Define "Admonish the Sinner"

[LJN21]

I’m in a bit of a debate and need a definition for “Admonish the Sinner”. I looked the CCC and a number of other books and having trouble finding anything close.

I’ve always been under the opinion it was an obligation to say something when someone has done something blatantly sinful in front of you, like stealing form a store or calling you up to talk about their exploits, that sort of thing… Not things like, “I don’t think you take your spiritual life seriously enough.”

Thoughts?

Sources would be a HUGE help.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I went to the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia under “Spiritual Works of Mercy”, and under the specific “Admonish the sinner” they linked to this on 'fraternal correction". Here is the link:

newadvent.org/cathen/04394a.htm

Hope that helps.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I’m in a bit of a debate and need a definition for “Admonish the Sinner”. I looked the CCC and a number of other books and having trouble finding anything close.

That’s a good question.

In the old Baltimore Catechism (which was never a universally official Catechism), “admonish the sinner” was listed first in the Spiritual Acts of Mercy:

Q. 813. Which are the chief spiritual works of mercy?
A. The chief spiritual works of mercy are seven: To admonish the sinner, to instruct the ignorant, to counsel the doubtful, to comfort the sorrowful, to bear wrongs patiently, to forgive all injuries, and to pray for the living and the dead.

It’s in the CCC, but the wording is considerably watered-down:

2447 The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently.

“Instructing and advising” doesn’t have quite the same kick.

I’ve always been under the opinion it was an obligation to say something when someone has done something blatantly sinful in front of you…

It’s not an “obligation” in the sense that you are required to do it under penalty of sin. It’s an “act of mercy” which we ought to practice for the benefit of the other person. Sometimes we might feel that, in a particular situation, our (name removed by moderator)ut would not be helpful (or might even be counterproductive).

I do, however, believe this “act of mercy” is severely neglected in our society.

 

[1holycatholic]

That’s a good question.

In the old Baltimore Catechism (which was never a universally official Catechism), “admonish the sinner” was listed first in the Spiritual Acts of Mercy:
It’s in the CCC, but the wording is considerably watered-down:
“Instructing and advising” doesn’t have quite the same kick.

It’s not an “obligation” in the sense that you are required to do it under penalty of sin. It’s an “act of mercy” which we ought to practice for the benefit of the other person. Sometimes we might feel that, in a particular situation, our (name removed by moderator)ut would not be helpful (or might even be counterproductive).

I do, however, believe this “act of mercy” is severely neglected in our society.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
The seven spiritual works of mercy:

1. Counsel the doubtful.
2. Instruct the ignorant.
3. Admonish sinners.
4. Comfort the afflicted.
5. Forgive offenses.
6. Bear wrongs patiently.
7. Pray for the living and the dead.

 

[quasimodo]

Admonish the sinner - correct advise and instruct
Admonish with prejudice - take a brick and smack them in the head
Admonish with extreme prejudice - burn at the stake (or stake through the heart, admonishers call)

 

[nahbios]

I thought I’d ask my question in here rather than make a new thread (mods: if I’ve done wrong, please accept my apologies and do let me know). Does the question below refer to a failure to ‘admonish the sinner’?

Have I refused to remind someone of the danger of his state when I knew that that person had committed a mortal sin and that my warning alone would probably awaken repentance?

I found the wording [a href=“http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=3635&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=753266”]here[/a].

Gracias!

 

[thistle]

I would assume that “admonish the sinner” applies to Catholics as non-Catholic Christians and other non-Catholics would not care about anything you might say to them with regards to a sin!

 

[1holycatholic]

I would assume that “admonish the sinner” applies to Catholics as non-Catholic Christians and other non-Catholics would not care about anything you might say to them with regards to a sin!

Admonish the sinner applies to sinners.

 

[pnewton]

I think the key word is *fraternal *correction. The very nature of this means that we are not in a position to admonish everyone who sins all the time. This is not hellfire preaching, but rather the ability to speak with fortitude when those we know have fallen into sin.

I note that there are many that use this act of mercy as an excuse to rail about sin that they are in no way tempted by while avoiding areas of sin common to them. We must have the character to speak frankly and courageously while avoiding hypocricy.

 

[nahbios]

I think the key word is *fraternal *correction. The very nature of this means that we are not in a position to admonish everyone who sins all the time. This is not hellfire preaching, but rather the ability to speak with fortitude when those we know have fallen into sin.

I note that there are many that use this act of mercy as an excuse to rail about sin that they are in no way tempted by while avoiding areas of sin common to them. We must have the character to speak frankly and courageously while avoiding hypocricy.

Thanks, pnewton.

 

[jochoa]

Does the question below refer to a failure to ‘admonish the sinner’?

Have I refused to remind someone of the danger of his state when I knew that that person had committed a mortal sin and that my warning alone would probably awaken repentance?

I think it is important to consider what constitutes righteous admonishment. Based on my understandings of Godly Punishments (CCC #1472) and Unconditional Patience and Kindness, it would only be a sin if all the following questions were true, and you still did not help the person.

1. Did you have Authority over the “sinner” or if not, was the “sinner” seeking your advice/understanding?
2. Does your interpretation of the Word accurately represent God and the Faith?
3. Will the admonishment be either advice in a Patient and Kind form or of Godly Punishment?

From your situation, it seems as though you are in the clear. In order to encourage the “sinner” to seek advice, I prefer the statements, “I am sorry for your troubles, and I have some ideas on how to improve your situation. If you would like to hear them, I would gladly share.”

 

[nahbios]

Does the question below refer to a failure to ‘admonish the sinner’?

I think it is important to consider what constitutes righteous admonishment. Based on my understandings of Godly Punishments (CCC #1472) and Unconditional Patience and Kindness, it would only be a sin if all the following questions were true, and you still did not help the person.

1. Did you have Authority over the “sinner” or if not, was the “sinner” seeking your advice/understanding?
2. Does your interpretation of the Word accurately represent God and the Faith?
3. Will the admonishment be either advice in a Patient and Kind form or of Godly Punishment?

From your situation, it seems as though you are in the clear. In order to encourage the “sinner” to seek advice, I prefer the statements, “I am sorry for your troubles, and I have some ideas on how to improve your situation. If you would like to hear them, I would gladly share.”

That’s a good explanation, Jochoa: thank you. One thing that I’m just a bit unclear about is something in the third point on your list: when you talk about admonishing with reference to Godly punishment, do you mean that one should remind the other person of God’s displeasure with what’s been/being done? (That is, of course, besides patient and kind admonishment.) Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

In any case, I presume a talk on death, judgement, heaven, and hell isn’t suitable coming from a layperson… I like your suggested approach.

BTW: I neglected to thank thistle and 1holycatholic for their respective contributions - my apologies and thank you!

 

[1holycatholic]

Does the question below refer to a failure to ‘admonish the sinner’?

I think it is important to consider what constitutes righteous admonishment. Based on my understandings of Godly Punishments (CCC #1472) and Unconditional Patience and Kindness, it would only be a sin if all the following questions were true, and you still did not help the person.

1. Did you have Authority over the “sinner” or if not, was the “sinner” seeking your advice/understanding?
2. Does your interpretation of the Word accurately represent God and the Faith?
3. Will the admonishment be either advice in a Patient and Kind form or of Godly Punishment?

From your situation, it seems as though you are in the clear. In order to encourage the “sinner” to seek advice, I prefer the statements, “I am sorry for your troubles, and I have some ideas on how to improve your situation. If you would like to hear them, I would gladly share.”

I don’t understand your reference to CCC #1472.

 

[jochoa]

First, I apologize for my reference to (CCC #1472) and use of Godly “Punishment.” I was considering that some may associate admonishment with punishment, as stated in an earlier post - “admonish with prejudice or extreme prejudice.” I also confused “punishment” for “manner.”

I would also like to update my understanding of the concepts regarding this thread.

“I’ve always been under the opinion it was an obligation to say something when someone has done something blatantly sinful in front of you, like stealing form a store or calling you up to talk about their exploits, that sort of thing… Not things like, “I don’t think you take your spiritual life seriously enough.”

First, I urge you to take great caution and consideration about what to do in this situation because there are Citizenship duties and there are Christian duties, and they can easily be confused.
Though I am not certain of the Law of the Land, as a citizen of the Land there is definitely somewhat of an obligation to say something when someone has done something blatantly criminal.
On the other hand, the same blatant crime may be committed, but both the determination of sinfulness and fitting admonishment are very difficult to be accurate, righteous, and effective.
Without further consideration, in order to attempt to peacefully meld citizenship and Christianity, I would recommend you to take greater care in either whom you associate with or what you associate about.

Regarding the determination of Sinfulness
A sin is the willful disobedience of God’s Word.
In a single wrongdoing or criminal act, there are several thoughts/behaviors that are not of patience and kindness. The key to determining sinfulness lies deep in the person’s mind*, which is why (James 4:11-12 ESV) is BEST.
*There are three considerations to determine sinfulness: 1. How well/accurate does the “sinner” understand God’s Word? 2. How well does the “sinner” understand how to do God’s Word? 3. Did the “sinner” willfully disobey their understanding & know how of God’s Word?

Regarding the Righteousness and Effectiveness of Admonishment
The only time there is an obligation to admonish the sinner is if all the following progressive questions were true:

1. Do you have Authority over the “sinner” or if not, is the “sinner” seeking your advice/understanding? If so, the just opportunity to admonish is open. However, this does not mean you should.
2. Does your interpretation and practice of the Word accurately represent God and the Faith? If so, you are now at a level of righteous admonishment. And though you most likely will not weaken the sinner’s faith, consider that you may not strengthen it any either.
3. Can you fittingly* admonish in a Godly(patient and kind) manner? If so, you are now at the level of effective, righteous, and Godly admonishment!
   *Determine where exactly the “sinner” is having difficulty applying God’s Word. This could range from determining which aspect of His Word is not properly understood to misunderstanding of the aspect of His Word to lack of understanding how to do His Word.

Thank you all very much for your considerations and thoughts! You have helped me grow in faith! Please share your thoughts, considerations, and especially critiques.

 

[nahbios]

Ah…so admonishing in a Godly manner is admonishing in a patient and kind manner! I really should have realised that!

Thank you for the clarifications, Jochoa - my understanding has improved and I’m certainly glad that you’ve found the discussion spiritually edifying too. Now, I must definitely start practicing that way of offering of good advice you provided… I just need to remember and act quickly (but prudently) when someone does or is tempted to do something bad. Let’s hope I use the Holy Spirit’s Gift of Fortitude well!

 

[jochoa]

Ah…so admonishing in a Godly manner is admonishing in a patient and kind manner! I really should have realised that!

Thank you for the clarifications, Jochoa - my understanding has improved and I’m certainly glad that you’ve found the discussion spiritually edifying too. Now, I must definitely start practicing that way of offering of good advice you provided… I just need to remember and act quickly (but prudently) when someone does or is tempted to do something bad. Let’s hope I use the Holy Spirit’s Gift of Fortitude well!

Thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! If you change “Jochoa” to “Catholicism” I could ditto your words!

 

[nahbios]

Thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts! If you change “Jochoa” to “Catholicism” I could ditto your words!

Indeed, where would we be without God’s Church? All the same, thank you for passing on those valuable insights.

 

[LJF777]

Are people allowed to admonish you if they are in mortal sin or should one be in a state of grace to admonish a sinner?

 

[jochoa]

Are people allowed to admonish you if they are in mortal sin?
To help answer your question, please answer the following questions:
Are you judging people? If so, perhaps you should work on defining patience in yourself further. One aspect of patience is the lack of judgment in your thoughts. For if you judge others, you are not a doer of the law.
Do the “mortal sinners” have authority over you? If so, then they may admonish you. Although, most likely the admonishing will be ineffective.
If not, did you request advice from them? If so, then they may admonish you.
Are they abiding by laws of the land when admonishing you? If so, then yes. If their idea of admonishment involves physical or emotional abuse, perhaps you should consult help from a priest.

Should one be in a state of grace to admonish a sinner?
It is better to be in a state of grace when admonishing, for it will likely be more effective.

 

[Peter_Devine]

The comment has been made but sadly not many Catholics remember what is taught by our one true church when we are confronted by sin in our friends, relations and in all the means of communication in to-days world. The seven Spiritual works of Mercy have been quoted but the Catechism of the Catholic Church also teaches that we can share the guilt of another’s sin in nine ways.

1. By council.
2. By command.
3. By consent.
4. By provocation.
5. By praise or flattery.
6. By concealment.
7. By being a partner to the sin.
8. BY SILENCE.
9. By defending the ill done.

It is number eight: By saying nothing, that is at the crux of this debate. This is a command by the Catholic Church and not a suggestion that we can take or leave.
We were all reminded of this command when the Epistle read at the mass celebrating the Memorial Mass of St. John Vianney on 4th August each year which is taken from Ezekiel.

In the Epistle from Ezekiel 3:16-31, we are told by Almighty God that if we fail to inform a sinner of his wrongdoings we will be condemned along with the sinner. If we do comply and instruct the sinner and make them aware of their offence and they take no notice, then he will be condemned and we will be saved.
If we fail to instruct the sinner, we will suffer condemnation also.
There are other passages in Scripture that reiterates this teaching of the Church.
It is a great gift and a privilege granted by the Almighty that we as members of the one true faith beleive in the same teaching the world over.
Sadly, how many politicians here in the UK and in the USA and CINO’s (Catholics in name only) have failed to act on this command, to admonnish the sinner and will stand naked at the final tribunal and will be condemmed to eternal punishment for thier lack of charity toward their brothers and sisters while on earth.
One final comment, be prepaired to be very unpopular and be in turn be castigated by a great part of mankind to-day when acting on the Almighty’s command.

God bless you all in the USA.

Peter Devine.
Co. Durham.
England.