Defense of others

[HNA444]

According to the lsw, if a person stranger to you) was being physically harmed, you can defend them and possibly even kill them. I know that it’s not a sin to physically harm someone if they are trying to kill you, but what about if it’s a stranger you are defending? Is it a sin to kill someone for them?

 

[benidict]

As a Soldier, and Military Police, If I come across a person who is being attacked, I can use lethal force to stop the attack if need be. I have no problem with this. If I come across a woman being raped, I am authorized to kill the perpetrator without gong thru the levels of force. Again, no problem. I am able to do this, and sleep fine. I would however Lose sleep over worrying about the victim, even after they are safe. Peace

 

[FightingFat]

According to the lsw, if a person stranger to you) was being physically harmed, you can defend them and possibly even kill them. I know that it’s not a sin to physically harm someone if they are trying to kill you, but what about if it’s a stranger you are defending? Is it a sin to kill someone for them?

I think the spirit of the teaching is that you should never set out to kill someone, however if they die as a result of what they are doing, while you are trying to protect someone else, stranger or not, using the minimum of force, it is their action which is morally reprehensible, not yours.

 

[FightingFat]

As a Soldier, and Military Police, If I come across a person who is being attacked, I can use lethal force to stop the attack if need be. I have no problem with this. If I come across a woman being raped, I am authorized to kill the perpetrator without gong thru the levels of force. Again, no problem. I am able to do this, and sleep fine. I would however Lose sleep over worrying about the victim, even after they are safe. Peace

Brother, while I stand in awe of your service, I might point out:

2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.

2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person’s death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them, is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense. Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.71

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

 

[benidict]

Brother, while I stand in awe of your service, I might point out:

2268 The fifth commandment forbids direct and intentional killing as gravely sinful. The murderer and those who cooperate voluntarily in murder commit a sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance.69

Infanticide,70 fratricide, parricide, and the murder of a spouse are especially grave crimes by reason of the natural bonds which they break. Concern for eugenics or public health cannot justify any murder, even if commanded by public authority.

2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of indirectly bringing about a person’s death. The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reason, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them, is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense. Those whose usurious and avaricious dealings lead to the hunger and death of their brethren in the human family indirectly commit homicide, which is imputable to them.71

Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Agreed but you also have to take the immediate harm to the victim into account. Peace

 

[FightingFat]

Agreed but you also have to take the immediate harm to the victim into account. Peace

I wouldn’t dream of trying to tell you anything about this, I’m sure you know much more about it than me.

 

[benidict]

I wouldn’t dream of trying to tell you anything about this, I’m sure you know much more about it than me.

Please dont take offense. I understand perfectly where you are coming from. This is why I talk alot of people out of doing what I do. Hesitation cannot happen in some situations, and the moral ramifications even if you are in the right, can be a terrible burden. Peace to you, and thank you for your support.

 

[FightingFat]

Please dont take offense. I understand perfectly where you are coming from. This is why I talk alot of people out of doing what I do. Hesitation cannot happen in some situations, and the moral ramifications even if you are in the right, can be a terrible burden. Peace to you, and thank you for your support.

Peace be with you too brother.

 

[Alix1912]

The commandment reads: Thou shalt not murder. Not thou shalt not kill. If you have to kill someone to protect an innocent (even a stranger) it is OK, regretable, sad, but not a sin.

Policeman, armed serviceman, and many others are put in this situation daily.

 

[SeaShoreGirl]

If God did not direct us to protect the wak and innoced we’d certinally be in a very scary world.

Children would “have” to be left in the hands of their abusers beucase they are strangers to us.

Slaves would left in servitude becuase we weren’t related.

Elders could be robbed becuase they’re no one to us.

We are called to action…not often, but if I had to kill a man to stop him from beating his small child you’d better believe I would. (note: not spanking or disciplining…BEATING) I wouldn’t enjoy it, I would probably lothe myself for a long time for taking the life of another…but it would be better than having the blood of an innocent child on my hands as I sat by and watched him or her be pulverized.

If a shopkeeper was beathing a thief, I’d be careful to step in unless the keep was beating a unconsious man. If the theif was beating the shopkeep I’d jump in to defend the man who was just doing his job.

We are called to defend life. Sometimes when we see an aggregious action we are called to act. It’s not ideal, but it’s necessary.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The OP’s question was not specifically about police or the military… It seemed to be about ordinary people. Now there may be occasions when ordinary people are required to step in and perform this protective service. But let’s not forget that police and military personnel are specially trained to avoid making mistakes. The average person is not. So we should be very reluctant to take upon ourselves the responsibility of possibly ending someone’s life just because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[Shredderbeam]

As a Soldier, and Military Police, If I come across a person who is being attacked, I can use lethal force to stop the attack if need be. I have no problem with this. If I come across a woman being raped, I am authorized to kill the perpetrator without gong thru the levels of force. Again, no problem. I am able to do this, and sleep fine. I would however Lose sleep over worrying about the victim, even after they are safe. Peace

Are there other cases where you are permitted to use lethal force without going through the levels of force?

 

[benidict]

Are there other cases where you are permitted to use lethal force without going through the levels of force?

Yes. If we come upon a woman being raped, A person about to use a weapon on another or ourselves. levels of force escilate and de escalate depending on what the perpertrator does. I cannot tell you what levels a civillian police officer has. I can only speak from the stance of the Military police. usually it goes like this. verbal persuasion, unarmed self defense, O.C. spray, M.P. working dog, presentation of deadly force, deadly force. You can skip steps if the situation warrents it. or go back steps if the situation warrants it. If I left something out, forgive me. Im in theater now, and have not worked the road in a year. The rules for combat are similar though. We use the shout, shove, show, shoot method in theater

 

[benidict]

The OP’s question was not specifically about police or the military… It seemed to be about ordinary people. Now there may be occasions when ordinary people are required to step in and perform this protective service. But let’s not forget that police and military personnel are specially trained to avoid making mistakes. The average person is not. So we should be very reluctant to take upon ourselves the responsibility of possibly ending someone’s life just because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

very wise advice.