Defining what being a racist is

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SMHW said:
I would suggest that the word “racist” is not appropriate. I do not think Trump cares one iota what “race” these women belong to.

I think a lot of people use the word “racist” when perhaps they really mean something closer to “xenophobic”. Xenophobes don’t like people who are foreigners and/or have “foreign ideas”, even if they come from the same racial background as themselves.

I do not think Trump cares much about race. But he does care about the cultural background of these women because he considers their ideas to be incompatible with his American ideals.
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I think he has an ingrained prejudice against (a) people who aren’t his children and (b) people who haven’t been flattering him lately. As for what basis he uses to insult those he is upset with, I think he chooses the thing that will either humiliate them the most or else upset them the most. (He also goes for showing off for his audience of the moment.)

The things he says that he imagines are insulting or flattering never cease to floor me. If he’s not a racist because he’s a xenophobe, maybe he’s not a xenophobe because he’s insensitive to the point of being oblivious to any feelings but his own. That’s a bit beyond xenophobia.
 
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I made no claim on what Trump is. I’m not American. But seeing as he’s not here to defend himself, call him what you want. Does calling someone racist make you feel better?
 
AlmaRedemptorisMater said:
I made no claim on what Trump is. I’m not American. But seeing as he’s not here to defend himself, call him what you want. Does calling someone racist make you feel better?
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So…in whatever country you are from, you believe that it is pointless for members of the electorate or even for other public officials to take issue with inflamatory rhetoric? Really, what was your point?

I mean, if your only point is that it is far more appropriate to say, “He has an intolerable habit of making racist remarks” instead of resorting to the more personal “he is a racist,” I am willing to stand corrected. You are right, that is a better way to make the point, without a doubt.

Yes, it is better to define what is inappropriate behavior than to presume to define how to put labels on people.
 
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PetraG said:
“if everything is immoral, nothing is immoral,” implying that it must be the standards that are too strict
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implying that the standard is incoherent, not that they’re too strict. too strict implies a coherent standard.
 
My only point is if you feel he is racist, then likely nothing anyone else says will convince you or the OP otherwise. You’re entirely free to claim racism abounds in our world today. I hope proclaiming that makes you feel better.
 
BartholomewB said:
Not necessarily. Sometimes, yes. Not always.
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When has it not been? I’m curious to see the counter-examples I haven’t thought of. We are talking about a sitting President who is suggesting that fellow elected officials ought to “go back” to a foreign country when they were born in this country, but I don’t think it would de-rail the thread to give an example of when “go back to where you came from” isn’t racist or xenophobic when “where you came from” is obviously a foreign country.
 
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I agree.All this outrage is hollow.Trump as you said ,says what most are afraid to say because we are then virtue shamed by those who pretend to give a rat’s patooty
 
That’s easy. Examples. (a) When both people are white. For example, a German saying that to a white American in Germany.
(b)When both people are black. For example, a Nigerian saying that to a black American in Nigeria.
It’s a common response when someone living outside their own country starts whingeing about what’s wrong with the country where they are and telling people, “You ought to do it the way we do it back home in XYZ.”
 
Because Jesus said “render to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God”, the didn’t say “render to Caesar what is Caesar so that Caesar can render to God what is God”

I won’t get into heaven by having the Government perform the Gospel for me.

Although that is very convenient if I was lazy - “I’ll vote for big Government and let them help poor while I sit at home and watch Netflix, now I don’t have to do anything!”
 
PetraG said:
We are talking about a sitting President who is suggesting that fellow elected officials ought to “go back” to a foreign country when they were born in this country, but I don’t think it would de-rail the thread to give an example of when “go back to where you came from” isn’t racist
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He never mentioned race

If you’re suggesting that’s racist then you’re suggesting only one racial group comes here and doesn’t like it? I’d tread lightly with that one…
 
(a) not fully standing behind Mr. Trump and not fully standing behind this country are two totally separate things.
(b) we believe that objecting to injustice is the duty of a citizen. Should people who don’t like that we’re pro-life tell us to “go back to your own country”?
(c ) You are misinformed. He absolutely did say that elected officials–the women, specifically–who have progressive politics ought to “return” to foreign countries not communities:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly…

5:27 AM · Jul 14, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone
Jeanne_S said:
I agree.All this outrage is hollow.Trump as you said ,says what most are afraid to say because we are then virtue shamed by those who pretend to give a rat’s patooty
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Far fewer people are afraid to say they want to get rid of immigrants and their children since electing him.
(To hear a correction of one’s behavior and to counter virtue-shame by implying that anyone who makes such a correction is just a hypocrite? That’s a pretty old trick…)
 
How many illegals has NP welcomed into her mansion which btw has a fortress around it, She is just one among many. If you think for one second she cares about the people flooding our borders you’re are naive .The whole lot of them are hypocrites. Trump at least has the courage to speak his mind regardless of how it’s received.Where as most there on capital hill have their finger in the air. They don’t impress me.They shouldn’t impress any of us
 
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Aquinas11 said:
He never mentioned race

If you’re suggesting that’s racist then you’re suggesting only one racial group comes here and doesn’t like it? I’d tread lightly with that one…
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OK. Which progressive European nation was he referring to when he said, “countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all).” Was he refering to Italy (Pelosi)?

And hello, who is Donald J. Trump that he thinks he can tell elected members of Congress they are out of line for presuming to tell “the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run”?!?!
THEY WERE BORN HERE!!! THEY ARE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES AND SO ARE THEIR CONSTITUENTS!!
THEY ARE ELECTED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS!!! THAT IS WHAT CONGRESS DOES!!!

Mr. Trump, on the other hand, defends taking help from foreign governments to win elections. Who is it, really, who doesn’t think that the people of the United States and ONLY the people of the United States should be the ones in on our decision-making, again??
 
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
If you’re referring to the “go back where you came from”, I’m not seeing that as racist, and here’s why.

He didn’t walk up to four ladies of non-European descent who were just standing around on a street corner or a coffee shop, totally minding their own business and say “go back where you came from”. With no provocation whatsoever. That would be very rude and definitely racist overtones, like you’re not welcome here because of where you were born.

No.

These women, his political opponents, have been going on and on with their nonstop ranting and tone deaf and at least in the case of one of them was openly anti Semitic, and gave them a verbal comeback.
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What on Earth?

Racism is an affront to a person’s humanity and dignity. It is not conditional by even the smallest degree on a person’s qualities, character, innocence, guilt, charisma, likeability, or unlikeability.

Criminals, political opponents, prisoners, annoying neighbors, people that text while driving, or any other unlikable person you can think of is still a person and if you invoke their origins against them then it is still prejudiced. Moral laws don’t just apply to innocent or likeable people otherwise they aren’t moral laws at all. They are merely fashions.

Trump could have rebuked and disagreed with these members of Congress a thousand different ways and for a thousand different reasons, and yet he chose to say something racist. There is a reason Republican lawmakers are shying away from what happened because the president skipped over attacking these members of Congress for any merit-based reasons. It looks very bad and they know it.
 
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PetraG said:
As for what basis he uses to insult those he is upset with, I think he chooses the thing that will either humiliate them the most or else upset them the most. (He also goes for showing off for his audience of the moment.)
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I absolutely agree with this.
 
SMHW said:
I absolutely agree with this.
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I heard someone quip that his overall body of comments can only be taken as racist is you define racist remarks as those that are prejudiced against anyone who isn’t a blood relative of Donald Trump. As in, he has a prejudice against the whole rest of the human race, lol.
 
According to those on the left:
George W. Bush was Racist.
Mitt Romney was racist.
Nancy Pelosi is racist
Joe Biden is racist.
Pro-lifers are racists.
Throwing around this word is making it lose it’s meaning.
 
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