Define "good".

[JDaniel]

But there are some things that are arguably good for me that I don’t seek or desire. For instance, discipline is good for me, but I don’t desire it because it can be painful.

WF:

Well, I’m not sure about your analogy, but, certainly surgery can be both painful and good.

“For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant” (Heb 12:11).

Discipline comes from the Latin “disciplina” which means “to make a disciple of.” I not at all sure why it must be painful.

Nevertheless, a person seeks a surgical operation to remove a cancer, for example. The surgery is just the means, it is not the end. The end is to prolong life and make it more, shall we say, enjoyable. So, which one is sought: the painful surgery, or the extended life?

God bless,
jd

 

[JRKH]

Discipline comes from the Latin “disciplina” which means “to make a disciple of.” I not at all sure why it must be painful.

I think a clarification of terminology is in order. "Must be painful"is probably not the best choice of words. Rather it might be better to say that the discipline of discipleship has pain attached to it as an inherent part of the process.
Using the surgery analogy you are quite right that one does not have surgery for the pain, and where possible, steps are taken to mitigate the pain. Yet for all of that, everyone knows and accepts that pain - physical and even emotional discomfort - is part and parcel of the process.
So - it is best to recognize first the goal of heaven, and then recognize as a part of the process that pain will be involved.

Nevertheless, a person seeks a surgical operation to remove a cancer, for example. The surgery is just the means, it is not the end. The end is to prolong life and make it more, shall we say, enjoyable. So, which one is sought: the painful surgery, or the extended life?

God bless,
jd

Your analysis is quite correct and one that needs to be clearly understood in the Christian context.
The problem that some fall into is making the pain the goal…Many saints warn against this.
The goal of growing closer to God and to end in eternal life with Him in heaven must be always paramount. Discipline, even painful discipline (whether emotional or physical pain) must be subjugated to that goal.

Peace
James

 

[Linusthe2nd]

How would you define “good”?

newadvent.org/cathen/06636b.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/06640a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/06642a.htm

So there is ontological good - a thing is good in so far as it exists

There is moral good

There is infinite Good, which is God

There is finite good, which is everything outside of God

 

[JDaniel]

I think a clarification of terminology is in order. "Must be painful"is probably not the best choice of words. Rather it might be better to say that the discipline of discipleship has pain attached to it as an inherent part of the process.
Using the surgery analogy you are quite right that one does not have surgery for the pain, and where possible, steps are taken to mitigate the pain. Yet for all of that, everyone knows and accepts that pain - physical and even emotional discomfort - is part and parcel of the process.
So - it is best to recognize first the goal of heaven, and then recognize as a part of the process that pain will be involved.

Your analysis is quite correct and one that needs to be clearly understood in the Christian context.
The problem that some fall into is making the pain the goal…Many saints warn against this.
The goal of growing closer to God and to end in eternal life with Him in heaven must be always paramount. Discipline, even painful discipline (whether emotional or physical pain) must be subjugated to that goal.

Peace
James

James:

I concur.

God bless,
jd