No, I do not suggest a resurrection, only that Jesus took their souls from paradise to Heaven, He did not raised their bodies, that will come at the Second Coming. You are correct in what you said other than assuming that I meant that the OT saints were raised.
Mailman, you have a few good points.
Paradise is simply a garden which is enclosed; the word is not of Greek origin.
The garden in Eden is “paradise” – but that was not heaven.
When Adam and Eve were exiled, cherubim with firey sword were placed to block the way for man into paradise, lest they eat of the “tree of life”.
The Cherubim are the war horses of God’s chariot – in all cases they carry the fire with them – and there is quite a bit more to it, but I can’t go into it now – BUT BUT BUT – God rides, even in heaven, upon cherubim who can carry his throne.
Therefore, at least one paradise (in symbolic vision) is BELOW God’s throne, relatively speaking.
The cross, or the wood, and the tree, are all very much the same thing, The identity of most of the torture devices is simply the same way one would describe a tree – and the very tree Jesus hung on at Calvary clearly qualifies as a tree, if not “the” tree of life. Calvary is also in/next to a garden, for nearby is the unused tomb which Jesus would be laid in, and which we know was in a garden.
Luke 23:43 και ε-ιπ-εν αυτ-ω αμην σοι λεγ-ω σημερ-ον μετ ε-μου εση εν τω παραδεισω
And said to-him, AMEN, to-you I-am-saying(continuously) this-day(N,A) with me(g) you-will-be in the(D) Paradise(D).
There is no double “the” structure to show the extra emphasis “very”, or “I Mean the”, so Jesus is simply singling out a definite (same) garden – possibly one which is walled in, or that belongs to a rich man.
Meta can mean “with” or “after” – from my notes it typically means “with” or “among”, when followed by a “genitive” word, (that is true) so the correct translation is “with me”
“This day” occurs before the clause “with me”, so it does not support well the reading “you will be with-me this day in paradise”, but ignoring the supposed Jewish idiom stuff – the word can be subject or object of the previous phrase in Greek – giving;
AMEN, to-you I-am-saying-continuously this-day(,) you-will-be with me in the paradise.
AMEN, this-day I-am-saying-continuously, you-will-be with me in the paradise.
The present tense, “I-am-saying”, also implies a hitch – eg:the promise could fail, if Jesus stops saying it. That which elicits Jesus’ promise is the thief saying “remember me when you come into your kingdom”; Therefore, if there is any condition – it is that the thief keep that attitutde (faith) until his death “that-day.”
So Mailman has this point basically correct, the Greek does not guarantee when the thief will be in paradise; but it is at (least) a future time, and nothing is said of the present.
The thief could be in “paradise” right there on the cross, if Calvary is part of a garden (It has trees, and the tree of life). The thief may be laid in a tomb which is in a garden nearby just as Jesus was, the bodies all were taken down to prevent profaning the sabbath after their legs were broken – so the thieves had to be moved just as quickly as Jesus was. (John 19:31) Though the scriptures are not concerned with the destination of the individual thieves.
Or the promise may refer to a future time after the resurrection;
…or any combination of the above.
Also, don’t forget, many of the tombs were opened when Jesus died. There were resurrections which David did not share in immediately.
Matthew 27:52-53
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints … arose,
and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into …
Copland3 – How did you come to the conclusion that “paradise” could be in the limbo of the dead, or “Abraham’s” bosom? He was buried in a cave with all the patriarchs with the exception of sinful Rachel, the idol thief. I don’t recall his tomb being a garden of any kind … did I miss something?
