Defending the Sunday Obligation

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Great Response. I have some friends that are not Catholics and I’m always defending the Catholic Church. Keeping The Sabbath is one of the topics that often comes up. As I mentioned I liked your response, especially regarding obligation, however I caught something that may be caught by the constant criticizers.
The Church, as a wise mother,
I just want to cover all the tracks. We know the Church is the Bride. I feel the critics/ Non Catholics (some) can be foolish with their talk regarding Mary the Mother of Jesus, and I can just hear them now regarding the response ‘The Church, as a wise mother’. I understood our Heavenly Mother was Mary the Mother of Jesus. So if I could get some help with this that would be great.
 
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HomeschoolDad:
The Church, as a wise mother,
I just want to cover all the tracks. We know the Church is the Bride. I feel the critics/ Non Catholics (some) can be foolish with their talk regarding Mary the Mother of Jesus, and I can just hear them now regarding the response ‘The Church, as a wise mother’. I understood our Heavenly Mother was Mary the Mother of Jesus. So if I could get some help with this that would be great.
It is obviously metaphorical, and is in the same spirit as “Holy Mother Church”. Classical, traditional Catholicism refers to the Church as a mother, just as it refers to Our Lady as our mother, and indeed, Mother of the Church.

Incidentally, “Mother of God” sounds appalling to Protestants. To them, it comes across as Mary having pre-existed God, as though she is above God Himself. Not suggesting we should change our terminology to suit them, just that it takes some explaining, and is probably not the very first thing we should say, in discussing Our Lady with Protestants. Milk before meat, so to speak.
 
I just want to cover all the tracks. We know the Church is the Bride. I feel the critics/ Non Catholics (some) can be foolish with their talk regarding Mary the Mother of Jesus, and I can just hear them now regarding the response ‘The Church, as a wise mother’. I understood our Heavenly Mother was Mary the Mother of Jesus. So if I could get some help with this that would be great.
Jesus is the image of God, we can’t see God, but we can see Jesus, we can relate to Jesus & understand (in our way) Jesus.

Likewise, the Church is difficult to understand. The Mother of God provides an image we can “understand.” She is the Spouse of The Holy Spirit. The Church is the Bride of Christ.

That’s how I see it.

Pray, hope, & don’t worry
 
Good points. I think too often people assume that the first thing we Catholics do is buttonhole poor Protestants and start in: HI I’m Catholic and I just want to say we don’t worship Mary or the saints and statues aren’t idols they’re just like pictures of your family and sure we think you all are Christian too and have some of the truth and did you know that ALL Christians believed in the Immaculate Conception and the Perpetual Virginity and Jesus never had flesh and blood brothers and the Pope is only like a Dad because call no one Father doesn’t mean we don’t call our own dads father right? And dads are like the head of things and Mary is like our Mother because she is Jesus’ Mother and that’s why she’s the Mother of God and we don’t recrucify Jesus at Mass and. . . . You know, kind of throwing everything out there at once.

Of course, on too many of these fora we see too many Protestant posts like this:

Hi I’m a Christian and I just wonder why Catholics worship Mary and the saints because the Bible tells us we shouldn’t speak to the dead and we shouldn’t worship idols like Catholics do with statues and of course your Church made up all kinds of stuff like ‘priests’ and forbid them to marry and don’t eat meat and THE BIBLE SAYS that people who do that are evil. And Christmas trees, those are so evil. Plus you killed millions of Protestants at the stake with the Inquisition and you added books to the Bible and you chained it up too and won’t let people actually READ it and you force women to be nuns and sacrifice them to the priests, the ones that AREN’T pedos, and how can you LIVE with yourselves with all the evil things your Church does. . .

I don’t know whether some of it is just lazy cut and paste from trolls or troll sites, coupled with the fact that in the last 50 years or so the vast majority of students have been so poorly educated with regard to English grammar and composition that they actually think of the examples above as ‘real good arguments’ and ‘compelling”, or whether it’s just one of those ‘modern world things’. I remember back in the 1970s when, overnight, everybody in the US (and a fair amount in Canada and Europe) started serving spinach dip at virtually every function, and claiming that they had invented the recipe. Even my older sister came down to our house one evening with a bowl and said, “Have a taste of this! I wanted to make some dip and all I had was some sour cream and water chestnuts and spinach —isn’t this DELICIOUS?” It might have been, except for the last few weeks virtually every party I went to—I was in college at the time—had a bowl of this stuff, and I wasn’t particularly fond of spinach! Some things just ‘become fashionable’, and then it seems you see the same things everywhere, all the time!
 
There is an “obligation” for those who need a little help getting in the right mindset.
I like this concept of why there’s an obligation. For myself I also lie the obligation aspect because it indicates to me that it’s very important to God. There are a millions ways & places I could pray to God, but the fact that Mass is an obligation shows that it means a lot to God. If I’m not going to get to any other type of prayer, I get to that one. 🙂
 
I don’t know whether some of it is just lazy cut and paste from trolls or troll sites, coupled with the fact that in the last 50 years or so the vast majority of students have been so poorly educated with regard to English grammar and composition that they actually think of the examples above as ‘real good arguments’ and ‘compelling”
FWIW I used to know a professor who worked at a not very good state school due to a family situation and the vast majority of their students were evangelical Protestants who were not very well educated, and their response to virtually everything taught, history, social sciences etc, was “the Bible says” followed by some Bible quote out of context, and all written with bad spelling/ grammar. It was apparently how they were taught to think en masse. They had no critical thinking skills about anything, according to the professor.

I’m not saying every evangelical Protestant young person is on this level, but huge numbers of them reportedly are.
 
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Good points. I think too often people assume that the first thing we Catholics do is buttonhole poor Protestants and start in: HI I’m Catholic and I just want to say we don’t worship Mary or the saints and statues aren’t idols they’re just like pictures of your family and sure we think you all are Christian too and have some of the truth and did you know that ALL Christians believed in the Immaculate Conception and the Perpetual Virginity and Jesus never had flesh and blood brothers and the Pope is only like a Dad… And dads are like the head of things and Mary is like our Mother because she is Jesus’ Mother and that’s why she’s the Mother of God and we don’t recrucify Jesus at Mass and. . . . You know, kind of throwing everything out there at once.

Of course, on too many of these fora we see too many Protestant posts like this:

Hi I’m a Christian and I just wonder why Catholics worship Mary and the saints because the Bible tells us we shouldn’t speak to the dead and we shouldn’t worship idols like Catholics do with statues and of course your Church made up all kinds of stuff like ‘priests’ and forbid them to marry and don’t eat meat… And Christmas trees, those are so evil. Plus you killed millions of Protestants at the stake with the Inquisition and you added books to the Bible…and you force women to be nuns and sacrifice them to the priests, the ones that AREN’T pedos…
Actually, I would start out with explaining the first 1500 years of the Church (Orthodoxy isn’t even on most Protestants’ radar screen), and how we didn’t just pick up the Bible and start interpreting it — “first of all, why do you believe in the Bible to begin with, and how do you think it came together in the first place, how was it preserved even in those earliest years, and what did the Church look like through the centuries, all of them, not just the past five or six?”. For many Americans, history began in 1492, then somehow we fast-forward to Plymouth Rock and Jamestown. I don’t remember, in eight years of public primary education, ever once being told that Columbus was Catholic and brought priests with him (though, admittedly, not the first time):


(Note well: I am not a TFP adherent, I wouldn’t agree with them 100% on everything, but they put out some good stuff, and this is one example.)

Then, after having done that, I would try to bring up the Real Presence at some point, and John 6:53 (as well as to point out that Our Lord allowed many people to leave Him, when He could easily have said “oh, don’t take this literally, it’s just a symbol” — had that been the case!).

The “no Christmas trees” think is from Garner Ted Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God. Never heard that one before about nuns being sacrificed to priests as carnal slaves. You can never know too much about the other side’s objections.

Your spinach dip sounds good (I’d add some MSG and garlic powder, or possibly some Hidden Valley mix), but then again I like spinach. I’ll have to try it.
 
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I am under no obligation to attend church each Sunday to worship God.
  • a debt of gratitude for a service or favor.
I don’t want to be under an obligation to attend church each Sunday to thank God for creating and sustaining me.
If you’re Protestant, you are correct. There is no obligation to go every week. In fact, I don’t see the point of going at all.

If you are Catholic, then yes, you’re obliged to go every Sunday & Holy day of obligation. It is right & just.
 
FWIW I used to know a professor who worked at a not very good state school due to a family situation and the vast majority of their students were evangelical Protestants who were not very well educated, and their response to virtually everything taught, history, social sciences etc, was “the Bible says” followed by some Bible quote out of context, and all written with bad spelling/ grammar. It was apparently how they were taught to think en masse. They had no critical thinking skills about anything, according to the professor.

I’m not saying every evangelical Protestant young person is on this level, but huge numbers of them reportedly are.
This kind of indoctrination (we used to just call it brainwashing) is particularly rampant among certain denominations, but I’m going to venture a thought that one positive thing social media has contributed to is the decline of this… their friends and others in their online circles push back too much, forcing at least a little more cognitive exercise.
 
Your spinach dip sounds good (I’d add some MSG and garlic powder, or possibly some Hidden Valley mix), but then again I like spinach. I’ll have to try it.
MSG?!? Surely you jest. Dr. Blaylock & Dr. Brownstein say that it’s an excitotoxin & neurotoxin. (Dr. Blaylock wrote an entire book on it.) I wouldn’t touch that stuff with a 10-ft pole. 😝
 
This is so far off topic, but MSG swells me up. Tomato does too, even just the juices from a salad apparently (picking around tomato slices)…
 
If you’re Protestant, you are correct. There is no obligation to go every week. In fact, I don’t see the point of going at all.

If you are Catholic, then yes, you’re obliged to go every Sunday & Holy day of obligation. It is right & just.
Maybe I am more of a “fundamentalist” than I imagined. I just go to mass because I want to and not because I have an obligation. Although, there are times when I get lazy and then the obligation thing kicks in. 🙂
 
Maybe I am more of a “fundamentalist” than I imagined. I just go to mass because I want to and not because I have an obligation. Although, there are times when I get lazy and then the obligation thing kicks in.
Understood. I’m the same. I also go to confession when I miss Mass for no good reason. A couple of times the process was enlightening.

But yeah, Orthodox aren’t required to confess missing Divine Liturgy before receiving communion again, as the “offense” doesn’t meet the degree we Latin Rite Catholics do.

& yes, to my understanding Byzantine Catholics treat it as the Orthodox do.
 
If you are Catholic, then yes, you’re obliged to go every Sunday & Holy day of obligation. It is right & just.
For many dioceses, that is not the case at this point in time. Where I am, the Sunday obligation is still suspended indefinitely.
 
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HomeschoolDad:
Your spinach dip sounds good (I’d add some MSG and garlic powder, or possibly some Hidden Valley mix), but then again I like spinach. I’ll have to try it.
MSG?!? Surely you jest. Dr. Blaylock & Dr. Brownstein say that it’s an excitotoxin & neurotoxin. (Dr. Blaylock wrote an entire book on it.) I wouldn’t touch that stuff with a 10-ft pole.
This is so far off topic, but MSG swells me up. Tomato does too, even just the juices from a salad apparently (picking around tomato slices)…
MSG has never had any ill effects on me, as far as I can tell, and I use it sparingly in various dishes to boost the flavor. Salt probably acts just as well. Trader Joe’s also has an umami seasoning I picked up recently, it’s all right but tasted a little earthy. Probably the mushrooms in it.

Parmesan cheese is an umami madman!

I will let it go at that, before somebody has an issue with going “off-topic”.
 
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