Defiling the Eucharist

[Gottle_of_Geer]

My next door neighbor who earned a masters degree in Philosophy just recently showed up one Sunday morning for mass in the Anglican church in which my wife, son and myself belong to. It kind of shocked me because he is pretty much a dyed in the wool Evangelical Christian of some kind. he seemed to being doing pretty well through the readings, Fr. Andrew’s sermon, the Nicene Creed and everything of course leading up to the Eucharist and its concecration. It was then that I was blown away by what he said. As our priest was consecrating the bread and wine, my neighbor leaned over and said to me in a low voice, “if he was using a Snickers bar and a Coke, it would be the same exact thing”. I told him afterward that I was greatly offended by this and we haven’t spoken since. What are some of your thoughts on this?

That to be not on speaking terms about something that is supposed to be a sign of unity would be hilarious, if it were not so sad & so horribly ironic. The more I think of this, the more miserable & horrible & horrifying it all looks ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, unsure if they subscribe to consubstantiation though. I am not sure if this is a good Anglican web-site or not but it does have the Anglican 39 articles on it. From the articles:

• Bold mine *

The Lords Supper is also considered a Sacrament in the Anglican faith:

anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html

I would say that an Anglican believe it is truly the Body and Blood of our Lord. I will let an Anglican clarify though as to what they believe.

God bless

The Articles quoted can bear different interpretations:​

• that the Lord is present in the Gifts in a real mode
• that He is present only to those who receive the gifts in faith

What they reject, is any substantial mode of His Presence - & that, is what Trent insisted on; the real presence is not peculiar to this Sacrament: the “substantial presence” is.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hello again GKC,

And I thought backing up my opinion with the Articles would be a sure fire way of proving my opinion. Why do you Anglicans have to be so slippery?

Would you be willing to hazard a guess as to whether or not the Real Presence is affirmed within the Anglican communion more than it is denied?

If you don’t mind me asking, are you one who affirms or denies the Real Presence.

God bless

Anglicans aren’t slippery - nor is Anglicanism. It just happens to be held together by other bonds than the CC. It is - or it was - held together by its Liturgy: not by its doctrine. IMO, Liturgy is a much better bond, partly because it is what held the OT Church together. Fussing over doctrine merely causes endless heresies & schisms & hatreds in honour of a God of Love: Dogma is the bane of Christianity - it’s a deadly and highly corrosive venom: it’s ask for trouble to be bound by that. So “it hath ever been the wisdom of the Church of England” to tolerate a certain diversity in doctrine, instead of plumping for Romanism or Calvinism or Evangelicalism or any other doctrinal -ism.​

 

[GKC]

Anglicans aren’t slippery - nor is Anglicanism. It just happens to be held together by other bonds than the CC. It is - or it was - held together by its Liturgy: not by its doctrine. IMO, Liturgy is a much better bond, partly because it is what held the OT Church together. Fussing over doctrine merely causes endless heresies & schisms & hatreds in honour of a God of Love: Dogma is the bane of Christianity - it’s a deadly and highly corrosive venom: it’s ask for trouble to be bound by that. So “it hath ever been the wisdom of the Church of England” to tolerate a certain diversity in doctrine, instead of plumping for Romanism or Calvinism or Evangelicalism or any other doctrinal -ism.​

Even so, I know some slippery Anglicans.

GKC

 

[GKC]

RE: the Articles
They were written with confusing language as a compromise between the High Church party and the puritans. There’s one I forget the number that talks about Purgatory relics and processions of the blessed sacrement being “vainly invented and repugnant to the word of God” on asking an Anglican priest about that he said but, there’s nothing in there that says you can’t do it.
The reason I left was a laissez faire attitude about celebration of the Eucharist,(morning prayer would periodically replace the eucharist because Father didn’t want to do it or was on vacation) slippery slope dogma and praxis, we could distribute the cup as lay persons but not the hosts. The final straw was being asked to clean the tabernacle which I had been venerating and finding it to be quite empty- no reserve sacrement at all, this despite the perpetual candle I had to diligently replace every week!
Apparently there are some protestant churches where reverence for the church and altar are almost non-existant. I can give two examples. 1) I was waiting in a Catholic hospital chapel for a friend of mine who when she appeared brought a coke into the chapel and proceeded to set it down on the altar!:bigyikes::tsktsk: The second one equally as bad. I was wating for a John Michael Talbot concert in a church when this lady waltzed in made herself at home in the reserved section for community members only and pulled out her lunch and began to eat it while waiting right before the woship space thank God it wasn’t in a catholic church! I thought Viola, John’s wife was going to faint being an ex Poor Clare nun:nun1:!

The Articles were written to be the means by which Elizabeth moderated the extremes in her fractious Church; statecraft as religion.

Art. XXVIII refers to processions of the Sacrament, Art. XXII to purgatory, and relics. Remember that, except for ordinands of the Church of England (due to the erastian nature of the CoE), the Articles are not normative or binding on Anglicans, generally (one exception, AFAIK. The Anglican Church of Nigeria, in reaction to the drift of the Anglican Communion generally, has made the Articles normative).

There isn’t much about the 1979 prayer book in use in much of Episcopal Church that I find good, but the placing of the Articles in the section for historical documents is appropriate.

GKC

 

[ralphinal]

First, if he is a Christain, being so rude is vey un-Christ-like. To behave in such a way in a house of God shows utter disdain for you, your faith, and God himself. Even if he does not agree with you, that is the behavior of the south-bound end of a north-bound mule.

Personally, I would tell him that as he is such a donkey, and chooses to act like one, he is no longer welcome in my home or in my church. It would be acceptable for us to spend time together in a park or field, but even then, I doubt it.

 

[tundramom]

My next door neighbor who earned a masters degree in Philosophy just recently showed up one Sunday morning for mass in the Anglican church in which my wife, son and myself belong to. It kind of shocked me because he is pretty much a dyed in the wool Evangelical Christian of some kind. he seemed to being doing pretty well through the readings, Fr. Andrew’s sermon, the Nicene Creed and everything of course leading up to the Eucharist and its concecration. It was then that I was blown away by what he said. As our priest was consecrating the bread and wine, my neighbor leaned over and said to me in a low voice, “if he was using a Snickers bar and a Coke, it would be the same exact thing”. I told him afterward that I was greatly offended by this and we haven’t spoken since. What are some of your thoughts on this?

You know, my old Pastor at the Assembly of God said the same thing during a communion “blessing”. It was highly offensive to me then, and it is offensive when I read this again. It must be the new Evangelical thing to say that. The new “catch phrase” or something.

I find it repulsive. No doubt your friend has no idea how offensive what he said was to you. Try explaining why to him.

in Christ
Steph

 

[CHRISTINE77]

You know, my old Pastor at the Assembly of God said the same thing during a communion “blessing”. It was highly offensive to me then, and it is offensive when I read this again. It must be the new Evangelical thing to say that. The new “catch phrase” or something.

I find it repulsive. No doubt your friend has no idea how offensive what he said was to you. Try explaining why to him.

in Christ
Steph

I wonder what sort of Evangelical church he belongs to? Because a lot of Evangelicals I know actually have communion, not every Sunday, but once a month. This guy sounds like he isn’t even a Christian. Are you sure he is Evangelical?

 

[Ran]

My next door neighbor who earned a masters degree in Philosophy just recently showed up one Sunday morning for mass in the Anglican church in which my wife, son and myself belong to. It kind of shocked me because he is pretty much a dyed in the wool Evangelical Christian of some kind. he seemed to being doing pretty well through the readings, Fr. Andrew’s sermon, the Nicene Creed and everything of course leading up to the Eucharist and its concecration. It was then that I was blown away by what he said. As our priest was consecrating the bread and wine, my neighbor leaned over and said to me in a low voice, “if he was using a Snickers bar and a Coke, it would be the same exact thing”. I told him afterward that I was greatly offended by this and we haven’t spoken since. What are some of your thoughts on this?

That was a total lack of respect for you and for your religion. Not the type of person one normally want as a friend.

 

[CAS64]

Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, unsure if they subscribe to consubstantiation though. I am not sure if this is a good Anglican web-site or not but it does have the Anglican 39 articles on it. From the articles:

• Bold mine *

The Lords Supper is also considered a Sacrament in the Anglican faith:

anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html

I would say that an Anglican believe it is truly the Body and Blood of our Lord. I will let an Anglican clarify though as to what they believe.

God bless

Very accurate. Thank-you.

 

[CAS64]

unbelivable.

They are still humiliating, insulting, and hurting the Flesh of Christ like they did 2000 years ago! I can`t really say that the Angelican Eucharist is the Real Presense unless they are in some way tied to the Catholic Church like some non-Catholic denominations are.

Pray that this man repents it is YOUR duty. He is your brother afterall and you know his evil mindset. Try to offer him evidence from the Bible perspective and show him that throughout history the very first Christians before evengicals even existed believed in the Real Presense. Remember, you know what this person has done, you have a responsible to help him out.

may God bless both of you.

I consider the Eucharist, whether it be Roman or Anglican to be what the faithful believe and stake their souls upon. It is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. We Anglicans take the Eucharist (the central part and focus of our worship) very seriously and are equally offended as any Catholic would be to have someone of this education make a comment like this.