define spirital diversity

[theweeper]

my pastor posted this on his blog i’d love to hear your thoughts
Spiritual Diversity
I have been doing a teaching series on “What We Believe” at MCC over that past four weeks. This kind of series is always hard for an independent non-denominational leader. I don’t the luxury or difficulty in saying what my “group” says I ought to say. Our type of congregations try hard to do their theology in real time and in the context of community.

Community among believers has always been complicated; just look at Acts 15 if you don’t think so! The issues of salvation and following Christ daily have always been caught up in culture, time and space. The same is true with us today living right here in Terre Haute Indiana. What one member of our community believes is constantly connected with what others believe. Sometimes those are pretty universal and ordinary; but at times it can get complicated and quite touchy.

I always use the examples of baptism, communion, eternal security and the gifts of the Holy Spirit as examples of those touchy kinds of beliefs. I historically like the challenge of trying hard to understand what is essential and what is not in regard to these beliefs. It is a challenge, it is not always a slam dunk.

Can Jesus remain the core of these issues? That is what is essential. Some times people equate Jesus with doctrine and that can be a huge mistake. He is not just a doctrine or a teaching! That would be to make him into what the Pharisees and others of the Jewish community tried to do. Jesus is a living person who interacts with us regularly in time and space, yes in scripture but also in life. I know that is a little scary for some believers, but none the less true. Look at Hebrews 4:12 and see it beyond scripture.

Now, how do we as a community relate to the “tertiary” issues of the faith such as speaking in tongues and the other miraculous sign gifts? I would hope we can take the same position as the Southern Baptist Mission Board and try hard to see some things as not necessary to separate us. Should any means of prayer divide believers? I don’t think so! Yes, we may have our preferences, even those things we believe strongly, but not to such a degree we refuse to fellowship with each other!

I have lived the “fear” of those “weird” people who spoke in tongues! I have even been misinformed about the priority of such things. Honestly, wasn’t that the core of what the Apostle Paul was battling in Corinth? That battle hasn’t changed much at all. Just because I don’t speak in tongues does not make it wrong for someone else to do so.

The real error in dealing with non-normative miraculous spiritual gifts is the personal experience weight of evaluating them. If “I don’t” or I can’t" then no one should! How prideful! How narrowing can you be in the body of Christ! The whole point of Paul’s teaching was “some.”

It is the “some” that makes us strong! We are a unique and diverse body, not a body of all who do certain things. This is the challenge of denominationalism and the comfort in such things. When we all believe the same thing there is comfort, but I wonder if there is power! I wonder if there is true equipment! I do believe it is disfiguring to what the body of Christ is to look like!

It is an honorable discomfort to be a member of a group of people who work hard at what is essential and allow for diverse beliefs in spiritual gifts. It is so hard in our culture to believe and live in a way that acknowledges the supernatural. But necessary. I challenge believers to believe and to live in ways that make power and spiritual encounter a regular part of their lives.

As Paul said, “He is able!” And as I would say, we are not! Never lose sight of those two facts of scripture and life

 

[theweeper]

this was my response:
dont give up on the blogging. i enjoy reading it. i get what your saying about the the church having diversity in unity (sounds like the trinity a little)but can there really be doctrinal diversity?
you said:
Jesus is a living person who interacts with us regularly in time and space, yes in scripture but also in life. I know that is a little scary for some believers, but none the less true. Look at Hebrews 4:12 and see it beyond scripture.

see beyond the scriptures? that’s different. could be dangerous?

Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.

the Utterance is alive and among us in His church. if the Word is resounds in us then we must be united in teaching and doctrine for the Word or Christ can’t contradict Himself. if something was true before it’s true now and true for all christians. well this is getting too long

 

[grandfather]

my pastor posted this on his blog i’d love to hear your thoughts
Spiritual Diversity
I have been doing a teaching series on “What We Believe” at MCC over that past four weeks. This kind of series is always hard for an independent non-denominational leader.

Why is it hard to define what one believes? We ought to know. There has to be some doctrinal statement or creed which sums it up. It is only hard or difficult if one’s belief is changing, evolving, reforming as we go and we are not sure of what it is from one time to another. Nothing should be simpler than stating what you believe. The Apostles Creed summarizes nicely. Truth does not change and if your doctrinal beliefs change you either did not know truth yesterday or now.

Our type of congregations try hard to do their theology in real time and in the context of community.

What does that mean? Does it mean the things you believe change or are they revealed by God and known as absolute, yesterday, today and tomorrow?

Community among believers has always been complicated; just look at Acts 15 if you don’t think so!

Does he mean communion, rather than community. Either way the Latin roots mean with union, or in union (unity). We are made one by the Spirit and in the unity of mind, unity in that which we believe. We either hold the same beliefs and do not contradict one another, or we lack unity. Either there is a lot of doctrinally settled matter, that is truths that are known that we do not have to keep arguing over or debating, so we can live and move forward in unity, as we are commanded to do by Christ, or nothing is ever settled.

I always use the examples of baptism, communion, eternal security and the gifts of the Holy Spirit as examples of those touchy kinds of beliefs. I historically like the challenge of trying hard to understand what is essential and what is not in regard to these beliefs. It is a challenge, it is not always a slam dunk.

Touchy? Baptism and Communion? Good grief!
Does he mean he uses history, what past Christians taught and believed about these things? Or, does he mean his personal history of trying to understand?

Some times people equate Jesus with doctrine and that can be a huge mistake. He is not just a doctrine or a teaching!

Sure, but that does not mean that doctrine is not important. It is essential to unity and salvation. Jesus came and taught. What did He teach? He taught truths we need to know to be saved. This is doctrine. The reason some people downplay it is they can’t figure it out so they give up. It is a surrender that says we will never figure out what is true so why try? Let’s just embrace diversity of belief, everyone defining their own truth. Where is that in scripture?

It is the “some” that makes us strong! We are a unique and diverse body, not a body of all who do certain things. This is the challenge of denominationalism and the comfort in such things.

Denominationalism is evil. It is division, disunity or disunion rather than community or communion. It is a fracturing of the Church, the Body of Christ into thousands of pieces all disputing what is truth, contradicting one another. It is direct disobedience to scripture and Christ who commands His followers to be one, and to Paul who commanded that we be of one mind. Jesus said our unity would be how the world would know that He sent us.

When we all believe the same thing there is comfort, but I wonder if there is power!

Surely there are both. What is there to wonder? I can’t even believe a Christian who looks at scripture at all would say such a thing. We either have unity or division. United we stand, divided we what? You can try to tell yourself you can have unity and diversity in belief, but it is an oxymoron, a way to comfort yourself that it is ok to be divided.

I wonder if there is true equipment! I do believe it is disfiguring to what the body of Christ is to look like!

???

 

[theweeper]

i’m sure he uses historical christianity to try and define what is essental to salvation. faith by the least common denominater.

 

[grandfather]

i’m sure he uses historical christianity to try and define what is essental to salvation. faith by the least common denominater.

If we are struggling to figure out what we believe as a body, then we do not know what we believe as a body. We are a group of individuals trying to define for ourselves first and then together what is true about spiritual matters. We need to know truth and act on it. Jesus did not come here to leave us confused and forever arguing among ourselves on what He meant, but to show us the clear way to the Father. Scripture says that He established a Church and gave her authority to teach the nations, and as the guardian of the deposit of faith (binding in heaven what the Church binds on earth). Without the Church we are reduced to ever dividing denominations all claiming scripture is their authority and struggling to agree on matters of faith. This is historically proven. Scripture does not tell us to be divided. It tells us to be one. It does not tell us it is to be used by individuals it to be their tool to determine truth for themselves.