Defining Catholic

[DaSoleil14]

I guess my question centers on whether or not there’s a standard by which it can be determined if someone can legitimately be referred to or refer to themselves as Catholic. I often read/hear criticism of the so-called “cultural Catholics.” Can someone call themselves/be referred to as Catholic if, for example, they struggle with the church’s teachings on same-sex marriage? Or if they outright reject a particular teaching?

 

[Polyphony]

Well, to be honest, I think it would make more sense for such a person to take a sincere, objective look at whether or not they are in a state of grace.

A lot of people have intellectual difficulties with certain concepts, and that’s fine. I hope they try to sort things out and retain a sense of wanting to please Jesus and to be obedient to His Church.

But there may also simply be a sinful resistance to certain Church teachings. If someone is obstinate in denying a particular dogma, yes, there’s a very good chance that they’re objectively committing a mortal sin.

As such, they could even call themselves a Bishop, let alone a Catholic, but it won’t avail them much, because they won’t be in the peace of God.

As Catholics, we have to allow the Church to be the Church, and allow ourselves to be her flock. That’s not easy in today’s age. We all want to be super-geniuses who know everything and who have everything figured out.

But I think that some people, out of pride, can jump the gun. They can go from having a difficulty to simply writing everything off. We need to make sure we’re not that type of person. We also need to make sure that certain difficulties aren’t really excuses.

Having said all of that, there’s a ton of resources for people who have difficulties, especially here at Catholic Answers. I’m sure most people who have problems simply have problems, and they are sincere in the fact that they have problems. The good news is that there’s answers, and the even better news is that they can make a lot of sense.

 

[felsguy]

I would suggest that technically a Catholic is one who has been baptized into the Catholic Church or received into the Church after having undergone a valid but non-Catholic baptism. Beyond that one can add all sorts of qualifiers or labels: cultural, cafeteria, good, bad, lukewarm, practicing, fallen away, orthodox, heterodox, the list goes on and on.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

A person is a Catholic if the Catholic Church for whatever reason of its own made them a Catholic.

Everyone struggles with some part of belief or faith. The free option is to take the initiative to find out more, with or without help (I’ve been blessed to have help).

But because the Church scarcely catechises children after baptism nor adults before or after baptism, very large numbers struggle with lots of major things.

 

[anon98328916]

I guess my question centers on whether or not there’s a standard by which it can be determined if someone can legitimately be referred to or refer to themselves as Catholic. I often read/hear criticism of the so-called “cultural Catholics.” Can someone call themselves/be referred to as Catholic if, for example, they struggle with the church’s teachings on same-sex marriage? Or if they outright reject a particular teaching?

Isn’t the whole point in following all of Christ’s teachings and not picking and choosing what we like/don’t like? I think to struggle with certain teachings is not fully following Jesus.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Isn’t the whole point in following all of Christ’s teachings and not picking and choosing what we like/don’t like? I think to struggle with certain teachings is not fully following Jesus.

Being a follower of Jesus can mean many things, don’t you think? Daniel Berrigan, may he rest in peace, followed Jesus through his priesthood and his social activism.

A very different follower of Jesus would be someone like Julian of Norwich, one of my personal favorites. She was an anchorite and did not interact with her outside world at all, yet she is one of our holy saints.

I cannot believe that every single Christian can follow every single command of Christ. There are too many of them and they are too radically different. We HAVE to pick and choose.

 

[Beryllos]

The church is full of sinners. I am not sure how you could even begin to sort us out.

Looking at it another way, anyone who participates in the church, however imperfectly, has taken some steps in the right direction. In time, with God’s help and perhaps ours, they may continue to grow in faith and virtue.

 

[Memaw]

A person is a Catholic if the Catholic Church for whatever reason of its own made them a Catholic.

Everyone struggles with some part of belief or faith. The free option is to take the initiative to find out more, with or without help (I’ve been blessed to have help).

But because the Church scarcely catechises children after baptism nor adults before or after baptism, very large numbers struggle with lots of major things.

It’s not that the Church doesn’t catechize after Baptism but that parents or adults don’t follow thru with their faith. We blame everything on the Church when it’s really our responsibility to know our Faith and teach it to our Children with the help of our Church. Many fallen away Catholics will tell you they never practiced the faith at home except maybe to go to Church on Sunday. You can not leave it all up to the school or the CCD program. They can only do so much. To know, love and live our faith at home is actually more important than anything else. I think we as parents have failed that miserably and now our children are suffering because of it. They don’t have the strong faith to resist the modern evils. During the Holy Year of MERCY, we should do all we can to help each other. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Polyphony]

I cannot believe that every single Christian can follow every single command of Christ. There are too many of them and they are too radically different. We HAVE to pick and choose.

I appreciate this, and it’s kind of the reason that various orders happen to exist. Some emulate the prayer-life of Jesus, others emulate His preaching.

But the poster was speaking of Catholics, and they were speaking of certain Catholics who happen to follow a liberal mindset of arbitrarily picking-and-choosing which dogmas they accept and which they don’t, usually as motivated by societal politics, and usually deeply involved with the sexual act.

I’m not so sure your comments are really addressing that.

 

[anon98328916]

Being a follower of Jesus can mean many things, don’t you think? Daniel Berrigan, may he rest in peace, followed Jesus through his priesthood and his social activism.

A very different follower of Jesus would be someone like Julian of Norwich, one of my personal favorites. She was an anchorite and did not interact with her outside world at all, yet she is one of our holy saints.

I cannot believe that every single Christian can follow every single command of Christ. There are too many of them and they are too radically different. We HAVE to pick and choose.

I’m sorry but I disagree, I don’t think picking and choosing what we want to agree and disagree with is what Jesus wants of us. For example if a Catholic follows all Jesus’ teaching except they are in support of same sex marriage or a person is pro-choice who is this pleasing to God?
The teachings are there for us to follow.

 

[baliano]

Being a follower of Jesus can mean many things, don’t you think? Daniel Berrigan, may he rest in peace, followed Jesus through his priesthood and his social activism.

A very different follower of Jesus would be someone like Julian of Norwich, one of my personal favorites. She was an anchorite and did not interact with her outside world at all, yet she is one of our holy saints.

I cannot believe that every single Christian can follow every single command of Christ. There are too many of them and they are too radically different. We HAVE to pick and choose.

As I recall, there are 10 unambiguous commandments. Yes, they require reinforcement and clarification in some cases, Adultery comes to mind with the recent communion for divorced/remarried discussion, but they are certainly not so complicated as to require “picking and choosing”.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

As I recall, there are 10 unambiguous commandments. Yes, they require reinforcement and clarification in some cases, Adultery comes to mind with the recent communion for divorced/remarried discussion, but they are certainly not so complicated as to require “picking and choosing”.

I am not quite so sure about your statement. First of all, the commandments are not in the Gospels; they are the Jewish commandments given to Moses. And there are 613 of them in total.

But if you want to go by the 10, there are different versions, so which ones would you follow? Probably the RC ones. And do you really think that we are able to follow them?

No idol worshipping. A whole lot of people think the RCC worships idols, given that the Jews understood it to mean no images of holy things.

Keeping the Sabbath holy. On Saturday the 7th day, ‘you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.’ Unless you are Seventh Day Adventist, Saturday is a regular day. Christians picked and chose a new day to worship, but we don’t keep it as Sabbath with no work. So we are discarding THAT commandment.

Committing adultery. You covered that one.

No stealing. That’s a pretty common action.

No bearing false witness. That is a common thing we ignore.

No coveting. That is also a common thing we ignore.

What IS in the Gospels is: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

So, I guess my point is, we have hundreds of commandments to follow, and they are all good things, but basically impossible to follow. But Jesus broke it down to Love God and love your neighbor.

That’s the bottom line.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I’m sorry but I disagree, I don’t think picking and choosing what we want to agree and disagree with is what Jesus wants of us. For example if a Catholic follows all Jesus’ teaching except they are in support of same sex marriage or a person is pro-choice who is this pleasing to God?
The teachings are there for us to follow.

I understand this is a common concern of people in the RCC. You aren’t supposed to pick and choose. You have to follow ALL the teachings of Jesus.

So what do we do with the hard teachings of Jesus? Most of us don’t come anywhere near to being able to follow them.

"You cannot serve both God and money.” Matthew 6:24

“Sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor.” Matthew 19:21

" Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matthew

“None of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions” (Luke 14:33).

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your whole body than for your whole body to go into hell. Matt. 5: 29, 30

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matthew 5:28

We mostly explain these teachings away as figurative, or we brush them aside. Just like we have to choose to follow or not to follow other teachings. It’s how we are as a Church. I don’t think we can pretend anything else.