Defending Religion

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Rachel84

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How does one argue with someone who says that as a Catholic (or christians in general) pick and choose what to believe out of the bible. How can a christian argue that abortion is wrong because the bible says so when they disreguard other things the bible says? (example: If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death…we dont kill someone for cursing their parents but the bible says to do so.)
 
The decrees of death for specific sins are in the in the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament that applied to the Israelites of that time. We as Christians, see the old law fulfilled in the Jesus Christ, who took on the punishment for our sins on the Cross. That doesn’t mean we can do anything we like, we still have follow the Ten Commandments but when we break them we can ask forgiveness and receive it through Jesus (and his priests in the sacrament of Reconciliation), if we are truly repentant. Of course in cases of murder and stealing there are civil laws to mete out punishment, but in the case of the other moral laws it’s up to God to judge our hearts.

Remember it was Jesus who said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7). So that does away with the stoning punishment because we are all sinners deserving of death. But Jesus reconciles us to the Father through his sacrifice. Hope that helps.
 
AnthonyM2 said:
The decrees of death for specific sins are in the in the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament that applied to the Israelites of that time. We as Christians, see the old law fulfilled in the Jesus Christ, who took on the punishment for our sins on the Cross. That doesn’t mean we can do anything we like, we still have follow the Ten Commandments but when we break them we can ask forgiveness and receive it through Jesus (and his priests in the sacrament of Reconciliation), if we are truly repentant. Of course in cases of murder and stealing there are civil laws to mete out punishment, but in the case of the other moral laws it’s up to God to judge our hearts.

Remember it was Jesus who said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” (John 8:7). So that does away with the stoning punishment because we are all sinners deserving of death. But Jesus reconciles us to the Father through his sacrifice. Hope that helps.
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But by saying that it applied to the Israelites of that time wouldnt it raise that argument that the bible should be revised and updated?
 
Rachel84 said:
But by saying that it applied to the Israelites of that time wouldnt it raise that argument that the bible should be revised and updated?
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oops…sorry I posted before I fully thought through what I was typing. What you said makes sense now. 👍
 
Anybody can quote the Bible to say what they want. I’m assuming this person you are talking about does not believe in Christianity? If that is the case, you can explain to them about how Jesus eliminated the need for the Mosaic Law which was very harsh. You can also explain how the Catholic Church has sought to help us interpret the often archaic and confusing texts of the Bible to apply them to life in a modern era. Through Tradition, the Church has helped us to clarify what it means to be Christian in todays’ world.

It is important to note that if the person does not believe in Christianity they most likely will never agree with your stance. Explain it to them as best you can and then let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
 
EeyoresButerfly said:
Anybody can quote the Bible to say what they want. I’m assuming this person you are talking about does not believe in Christianity? If that is the case, you can explain to them about how Jesus eliminated the need for the Mosaic Law which was very harsh. You can also explain how the Catholic Church has sought to help us interpret the often archaic and confusing texts of the Bible to apply them to life in a modern era. Through Tradition, the Church has helped us to clarify what it means to be Christian in todays’ world.

It is important to note that if the person does not believe in Christianity they most likely will never agree with your stance. Explain it to them as best you can and then let the Holy Spirit do the rest.
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You’re right, someone whose doesnt believe in Christianity (this particular person doesnt believe that religion should even exist) will never understand my stance. But I just find it so fustruating. I responded with the point of Mosaic law that applied to the times and heres how he responded. (hope you dont mind the cut and paste)

So your god is a monster who changed his mind.
If its not just people socially evolving, then you admit god was wrong at the beginning and decided something else would be better.
Before he wanted murder and death, and then he killed his own son so there wouldnt be anymore. Heres some more from the NEW TESTAMENT

Colossians 3:18

Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

1 Peter 3:1

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,

Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

So people, when youre arguing that marriage is designed by god, therefore gay people shouldnt be allowed to marry, think about the rest of “gods design” for marriage. If youre not following it yourself, then its pretty hypocritical to vote against a gay persons right to marry.

this quote, “God expects us to live by His standards and not those of the world around us.” sums up what I was saying about analysing religion from an open minded perspective. Youre basically not following the religion, which is why you can say “well I wouldnt do that, because I dont believe thats true. Youd have to be crazy to think that” while someone else will see it and say “I believe in god, I believe in my religion, my religion tells me this is the word of god… I must follow the word of god”.

Any thoughts on what I should say in return?
 
The debate going about abortion can’t be won using the bible. It can’t even be won by sound reason. The fundamental concepts that construct perception attached to the argument are in opposition.
 
Rachel84 said:
How does one argue with someone who says that as a Catholic (or christians in general) pick and choose what to believe out of the bible. How can a christian argue that abortion is wrong because the bible says so when they disreguard other things the bible says? (example: If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death…we dont kill someone for cursing their parents but the bible says to do so.)
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Proverbs 6:16-17 says that God HATES those who shed innocent blood! Deuteronomy 27:25 says, “Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

Is there a more innocent person than a baby in their Mother’s womb?

Question: Can a normal pregnant female be both male and female gender?
 
Rachel84 said:
How does one argue with someone who says that as a Catholic (or christians in general) pick and choose what to believe out of the bible. How can a christian argue that abortion is wrong because the bible says so when they disreguard other things the bible says? (example: If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death…we dont kill someone for cursing their parents but the bible says to do so.)
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We don’t pick and choose what to believe out the of the Bible. We read the Bible as a whole and see the big picture.
 
Benadam said:
The debate going about abortion can’t be won using the bible. It can’t even be won by sound reason. The fundamental concepts that construct perception attached to the argument are in opposition./QUOTE

A reasonable person after watching an abortion and how it is medically done would state this is unacceptable.

To inject saline into open wounds and watch a person writh in pain would you say is sound reason not to do it?

To disect a person while alive would you say is a reason not to do it?

To turn a baby’s body to breech in the birth canal, to allow the feet, legs,torso of a live person to come out of the birth canal, to hold the babies head in the birth canal and to make an incision with a scapel at the base of the skull, to scramble the brains with another instrument, and suck out what remain in the skull.

Is that what you would expect a reasoable person to accept.

By the way the entire scientific community believes the baby in the womb is human life.

The entire U.S. legal system reasons that the baby in the womb is life. Why even in liberal California —Peterson was convicted of double homicide

Why other than an abortion doctor to cause the death or harm to a baby in the womb even from the mother is a crime.

Reason would tell you that abortion in all aspects of our society is wrong.

It is not reasonable to suggest that a doctor can committ such an act but no-one else can.
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c659smith said:
Benadam;5235171:
The debate going about abortion can’t be won using the bible. It can’t even be won by sound reason. The fundamental concepts that construct perception attached to the argument are in opposition.
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Sadly that proves my point. Even the experience of being present to the suffering you mentioned is not eneogh. I don’t know what would convince those who are willing to abort children, that it is children they are treating this way. That it can be defined as human life doesn’t break through the thickness that refuses to believe a human person is suffering and victimized .
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