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Maxirad
Guest
What should I say to someone who thinks that Leviticus condones child abuse?
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anixx
Guest
Can you be more specific, as to where does it state this?
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PNEUMA
Guest
That you are a christian, not a jew or muslim, and do not abuse children or defend that
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Starrsmother
Guest
I read Leviticus again, and unless I am particularly dense (always a possibility) I saw nothing condoning child abuse. Could you enlighten me?
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faithfulwannabe
Guest
The only passage I see about hitting a child is in Proverbs.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die.
Now I have to tell from my experience, when I was a child and I began to not behaving or didn’t want to listen to my mom, she’d take out the rattan & whip me with that. Yes, it’s painful. Yes, I cried, but after that I felt soo relieved & didn’t matter anymore.
But I do learn to behave after that
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die.
Now I have to tell from my experience, when I was a child and I began to not behaving or didn’t want to listen to my mom, she’d take out the rattan & whip me with that. Yes, it’s painful. Yes, I cried, but after that I felt soo relieved & didn’t matter anymore.
But I do learn to behave after that
C
Cricket2
Guest
If people followed this passage more there might not be so many kids running wild and without direction. I and my siblings all got a good spanking every once in a while. We had to really pull a good one so to speak but we earned every swat we got. And now they are memories that make us laugh. Sound discipline and abuse are not the same thing.The only passage I see about hitting a child is in Proverbs.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die.
Now I have to tell from my experience, when I was a child and I began to not behaving or didn’t want to listen to my mom, she’d take out the rattan & whip me with that. Yes, it’s painful. Yes, I cried, but after that I felt soo relieved & didn’t matter anymore.
But I do learn to behave after that
I hold no bad feeling about a single ounce of discipline I had.
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PNEUMA
Guest
My parents did the same and much worse to me, I did not invite them to my Confirmation, my Marriage, my children’s Baptism, my children’s first Communion, my children’s Confirmation.The only passage I see about hitting a child is in Proverbs.
Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die.
Now I have to tell from my experience, when I was a child and I began to not behaving or didn’t want to listen to my mom, she’d take out the rattan & whip me with that. Yes, it’s painful. Yes, I cried, but after that I felt soo relieved & didn’t matter anymore.
But I do learn to behave after that
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Starrsmother
Guest
We had 5 kids–3 boys and 2 girls. We spanked them all, not for just anything, but they all knew that when we gave them “the look” (as they still call it) and said “STOP!”, that they better listen or a butt beating was in their immediate future. Consequently, we could take them into restaurants, grocery stores,churches, movies or to friends’ homes and they weren’t detested and talked about behind our backs for acting like heathens! AND they still speak to us and invite us to everything. I now have 10 grandkids and a great grand daughter. All know that when they are with Grandma and she says “STOP!”–that they need to pay attention! We get along perfectly! I regret nothing–and by the way, my kids discipline my grandkids too!
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PNEUMA
Guest
That’s called social inheritance, children do to their children what was done to them, the abuse can go on for generation and just get worse and worse.We had 5 kids–3 boys and 2 girls. We spanked them all, not for just anything, but they all knew that when we gave them “the look” (as they still call it) and said “STOP!”, that they better listen or a butt beating was in their immediate future. Consequently, we could take them into restaurants, grocery stores,churches, movies or to friends’ homes and they weren’t detested and talked about behind our backs for acting like heathens! AND they still speak to us and invite us to everything. I now have 10 grandkids and a great grand daughter. All know that when they are with Grandma and she says “STOP!”–that they need to pay attention! We get along perfectly! I regret nothing–and by the way, my kids discipline my grandkids too!
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faithfulwannabe
Guest
well, we need to recognize the difference between abuse and sound discipline like what Cricket2 said. sound discipline would be like, take for example in a classroom, you’re a teacher, and the whole class just wont be quiet, so you need to shout, ‘SILENT!’ or something like that to make them pay attention. or in a courtroom, the judge will need to knock his gavel sometimes to make the room quiet so he can say something important.
yes, there needs a time for them to have their own time and you need to listen to what they say. yet there will also a time for them to pay attention to what you say.
yes, a time for everything.
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PNEUMA
Guest
No one said shouting at children is abuse, it’s physical abuse in any form that’s the problem.
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Starrsmother
Guest
Not abuse friend–discipline and I believe in it. I see far too many kids whose parents are afraid to discipline them that are detestable even as toddlers and druggies and sociopaths by their teens. As my kids hold down jobs and raise their families I am glad I chose to discipline mine and teach them how to live in society!
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PNEUMA
Guest
None of what you say is true, the “druggies and sociopaths” that kill themselves are the abused children and grand children, it’s just a question of time.
J
juliamajor
Guest
to the contrary -some psychologists say that verbal abuse is far worse than physical.if some one keeps saying you are ‘garbage’ that can a person’s whole life by making them believe that they will never be able to be someone,be loved etc. physical abuse does not always have that effect.
As far as scripture- let’s get real - you are talking of over three thousand years ago. You think child rearing may have changed? Beating the **** out of anybody is wrong.but i don’t think that was being said here. People still loved their children then and I don’t believe they wanted to inflict any unnecessary pain on them. but their method of correction was different as their society , culture and history are different from ours. It was not so long ago that naughty children in school were caned. Not pleasant and an opening for a sadist to get his jollies.
But knowing the Jews and Rabbis I am sure that they had rubric for that so that no one really got damaged.Restraint has been a part of Judaism for a long time.
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sirach2v4
Guest
Sorry, none of us so far can tell what you’re talking about.
Second, the view of the Catholic Church is to ultimately consider all of scripture, not just even an isolated verse.
Third, I’ve read Jewish commentaries on the Torah, and there’s no “commandment” among the 613 that says you have to abuse children.
To the contrary, I’ve seen the Jewish commentaries delve deeply into the incident with Abraham and Isaac – the “binding of Isaac” as they refer to it. The lesson back there in Genesis is that God does not want child sacrifice.
So, your question: “what do [you] say?” 1) nothing or 2) ask them to defend their point of view, within the context of the whole Bible.
I think somewhere in Leviticus or Exodus there is a command that a disobedient son is to be put to death (stoning). But, that is an example of a command written down that is meant to DETER bad conduct by the son. I don’t think there is any example of it ever happening, in the Bible.
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Starrsmother
Guest
Disciplining children was done differently at different times. My Dad–now dead–was born in 1901 to a German family of 14 living kids and 4 who died at birth or shortly after. My Grandpa was the family disciplinarian if whatever happened was worse than my Grandma felt she wanted to deal with. He spanked the kids with what is called a black snake, My Dad loved his parents and respected them and while I’m sure a whip left marks, they healed, and as my Dad used to say, every time he sat down for a week, he remembered what he’d done wrong.
My parents spanked my sister and I–but only in worst case scenarios when we’d really screwed up. I loved and respected my parents too–both now dead. I always knew when it got to the point that I was getting a spanking that I’d erred greatly and deserved it. I have 5 kids and we spanked them all–not beat them, just popped them on their butts. It was always a last ditch punishment after serious warnings had been ignored. My kids love and respect us–and they have chosen pretty much the same discipline pattern that we used on them for their own kiddos. Everyone makes choices and we all are just trying to raise kids that aren’t the blight of the neighborhood and grow up to be functioning, decent, moral adults.
My parents spanked my sister and I–but only in worst case scenarios when we’d really screwed up. I loved and respected my parents too–both now dead. I always knew when it got to the point that I was getting a spanking that I’d erred greatly and deserved it. I have 5 kids and we spanked them all–not beat them, just popped them on their butts. It was always a last ditch punishment after serious warnings had been ignored. My kids love and respect us–and they have chosen pretty much the same discipline pattern that we used on them for their own kiddos. Everyone makes choices and we all are just trying to raise kids that aren’t the blight of the neighborhood and grow up to be functioning, decent, moral adults.
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