Defending Against Atheism

[MerryAtheist]

How did you go from being Catholic to atheist?

It started with anger over the way the sex scandals were handled.

My questioning the actions of the Church leadership, while alone not enough to make me lose faith, did prompt me to seek answers to other, more fundamental questions, like “Where does the authority of the Church come from and why did they fail so badly in this case?”

In my searching for answers, I did a LOT of reading and soul-searching, and I eventually came to believe that the Church was not, in fact, founded by Jesus. While this may not seem like a big deal (I am convinced one can have this view and still be a catholic), it was a big turning point for me because it showed me just how much of Catholicism I had accepted uncritically. After that “revelation”, I began to question everything from the teaching authority of the Church, to major dogmas (Mary, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, etc.). My research wasn’t based on just non-catholic sources, either, I read many catholic apologetical works along with the Catechism, and I believe I weighed all the information fairly before coming to the decision that, for me, Catholicism no longer made sense; it no longer had relevence for me.

Upon losing my faith in the Church, I began questioning my belief in Christianity using the same methods of researching both sides. Again, the result was a loss of faith in the Jesus story.

What followed was the inevitable examination of the question of God. The big question: Does God Exist? Again, after a rational examination of all the arguments pro and con, I was forced to realize that, while I could not prove with 100% certainty that God did not exist, the arguments in favor of God did not measure up to the arguments against, at least in my mind.

All the decisions to believe in God, Christ, the Church etc. must be based on faith. I was forced to conclude that I no longer had that faith (if indeed I ever had it in the first place).

Therefore, I became an atheist.

I don’t claim to “know” or even “believe” that God does not exist. I only claim to have no belief in his existence based on what I know and have learned about the world.

I do not regret leaving the Church. The world and the universe are subjects of great wonder and curiosity to me, far beyond what I ever felt towards my faith. And my brief life is even more precious to me now that I know it is the only one I’ll ever have.

Anyway, that’s the short version of my apostasy.

 

[MerryAtheist]

My experience is that their entire world view is built on it.

How so?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…
Since I define atheism as a lack of belief in God, does that mean I don’t believe in myself?

Yes it does mean that at least for you. Others suffer presumption and fit Mannyfit75’s statement. You are not simply visiting here. I want you to know you are welcome.

I hope you realize I respect you enough to tell you the truth.

 

[Ginger2]

I left when I was very young. Altho, I didn’t know I left, because my parents still sent me to Catechism.

The first time I asked a Nun a question and she couldn’t answer it, I no longer trusted their interpretations.

But I still believe in God. I know He exists.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[ricmat]

The world and the universe are subjects of great wonder and curiosity to me, far beyond what I ever felt towards my faith. And my brief life is even more precious to me now that I know it is the only one I’ll ever have.

Anyway, that’s the short version of my apostasy.

Atheists do not have a monopoly on viewing the universe with great wonder. But when I view the wonders, it gives me even more awe for God the Creator. I’m an engineer by training, so I tend to look for design, and know a good one when I see it.

And a short note: Your brief life is not the only one that you will ever have. Our souls live forever whether we want them to, or not. And whether we acknowledge God, or not. The existence of a real soul is pretty well proven in one of my favorite books “The Science before Science”. If you have an analytical background, it might be worth a look.

Also, Wisdom chapter 13 is worth reading…especially through verse 9. No, I don’t expect you to believe it because it’s in the bible, but when you consider that this was written 2500 years ago, I find it very interesting.

 

[MerryAtheist]

Yes it does mean that at least for you. Others suffer presumption and fit Mannyfit75’s statement. You are not simply visiting here. I want you to know you are welcome.

I hope you realize I respect you enough to tell you the truth.

Fair enough. I have no doubt that I will hear the “truth” from many others as well, whether they respect me or not.

I thank you.

 

[Ginger2]

One other question before I say goodnight… do you trust science?

I mean, do you believe in evolution and the Big Bang and such?

I studied up on these things and that I find harder to believe in than the afterlife. I was going to say God, but I find it easy to believe in God. Like I said, I know God is real.

 

[tdgesq]

How so?

Because none of the preconditions of knowledge are verifiable. They must be accepted on faith. That means the laws of logic and their universality and the reliability of the senses. And since you wrote this:

“there is no objective (scientific) evidence that God does exist.”

then there must be some basis for the reliability of scientific evidence, but that is not possible until the problem of induction (the uniformity of nature) is solved. The scientific method assumes that the future will be like the past. It does so based upon faith, because the scientific method itself cannot verify this.

I’ve always maintained that if atheists were true to their beliefs they would be philosophical skeptics, in which case they would have to admit that nothing can be known, not even that skepticism is correct.

You are a different kind of atheist though. I say that because I know of very few Catholics that later became atheists. If anything would do it, I suppose it might be the sex scandal in the western Church. All I can say is that the sacrament of holy orders isn’t magic. It doesn’t make a clergyman a good person who otherwise might be an outright scoundrel, nor does it necessarily make a weak overseeing bishop a strong bishop. Grace is offered, but it must also be courageously accepted. I am sorry that the Church has scandalized you in this way.

Perhaps look at the charitable works of the Church. Charitable acts seem to me to be a very strange phenomenon in an atheistic framework. There really is no denying that Catholics have done good in this world as well under the organization of the Church.

 

[Benedictus]

I mean, do you believe in evolution and the Big Bang and such?

I’ve yet to meet anyone who truly believes in those things with any sort of religious faith (and if they do, shame on them). Most people (from all sorts of belief systems) realize that they are sound scientific theories that are supported by all of the currently available evidence. Now theories do get updated as more evidence becomes available.

 

[MerryAtheist]

Atheists do not have a monopoly on viewing the universe with great wonder.

I never intended to give that impression. I apologize. I know many believers who also have a great sense of wonder regarding the universe - you and they attribute it to God. I don’t believe my sense of wonder any less because I don’t need a God as the reason for it all.

The existence of a real soul is pretty well proven in one of my favorite books “The Science before Science”.

Hmmm. Sounds like a pretty big scientific advance (the skeptical part of me asks: “I wonder why the scientific discovery of the soul hasn’t been covered elsewhere?”). Next time I’m at the library, I’ll see if the book there.

 

[homeric]

Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God

A link so valuable it’s in my signature as well.

 

[Ginger2]

If you are suggesting that the Big Bang is based on sound science than you are wrong. It is nothing more than a theory. It is against the laws of physics.

I am asking Merry Atheist if she has a belief on how the world came into existence. Just curious.

 

[MerryAtheist]

One other question before I say goodnight… do you trust science?

I mean, do you believe in evolution and the Big Bang and such?

I believe the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. I believe the Standard Cosmological Model (which includes the Big Bang) is currently the best explanation for the origin of the universe.

The above is not the same as saying “I believe in evolution” or “I believe in the Big Bang,” however.

 

[MerryAtheist]

The scientific method assumes that the future will be like the past. It does so based upon faith, because the scientific method itself cannot verify this.

I am severely out of my element here, so I will only say that according to my understanding, I agree the scientific method does predict future events based on the past, but the “faith” that you speak of is based on an observable past. I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow because I saw it rise yesterday, and every day prior to that. I know the sun exists because I have seen it. I do not have the same observed data about God.

 

[CollegeKid]

I never intended to give that impression. I apologize. I know many believers who also have a great sense of wonder regarding the universe - you and they attribute it to God. I don’t believe my sense of wonder any less because I don’t need a God as the reason for it all…

I mean this with no condescension, but since you do not believe in God, does this mean you believe there is essentially no reason at all for the existence of the universe, or perhaps, that everything just exists because it exists?

 

[Hubriss]

There is no objective scientific evidence that unicorns don’t exist.

(I will try to actually add something positive to this post at a later time, once I can get my thoughts together.)

HAH! That’s funny. I had to do a double take and read this twice to make sure I had got it all.

Convert to agnosticism this instant Mr. Saul.Tentmaker!

 

[MerryAtheist]

I mean this with no condescension, but since you do not believe in God, does this mean you believe there is essentially no reason at all for the existence of the universe, or perhaps, that everything just exists because it exists?

I believe we make our own reasons for existence. Here is a favorite quote:

"…purpose is not imposed from the outside; it is generated from the inside. We make our purpose. And there is a kind of dereliction of duty of us humans when we say that the purpose is to be imposed on the outside or found in some book written thousands of years ago. We live in a very different world than we lived in thousands of years ago. There is no question that we have many obligations to guarantee our purposes, one of which is to survive. And that we have to work out for ourselves.”

Carl Sagan, “The Varieties of Scientific Experience”​

To answer your question directly, no, I don’t believe there is an inherent reason for existence, nor does there need to be one. I think it’s hard for us humans to wrap our minds around the concept of “meaninglessness,” and that is one of the reasons for the development of religion, in my view.

 

[MerryAtheist]

I am enjoying this conversation, but I am afraid we seem to have derailed the thread from the OP.

Sorry about that, Equites Christi.

 

[Hubriss]

I can sum up a few words for Atheism. Atheism is nothing more than man making himself God.

…WRONG! Atheism is nothing more than freeing one’s self from delusion and opening up one’s self to the natural experience, hence free will.

All those titles like book club member and prayer warrior don’t mean much do they?

 

[edwest2]

“Man invents himself.”

A man by the name of Kurzweil is writing about an artificial “human being” and the great irony is, it will know it was designed.

A friend of mine said, “Unlike birds which are born with the ability to build nests and raise their young, human beings have to be taught.”

God bless,
Ed