Definition of Modernism

[Cluny]

Well it’s perfectly clear then. Pope St. Pius X was one of them self-identified traditionalists that St Athanasius warned us about.

My point is that the term “modernism” gets used as a club to batter others.

I have frequently seen the term misused (taking St. Pius X’s use of it as the definition).

In the same way “fundamentalism” gets misused by many to refer to everything from Mormons to snake-handlers to other fringe cultists just barely within the pale of Christianity, if at all.

 

[palmas85]

This was a question that I really tried to answer. How does one recognize a modernist heresy? I read Pius X encyclical on modernism but still found it difficult to apply it. It is now 100 years later and the error must be still the same. I work with someone who attends SSPX masses and the charge of Modernism is applied often to those not connected to the SSPX.
I am not sure where I heard it but someone gave a definition for Modernism that brought all things together for me.

Modernism is denial of the supernatural

Any view,ideology,practice etc. can be examined through that lens.
stjulie

From the Catholic encyclopedia
A remodelling, a renewal according to the ideas of the twentieth century – such is the longing that possesses the modernists. “The avowed modernists”, says M. Loisy, “form a fairly definite group of thinking men united in the common desire to adapt Catholicism to the intellectual, moral and social needs of today” (op. cit., p. 13). “Our religious attitude”, as “Il programma dei modernisti” states (p. 5, note l), “is ruled by the single wish to be one with Christians and Catholics who live in harmony with the spirit of the age”. The spirit of this plan of reform may be summarized under the following heads:

** * A spirit of complete emancipation, tending to weaken ecclesiastical authority; the emancipation of science, which must traverse every field of investigation without fear of conflict with the Church; the emancipation of the State, which should never be hampered by religious authority; the emancipation of the private conscience whose inspirations must not be overridden by papal definitions or anathemas; the emancipation of the universal conscience, with which the Church should be ever in agreement;
* A spirit of movement and change, with an inclination to a sweeping form of evolution such as abhors anything fixed and stationary;
* A spirit of reconciliation among all men through the feelings of the heart. Many and varied also are the modernist dreams of an understanding between the different Christian religions, nay, even between religion and a species of atheism, and all on a basis of agreement that must be superior to mere doctrinal differences. **

Such are the fundamental tendencies. As such, they seek to explain, justify, and strengthen themselves in an error, to which therefore one might give the name of “essential” modernism.** What is this error? It is nothing less than the perversion of dogma.** Manifold are the degrees and shades of modernist doctrine on the question of our relations with God.** But no real modernist keeps the Catholic notions of dogma intact**. Are you doubtful as to whether a writer or a book is modernist in the formal sense of the word? Verify every statement about dogma; examine his treatment of its origin, its nature, its sense, its authority. You will know whether you are dealing with a veritable modernist or not, according to the way in which the Catholic conception of dogma is travestied or respected. Dogma and supernatural knowledge are correlative terms; one implies the other as the action implies its object.** In this way then we may define modernism as “the critique of our supernatural knowledge according to the false postulates of contemporary philosophy”.**

I think that by reading this you can pretty clearly see where the term modernist can be applied today. Yes it is still around, still ugly and still perverting the dogma and doctrines of the Church.

Hope this helps.

 

[Holly3278]

Well, here is what the dictionary says:

**4. ** often Modernism A Roman Catholic movement, officially condemned in 1907, that attempted to examine traditional belief according to contemporary philosophy, criticism, and historiography.

thefreedictionary.com/modernism

Here is a few other links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_(Roman_Catholicism)

newadvent.org/cathen/10415a.htm

scripturecatholic.com/tradissues_qa.html

 

[brigid12]

Originally posted by Palmas85
“The avowed modernists”, says M. Loisy, “form a fairly definite group of thinking men united in the common desire to adapt Catholicism to the intellectual, moral and social needs of today” (op. cit., p. 13).

:frighten: It’s absolutely everywhere!

 

[JaMc]

True Modernism, as defined by Pope St. Pius X is the “synthesis of all heresies.” The way I understand it, it is sort of a combination of moral relativism and Indifferentism, coupled with the idea that the Church needs to “change” its teachings to “move with the times,” a-la the old Mainline Protestants (ELCA Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episopalian). Thank God Pius X, and his successors up to Pius XII, cracked down on this heresy (even Popes John XXIII through Benedict XVI have spoken out against it, but they no longer have the anti-modernist Oath, and do not seem to be taking as strong a stance as they should have, IMHO). This is why the Catholic Church is the most socially conservative “mainstream” church - you’d have to look to the evangelical Protestants before you’ll find large, organized groups of other Christians standing up for morality (of course, we’re talking in society, not theology, where they’re completely out to lunch).

However, the term “modernism” has become a catch-all perjorative in Traditional circles, applied to anything said or done after Vatican II. There was mention a while back of “Godwin’s Law,” i.e., the longer a discussion gets, the higher the liklihood someone will be called a Nazi. I would like to add a corrolary of this: The longer a Traditional Catholic discussion gets, the higher the likelihood someone will be called a Modernist

 

[Rogerteder]

http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/mahoney.jpg

funny!!! Dont know if it is appropriate!!!

 

[Ockham]

There is certainly a need to find proper words to describe the differing liturgical and doctrinal philosophies in the Church. However, labels often get manipulated for the purpose of discrediting the opposing view. “Pro-Choice” is a very clever euphemism to describe murder that the abortionists came up with and use to describe themselves. We need to be careful in selecting words that clarify the distinctions without creating division and harm.

“Modernist” and “Traditionalist” seem to work well enough. A lady who sat on the liturgical committee at one of my previous parishes was always trying to get the priest to agree to things like liturgical dance. She also lead the folk choir and volunteered as a EMHC. I think it’s safe to describe someone like that as a modernist.

One mistake I see is using the terms “liberal” and “conservative” as they are too closely tied into partisan politics. Especially in American these days, the emotional investment many people make in their choice of poltical parties creates instant division and discord.

It would be a tragedy if another great schism occurred. As we’ve seen once such a split takes place it may never heal. However, if a certain segment of today’s Church is hell bent on things like liturgical dance, female ordination, married priests, etc, then perhaps it would be best for them to go off and play God on their own.

 

[gospel_life]

We need to be careful in selecting words that clarify the distinctions without creating division and harm.

“Modernist” and “Traditionalist” seem to work well enough.

So then your careful selection of words to avoid “creating division and harm” leads you to classifying people into Traditionalists and heretics? Anyone who doesn’t prefer the Latin mass–one of the “requirements” of “traditionalism”–is a heretic?

Ummm…ok… Thanks for clarifying the distinction. Can’t get much clearer than that.