and when they made the choice. Anybody?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

I didn’t choose. I never even thought about a choice. And I can’t say I ever heard anyone say when they made that choice. I would be delighted if some straight could tell us how and when they made the choice. Anybody?

I think I hear crickets chirping…

 

[Benadam]

I didn’t choose. I never even thought about a choice. And I can’t say I ever heard anyone say when they made that choice. I would be delighted if some straight could tell us how and when they made the choice. Anybody?

The ol’ nature nurture debate.

 

[WillieWonka]

The ol’ nature nurture debate.

Yes. An unknown.

 

[edwest2]

We should also remember the Chruch has no authority over our society, and its history provides no reason for society to look to it for leadership. It hasn’t shown itself to be any better or any worse than the average.

“our society”? Who would that be, exactly? On a Catholic forum, the Catholic solution should be presented. It is proposed, not imposed.

I think history shows that the Church has been a help to society in general and education in particular.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Here is what the Catholic Medical Association has to say about the causes of homosexuality:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[WillieWonka]

“our society”? Who would that be, exactly? On a Catholic forum, the Catholic solution should be presented. It is proposed, not imposed.

I think history shows that the Church has been a help to society in general and education in particular.

Peace,
Ed

By “our society” I mean the population of the US.

The Catholic solution should be heard, discussed, and analyzed just as any other solution.

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Here is what the Catholic Medical Association has to say about the causes of homosexuality:

narth.com/docs/hope.html

Peace,
Ed

Gee…no inherent bias there…

Please, just answer the question posed. When did you-a straight person choose to be attracted to the opposite gender? How old were you? Tell us about your journey and what led you to make that decision.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Gee…no inherent bias there…

Please, just answer the question posed. When did you-a straight person choose to be attracted to the opposite gender? How old were you? Tell us about your journey and what led you to make that decision.

(1) Same sex attraction =/= homosexual behavior. They are two different things. Just ask the thousands of male prison inmates who have acted out “homosexuality” in prison, while neither before nor after being homosexual in orientation or attraction.

(2) Sexual attraction is a complex result of many factors, a very large number of which include environmental factors – positive & negative – which shape the individual. To date, scientists have not been able to locate any “gay gene,” despite the very sophisticated state of the science of genetics today.

(3) Use the search feature on CAF to find lengthy discussions on #2. This thread is not about the origins of SSA, but about the legal position of gay “marriage.”

(4) Initial attraction may or may not lead to ultimate orientation, depending on what other environmental and psychological factors are at play. I’ve known plenty of effeminate males who have never acted upon any early or later tendencies toward SSA, but are happily straight in their lifestyle – and without any aggressive intervention such as reparative therapy, etc. So at some point, they indeed did, despite a potential **orientation **toward the same sex, choose not to act on any homosexual or bisexual tendencies, and yet remained fully functional as sexual creatures in straight, society-approved marriages. Attraction is not determinism.

(5) We do not reward every aberration from the norm, nor every affliction in society, with legal status, even though essential rights (which do not include marriage; marriage has not been declared an essential constitutional right, nor should it be, as it is affected by and affects so many other social situations) are protected for minority groups, including gays, including disabled, & obviously racial minorities.