Defending the Faith with charity?

[Irish_Becca]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

 

[Tom]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

Welcome to the Forum. From what you’ve said, I think you did just fine. I’ve known many Baptists, and never heard any make any claim like that, I’d say it was his misunderstanding, and he would probably gotten much worse from his fellow Baptists.

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

It has to really grind yer Baptist gears when you are corrected on a fundamental doctrine of Christianity by a Bible totin’ Irish Catholic girl.
irish1: Glory Be To God! :irish1

As to charity, one of my favorite guidelines is taken from that movie “Coneheads” when they say, “maintain low tones…” Charity will fail when you resort to ad hominem or your motivation is to embarrass them or feed your own ego at their expense.

Sharing the faith or defending it can get weird because so often those who “witness” to me have been rude, aggressively offensive, (Hey I once had a guy threaten to “pop” me when I was quietly refuting something that a video we’d seen said about the Catholic Church! He later apologized after I very quietly pointed out that that was certainly would be a good example of Christian witness, but it was very much a calculated dice roll. I wasn’t much worried really. Let’s just say that I can take care of myself. ) and all kinds of stuff.

Rule of thumb: If you find it obnoxious in others, don’t do it yourself.

1st Peter 3:14: But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
15: but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16: and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17: For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.
Pax tecum,

 

[mercygate]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

Off topic: What kind of Baptist does not believe the Jesus is God? You don’t need to debate this guy. Send him to his Pastor. One thing is for sure: Baptists hold an orthodox doctrine of God.

 

[tkdnick]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

Wow, interesting position for a Baptist to have.

I find myself asking the same questions as well. It’s easy to get fired up, riled up, or intense when discussing The Faith. I think it’s important that when having these types of discussions we remember what our ultimate goal is - to present The Truth for The Truth’s sake is as charitable a way as possible. If we’re doing it just to prove we’re right, or just to show we know more, or any other myriad of self-oriented reasons; or if we’re rude or condescending in our approach, then not only are we doing it for the wrong reason, but we will also lose our audience.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

I’m just wondering how you know you’re being charitable when you defend the Faith. I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God. I showed him several places in the Bible where it clearly says Jesus is God, and I know I at least gave him something to think about. I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes. I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him. So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates? I don’t shout, but I talk loudly. I want to defend Catholicism, and I want to glorify God, but I don’t want to make anyone feel bad. Does anyone have any advice?

One thing you’ve got to remember is that, almost by definition, there is no “right” or “ideal” response to evil. There are dangers in a tough approach, dangers in appearing tolerant, and dangers in ignoring it. However there are some bad approaches.

Secondly, a non-Catholic is not necessarily personally evil - you can believe nonsense because of a legitimate sense of loyalty to the originators, or because you simp,y don’t have the intellectual capacity to see that it is nonsense.

In this case the Baptist seems to have arrived at some sort of interpretation which is at variance with traditional Baptism, as well as with the Catholic church, but is quite frequently held by non-Christians and people on the Christian fringe. What the writers of the New Testament actually believed about Jesus’ divinity is quite a complicated subject which theologians could discuss for hours. The simple statement that “they did not believe that Jesus was God”, unqualified, is simply false, as any cursory reading of the texts will reveal.

Somehow you have to communicate to the Baptist that, yes, there is a debate out there, but as things stand he is simply unqualfied to join it. He hasn’t got the basics, or understood the issues being discussed. That is hard to do whilst retaining respect and consideration for his feelings.

Firstly, use moderate language. Insults and swear words can easily be identified and avoided. They don’t add anything to a discussion anyway.

Secondly, you’ve got to avoid creating the illusion in his mind that he is participating in some sort of intellectual discussion. He’s not. He is being corrected. So don’t give him any sort of false flattery. When he says something that is falsifiable, simply say “this assertion is not correct”. That way he doesn’t feel that he is making points which are being dismissed. He is just making errors of fact and being corrected on them.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

tkdnick

… to present The Truth for The Truth’s sake is as charitable a way as possible. If we’re doing it just to prove we’re right, or just to show we know more, or any other myriad of self-oriented reasons; or if we’re rude or condescending in our approach, then not only are we doing it for the wrong reason, but we will also lose our audience.

---

Yes, we can get carried away. I do it all the time … an occupational hazard for apologists. On the other hand, if you’re stated position is strong enough, no amount of bad manners is going to sabotage your getting your point across. You are going to be leaving the other person with this thought: “Maybe this guy’s manners aren’t the best, but he does have a point … Hmmm.”

Better that than nothing. But yes … *mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
*

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I was debating a Baptist friend of mine who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God.

What? That would probably be one of the last subjects that I would think I would find myself arguing with a protestant about… That whole Sola Scriptura thing is really working out for them isnt it? Now they are using it to deny the Divinity of Christ.

I know that he thought for sure he was right about this, and I am afraid I embarrassed him. I don’t think I was mean, I didn’t call him any names, but I do get fired up about things sometimes.

It was probably nothing you said, and had more to do with something you did. What you did was show him you were right and he was wrong, and you shouldnt feel sorry for that. If he was embarresed, it was only because he was wrong and knew it.

I felt bad afterwards, like I had been unkind, or humiliated him.

Don’t feel bad about, you are helping this person. I mean for crying out loud he calls himself a Baptist yet denies Christ was God.

So, how do you know when you’re being charitable? How do you keep yourself calm during debates?

I don’t argue to win. I defend my faith but if I am wrong I want to know, just like I hope that is what they are thinking. There was a tract done by CA about being AW-fensive without being offensive (or something like that), your should look for that.

God Bless