Definition of terms

[lanman87]

As I’ve studied the Roman Catholic teachings I’ve come to realize that sometimes Catholics and Protestants use the same words but they have different meanings to a Protestant than they do a Catholic and vice versa. With that in mind, do you mind defining the following terms from a Catholic perspective?

Church

Salvation

Grace

Worship

Faith

Works

 

[Horton]

As I’ve studied the Roman Catholic teachings I’ve come to realize that sometimes Catholics and Protestants use the same words but they have different meanings to a Protestant than they do a Catholic and vice versa. With that in mind, do you mind defining the following terms from a Catholic perspective?

Church
The faithful of the whole world. This broad definition can be understood in various senses all derived from the Scriptures, notably as the community of believers, the kingdom of God, and the Mystical Body of Christ.
As the community of believers, the Church is the assembly (ekklesia) of all who believe in Jesus Christ; or the fellowship (koinonia) of all who are bound together by their common love for the Savior. As the kingdom (basileia), it is the fulfillment of the ancient prophecies about the reign of the Messiah. And as the Mystical Body it is the communion of all those made holy by the grace of Christ. He is their invisible head and they are his visible members. These include the faithful on earth, those in purgatory who are not yet fully purified, and the saints in heaven.
Since the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church has been defined as a union of human beings who are united by the profession of the same Christian faith, and by participation of and in the same sacraments under the direction of their lawful pastors, especially of the one representative of Christ on earth, the Bishop of Rome. Each element in this definition is meant to exclude all others from actual and vital membership in the Catholic Church, namely apostates and heretics who do not profess the same Christian faith, non-Christians who do not receive the same sacraments, and schismatics who are not submissive to the Church’s lawful pastors under the Bishop of Rome.
At the Second Vatican Council this concept of the Church was recognized as the objective reality that identifies the fullness of the Roman Catholic Church. But it was qualified subjectively so as to somehow include all who are baptized and profess their faith in Jesus Christ. They are the People of God, whom he has chosen to be his own and on whom he bestows the special graces of his providence. (Etym. Greek kyriakon, church; from kyriakos, belonging to the Lord.)

Salvation
Salvation is an ongoing process for Catholics. We don’t believe in the once saved, always saved (OSAS) theory. While we truly believe salvation is a great possibility, we have to continue to stay or return to a state of grace.

Grace
As the Church has come to explain the meaning of grace, it refers to something more than the gifts of nature, such as creation or the blessings of bodily health. Grace is the supernatural gift that God, of his free benevolence, bestows on rational creatures for their eternal salvation. The gifts of grace are essentially supernatural. They surpass the being, powers, and claims of created nature, namely sanctifying grace, the infused virtues, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and actual grace. They are the indispensable means necessary to reach the beatific vision. In a secondary sense, grace also includes such blessings as the miraculous gifts of prophecy or healing, or the preternatural gifts of freedom from concupiscence.

Worship
In religion, worship is given either to God, and then it is adoration, or to the angels and saints, and it is called veneration. Divine worship actually includes three principal acts, namely adoration (or the recognition of God’s infinite perfection), prayer or the asking for divine help, and sacrifice or the offering of something precious to God. Worship as veneration also has three principal forms, whereby the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity, asked to intercede before the divine Majesty, and imitated in their love and service of God. (Etym. Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth, worth +ship.)

Faith
The acceptance of the word of another, trusting that one knows what the other is saying and is honest in telling the truth. The basic motive of all faith is the authority (or right to be believed) of someone who is speaking. This authority is an adequate knowledge of what he or she is talking about, and integrity in not wanting to deceive. It is called divine faith when the one believed is God, and human faith when the persons believed are human beings. (Etym. Latin fides, belief; habit of faith; object of faith.)

Works
Works are our actions to show our faith, our love for God. Works do not “earn” us salvation. We do works to our ability, using out time, talents, and/or treasures, not for personal merit or accolades but for the glory of God.

The answers in blue are general, a couple are my own words, the others from this link
therealpresence.org/dictionary/dictaintro.htm

 

[PluniaZ]

Church - all Christians who are in communion with the Bishop of Rome

Salvation has three meanings (1) baptism, (2) the day by day process of conversion of the soul toward God and (3) after death, the Beatific Vision

Grace has two meanings (1) the prevenient grace whereby God calls all people to faith and repentance in Jesus Christ and (2) the sanctifying grace given only to those who are baptized and not in a state of mortal sin, that cooperates with them day by day to convert their soul toward God.

Worship can mean (1) latria or adoration - the supreme homage that is paid to God alone or (2) dulia or veneration - the lesser honor that is given to the saints and angels in Heaven.

Faith - belief in the teachings of the Church.

Works - all the thoughts, words and deeds of a human.

 

[lanman87]

This is fascinating. Many of my answers are different. I’m no theologian but I do have 45 years of Southern Baptist Sunday School and several Methodist Vacation Bible Schools under my belt.

Here are the definitions that I, as a protestant, would give to those terms

Church has several definitions depending on context.

• All who have placed their faith in Christ regardless of church membership, denomination and tradition they follow.
• A body of believers who share the same doctrine and practices. Such as the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church and so on
• A local community of believers that meets together for prayer, study, worship, support and encouragement.
• The building where the church meets

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.

Grace is the unmerited gift of God by which sinners are saved. It cannot be earned by human effort or works of righteousness. God gives the gift of grace to all who come to him in faith. His grace is greater than any of our shortcomings or lack of understanding or sinfulness.

Worship is the seeking to Glorify God through word, song, prayer, service, occupation, fellowship, marriages, family life, recreation, indeed-everything we do. Worship is to be directed toward God who exist in Three Persons. Idolatry is worshiping anything or anyone other than God.

**Faith ** is the response to the free gift of grace. It is expressed by belief, trust, repentance from sin, and confession that we are sinners who are separated from God and have no hope apart Christ. Genuine faith results in Salvation.

Works are a natural response to Saving Faith. Works is when a New Creature in Christ follows the guidance of the Scripture and the Holy Spirit to glorify God, serve other humans, and proclaim the Good News of Christ to a lost world. Any claim of faith that doesn’t produce works isn’t real faith. On the flip side it is possible for someone to attempt good works out of moral obligation, cultural influences, or religious teaching but good works apart from a saving faith does not result in salvation.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

This is fascinating. Many of my answers are different. I’m no theologian but I do have 45 years of Southern Baptist Sunday School and several Methodist Vacation Bible Schools under my belt.

Here are the definitions that I, as a protestant, would give to those terms

Church has several definitions depending on context.

• All who have placed their faith in Christ regardless of church membership, denomination and tradition they follow.
• A body of believers who share the same doctrine and practices. Such as the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church and so on
• A local community of believers that meets together for prayer, study, worship, support and encouragement.
• The building where the church meets

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.

Grace is the unmerited gift of God by which sinners are saved. It cannot be earned by human effort or works of righteousness. God gives the gift of grace to all who come to him in faith. His grace is greater than any of our shortcomings or lack of understanding or sinfulness.

Worship is the seeking to Glorify God through word, song, prayer, service, occupation, fellowship, marriages, family life, recreation, indeed-everything we do. Worship is to be directed toward God who exist in Three Persons. Idolatry is worshiping anything or anyone other than God.

**Faith ** is the response to the free gift of grace. It is expressed by belief, trust, repentance from sin, and confession that we are sinners who are separated from God and have no hope apart Christ. Genuine faith results in Salvation.

Works are a natural response to Saving Faith. Works is when a New Creature in Christ follows the guidance of the Scripture and the Holy Spirit to glorify God, serve other humans, and proclaim the Good News of Christ to a lost world. Any claim of faith that doesn’t produce works isn’t real faith. On the flip side it is possible for someone to attempt good works out of moral obligation, cultural influences, or religious teaching but good works apart from a saving faith does not result in salvation.

Just so you know, if you are a validly baptized Christian, Rome considers you part of the Church…just imperfectly joined to her.

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

Similar understanding of grace. It’s a gift from God. We definitely don’t deserve it but he gives it to us anyway.

We don’t merit anything for ourselves. Strict merit…saying, “hey God, I did___x__ now you owe me”, was outlawed at the council of Trent.

So if you ever hear this sort of language of us ‘meriting’ anything, it means conduit merit. Us simply cooperating with the grace of God.

We do not believe in Sola Fide - Faith alone…unless you are talking about real faith…Faith WORKING through love :

Galatians 5:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

So really it looks like C’s and P’s are saying the same thing, just speaking different languages on that.

Where we differ quite a bit is on salvation. It is a process that starts in this life and if you are “saved” most likely ends in purgatory before you go to heaven. I tell non Catholics, it’s sort of like taking a shower and getting ready for Church on Sunday mornings. You have to get cleaned up and look presentable for our King (1 Cor 3:15). And so we pray for our dead and the repose of the souls in the “Church suffering”…in fact we believe it is uncharitable and presumptuous not to do so.

BTW- Church for us:

1.) Church triumphant(Heaven)
2.) Church militant(Earth)
3.) Church suffering(Purgatory)

3 branches - all 1 body connected in some mysterious way.

 

[Horton]

This is fascinating. Many of my answers are different. I’m no theologian but I do have 45 years of Southern Baptist Sunday School and several Methodist Vacation Bible Schools under my belt.

Here are the definitions that I, as a protestant, would give to those terms

Church has several definitions depending on context.

• All who have placed their faith in Christ regardless of church membership, denomination and tradition they follow.
• A body of believers who share the same doctrine and practices. Such as the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church and so on
• A local community of believers that meets together for prayer, study, worship, support and encouragement.
• The building where the church meets

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved**. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.
**

Catholics do believe our salvation comes from Jesus Christ. There is no other way to eternal life except through Christ. We also don’t practice “religious rituals”, they are sacraments.

Grace is the unmerited gift of God by which sinners are saved. It cannot be earned by human effort or works of righteousness. God gives the gift of grace to all who come to him in faith. His grace is greater than any of our shortcomings or lack of understanding or sinfulness.

Worship is the seeking to Glorify God through word, song, prayer, service, occupation, fellowship, marriages, family life, recreation, indeed-everything we do. **Worship is to be directed toward God who exist in Three Persons. Idolatry is worshiping anything or anyone other than God.
**

I hope you aren’t saying Catholic practice idolatry. We are Trinitarian, in fact the Catholic Church developed the Truth of the Trinity from the deposit of faith left by Jesus Christ and the apostles.

 

[PluniaZ]

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future.

This is where the real disagreement lies. The Catholic Church, Sacred Scripture, and Tradition are all emphatic that you cannot go on sinning deliberately and remain in the grace of God.

Saint John Chrysostom, around the year 400 AD, commenting on Romans 6:14, said:

“For it is not the Law only that exhorts us, but grace too which also remitted our former sins, and secures us against future ones.”

And on Romans 6:18:

“For if before baptism, it wrought death of the body, and the wound required so great attendance, that the Lord of all came down to die, and so put a stop to the evil; if after so great a gift, and so great liberty, it seize you again, while you bend down under it willingly, what is there that it may not do? Do not then run into such a pit, or willingly give yourself up. For in the case of wars, soldiers are often given up even against their will. But in this case, unless you desert of yourself, there is no one who will get the better of you. Having then tried to shame them by a sense of duty, he alarms them also by the rewards, and lays before them the wages of both; righteousness, and death, and that a death not like the former, but far worse. For if Christ is to die no more, who is to do away with death? No one! We must then be punished, and have vengeance taken upon us forever.”

And finally:

“In like manner it will be no advantage to a Christian to have faith, and the gift of baptism, and yet be open to all the passions.”

newadvent.org/fathers/210211.htm

 

[lanman87]

Catholics do believe our salvation comes from Jesus Christ. There is no other way to eternal life except through Christ. We also don’t practice “religious rituals”, they are sacraments.

I hope you aren’t saying Catholic practice idolatry. We are Trinitarian, in fact the Catholic Church developed the Truth of the Trinity from the deposit of faith left by Jesus Christ and the apostles.

No I’m not saying that. I’m saying that I was taught that to elevate anything above God is idolatry. This could include money, a favorite sports teams or even children or a spouse. The glory of God has primacy over everything.

 

[lanman87]

This is where the real disagreement lies. The Catholic Church, Sacred Scripture, and Tradition are all emphatic that you cannot go on sinning deliberately and remain in the grace of God.

Saint John Chrysostom, around the year 400 AD, commenting on Romans 6:14, said:

“For it is not the Law only that exhorts us, but grace too which also remitted our former sins, and secures us against future ones.”

And on Romans 6:18:

“For if before baptism, it wrought death of the body, and the wound required so great attendance, that the Lord of all came down to die, and so put a stop to the evil; if after so great a gift, and so great liberty, it seize you again, while you bend down under it willingly, what is there that it may not do? Do not then run into such a pit, or willingly give yourself up. For in the case of wars, soldiers are often given up even against their will. But in this case, unless you desert of yourself, there is no one who will get the better of you. Having then tried to shame them by a sense of duty, he alarms them also by the rewards, and lays before them the wages of both; righteousness, and death, and that a death not like the former, but far worse. For if Christ is to die no more, who is to do away with death? No one! We must then be punished, and have vengeance taken upon us forever.”

And finally:

“In like manner it will be no advantage to a Christian to have faith, and the gift of baptism, and yet be open to all the passions.”

newadvent.org/fathers/210211.htm

I’m not here to get into a theological debate I’m simply here to learn about the Catholic Church and am contrasting what I’ve learned with what I’ve been taught. There may come a time I wish to debate theology but right now I’m simply trying to learn the differences and nuances by asking questions instead of just reading from a book or website.

 

[Reuben_J]

This is fascinating. Many of my answers are different. I’m no theologian but I do have 45 years of Southern Baptist Sunday School and several Methodist Vacation Bible Schools under my belt.

Here are the definitions that I, as a protestant, would give to those terms

Thanks for sharing. As a cradle Catholic, I have very little knowledge of Protestantism, its belief and practice. What I know of them is mainly their objection of Catholicism.

I suspect all along that we differ in major definition and if your definition can be used to describe Protestants’ usage, then how true that is.

I will not give you definition of those terms because that would be quiet elusive, you’d get ten different definitions of a term from ten different Catholics but that does not mean they differ but rather in how they see them. Like the writers of the Gospel, each may write what they saw and needed to be written respectively.

Church has several definitions depending on context.

• All who have placed their faith in Christ regardless of church membership, denomination and tradition they follow.
• A body of believers who share the same doctrine and practices. Such as the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church and so on
• A local community of believers that meets together for prayer, study, worship, support and encouragement.
• The building where the church meets

Church means Catholic Church.

Of course we go to church on Sunday or any days but the one with the big cap is quite specific.

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.

No wonder Catholics and Protestants have lots of argument on this because each understands this differently. For Catholics, in a nutshell, salvation is when you are in heaven, not before. Nothing is guaranteed before that.

Grace is the unmerited gift of God by which sinners are saved. It cannot be earned by human effort or works of righteousness. God gives the gift of grace to all who come to him in faith. His grace is greater than any of our shortcomings or lack of understanding or sinfulness.

We are on the same page in the first sentence but slightly differ on the rest, though probably it is more on the semantic.

The second sentence is arguable from a Catholic’s perspective because grace is only received if one cooperates, meaning, willing to receive it or making an effort to receive it. Willing to receive it can be said as involving work. Thus by one’s work one receives grace, so work is a factor too.

Worship is the seeking to Glorify God through word, song, prayer, service, occupation, fellowship, marriages, family life, recreation, indeed-everything we do. Worship is to be directed toward God who exist in Three Persons. Idolatry is worshiping anything or anyone other than God.

Seeking God? I don’t’ know. Generally Catholics would understand worship as giving God the greatest honour and devotion to Him alone, for lack of word.

**Faith ** is the response to the free gift of grace. It is expressed by belief, trust, repentance from sin, and confession that we are sinners who are separated from God and have no hope apart Christ. Genuine faith results in Salvation.

Catholic would understand faith to be way before that, meaning it is believing and hoping in something that one cannot see or touch.

Works are a natural response to Saving Faith. Works is when a New Creature in Christ follows the guidance of the Scripture and the Holy Spirit to glorify God, serve other humans, and proclaim the Good News of Christ to a lost world.

I can agree with your definition of work in that one does it in faithfulness to following Christ and moved by the Holy Spirit. Thus it is as a result of having faith.

Any claim of faith that doesn’t produce works isn’t real faith. On the flip side it is possible for someone to attempt good works out of moral obligation, cultural influences, or religious teaching but good works apart from a saving faith does not result in salvation.

Though I would agree with this, I would not necessary try to define it this way. In other word, I would not make a condition on what faith is.

 

[thephilosopher6]

Church - The Bride of Christ.

Salvation - Forgiveness of sins an attainment of eternal life.

Grace - Free gift from God.

Worship - Praising God in all of his glory.

Faith - We live by it, not by sight.

Works - Ways to show you appreciate God.

 

[Kliska]

Faith - belief in the teachings of the Church.

Works - all the thoughts, words and deeds of a human.

This is an interesting bit because I think there can be qualifiers to help figure out what we are each talking about; there are theological definitions and everyday definitions.

So, here, do Catholics see a difference between “The Faith” and “faith?”

Protestants would define faith and The Faith differently. Faith would be trusting with great confidence while The Faith would be all the deposit of Christian teaching; in essence The Faith would be Christianity.

With “works” it would depend on context. When Paul speaks of works it is a specific meaning, such as the works of the Law. That would not include things like thinking, praying, breathing, etc… which are actions but not “works” (Jews did not have to cease praying, breathing, thinking, etc… on the Sabbath but had to cease from Work).

 

[steido01]

From a Lutheran perspective:

Church
Article VII: Of the Church.
Also they teach that one holy Church is to continue forever. The Church is the congregation of saints, in which the Gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments are rightly administered.

And to the true unity of the Church it is enough to agree concerning the doctrine of the Gospel and the administration of the Sacraments. Nor is it necessary that human traditions, that is, rites or ceremonies, instituted by men, should be everywhere alike. As Paul says: One faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of all, etc. Ep 4:5-6.

Article VIII: What the Church Is.
Although the Church properly is the congregation of saints and true believers, nevertheless, since in this life many hypocrites and evil persons are mingled therewith, it is lawful to use Sacraments administered by evil men, according to the saying of Christ: The Scribes and he Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat, etc. Mt 23:2. Both the Sacraments and Word are effectual by reason of the institution and commandment of Christ, notwithstanding they be administered by evil men…

(From the Augsburg Confession)

Salvation
The recovery from sin and death to eternal life and communion with God by the obedience and sacrifice of Christ, who is therefore called the Savior, Redeemer, Messiah, Rescuer, etc.(Jb 19:25; Is 59:20. Mt 20:28; Ro 3:24; 1Co 6:20; Ga 3:13; 4:4–5; Ep 1:7; 1Ti 2:5–6; 1Pt 1:18). The subject is sinful mankind, under guilt and the curse of the Law and the power and dominion of the devil, liable to death and eternal punishment. Salvation is the result of the sinner receiving the Justification freely offered to all by the Grace of God, but is not “cheap.”

(Edited and paraphrased from the Christian Cyclopedia)

Grace
Good will and favor shown to one who can plead no merit; particularly, the love of God in relation to the sinner as such. There may be love, but not grace, between equals or between a judge and an innocent person. Grace implies mercy or compassion for one who has by every right forfeited his claim on love. Such is the grace of God to the sinner. It is “free” because it is not grounded in any worthiness of man (Ro 11:6). Any admixture of merit, as constituting a claim on mercy, destroys the very essence of grace. Merit and grace are mutually exclusive.

Grace is universal. The entire world is its object. God became incarnate in Christ for the benefit of all men; He died for the atonement of the sins of all; all have been pronounced righteous through His resurrection; the invitation or call of grace is intended for all. No one is excluded from the salvation which grace has provided.

The grace of God is revealed (1) in the sending of His Son into the flesh, (2) in the justification of the sinner who accepts Jesus Christ as his Substitute in Judgment, and in the conversion of the sinner, and (3) in his glorification (resurrection, eternal life). This doctrine of grace gives assurance to Christian faith. Its promises are certain.

Grace is resistible, since it is offered to us through certain means [Word and Sacrament]. Scripture constantly warns not to reject salvation.

(Edited and paraphrased from the Christian Cyclopedia)

Worship
In the most basic sense, it’s the thankful human response to God. This is celebrated in the Christian’s daily life through his vocation, through appreciation for God’s Creation, through loving the neighbor, and most clearly through the Divine Service and reception of the Word and Sacraments.

Faith
The act by which one enters into that right relation to God which the all-atoning work of Christ has established for the whole world. The Bible uses many images to portray faith (e.g., coming to Christ, Mt 11:28; seeing Christ, Jn 14:9; obedient hearing of Christ, Jn 10:27; keeping Christ’s Word, Jn 8:51; laying hold on eternal life, 1 Ti 6:12).

• Faith as knowledge is the grasp with the mind, or the mental possession of that which is communicated (Lk 1:77; Jn 14:7; 17:3; Ro 10:14, 17; 1 Ti 2:4; 2 Ptr 1:3). This salutary knowledge is not mere intellectual acquaintance (Ja 2:19) or technical knowledge (1 Co 2:14), but a product of divine grace which permeates the whole heart (1 Co 2:12; 2 Co 4:6; 2 Ti 1:12).
• Faith as assent is an act of the will which accepts the exalted phenomena presented to the mind. Hence, the preaching of faith is hortatory, pleading, persuasive in its message (Acts 26:28; 28:23). Since man is by nature dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1; Cl 2:13), his coming to spiritual life is the work of God (Jn 6:29; Eph 2:1–10).
• Faith as confidence means that faith is that certainty, that assurance, which is as great and as firm as though we actually had the promised things in our possession, as though we could see, feel, and handle them, as though we had not only the prospect but the substance of these things (Jn 17:8; Ro 4:18–21; 8:24; 2 Ti 1:12; Tts 3:7; Heb 11:1; 1 Ptr 1:3, 13).
• Faith is also thought of as a state. In this respect faith is viewed as the continued possession of the gifts and blessings of God, in and through Christ, through an enduring, abiding confidence in His complete and all-sufficient redemption (Lk 22:32; 2 Co 13:5; Gl 2:20; Cl 2:7; 1 Ti 4:7; 2 Ti 4:7). Christian faith can increase in intensity (2 Co 10:15) and extension (1 Co 1:5).

True faith is a living, energizing, motivating power that propels and urges to action (Mt 17:20; 1 Jn 5:4–5), and conforms the Christian’s will to God’s.

(Edited and paraphrased from the Christian Cyclopedia)

Works
The fruit of a saving faith. Unnecessary for Justification, but a component in Sanctification, which pours out from Justification.

 

[Horton]

No I’m not saying that. I’m saying that I was taught that to elevate anything above God is idolatry. This could include money, a favorite sports teams or even children or a spouse. The glory of God has primacy over everything.

Thank you. It is a tender spot for many Catholics in that we get accused of worshipping statues, sacramental, or another person that is not God. I agree the glory of God has primacy in all things.

 

[AugustTherese]

Works
The fruit of a saving faith. Unnecessary for Justification, but a component in Sanctification, which pours out from Justification.

“You see then that a man is justified by works” - James 2:24 NKJV

 

[Horton]

This is an interesting bit because I think there can be qualifiers to help figure out what we are each talking about; there are theological definitions and everyday definitions.

So, here, do Catholics see a difference between “The Faith” and “faith?”

Protestants would define faith and The Faith differently. Faith would be trusting with great confidence while The Faith would be all the deposit of Christian teaching; in essence The Faith would be Christianity.

With “works” it would depend on context. When Paul speaks of works it is a specific meaning, such as the works of the Law. That would not include things like thinking, praying, breathing, etc… which are actions but not “works” (Jews did not have to cease praying, breathing, thinking, etc… on the Sabbath but had to cease from Work).

I believe we do see and understand the difference very well. The Faith is the Scared Scripture, Sacred Traditions, and teachings of the magisterium. All a result of the deposit of Faith left by Jesus and the Apostles. Faith is the certainty of things unseen.

I do disagree a bit regarding “works”. Works are any efforts made as a result of faith. Prayer is works, when we pray for others, the Church or any intention for the glory of God is it considered works. When I write that check every Sunday morning, slip it into the envelop and place it in the collection, that is works. When I attend Mass, that is works. Works are any use of our time, talent, and treasures to glorify God. Using our gifts to give love, mercy, joy, hope to others. Our works do not have to be spectacular or amazing, we just have to give what we are capable of giving.

 

[kimg901]

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.

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So is this your belief that one can sin always and be forgiven? If that’s true then you can commit a mortal sin over and over and its okay because Jesus forgave you of your sins prior? If that’s the case why did Jesus let himself suffer then be killed if we are to continue to commit sin?

 

[lanman87]

So is this your belief that one can sin always and be forgiven? If that’s true then you can commit a mortal sin over and over and its okay because Jesus forgave you of your sins prior? If that’s the case why did Jesus let himself suffer then be killed if we are to continue to commit sin?

I’m wary of answering on a public forum for a few reasons

1. I’m a guest here and this your home. I wouldn’t want someone coming into my home and questioning my belief system.
2. I’m not interested in have flame wars on a message board. Nobody’s opinion ever changes because of a debate on a message board. If you would like to have a one on one respectful dialog I would be more than happy to.
3. My purpose here is not to debate doctrine or practices. It is to learn about the Catholic church and why you believe the way you believe and compare it to what the Bible says. I’m very much trying to be a Berean.

Acts 17:11 NASB
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I’m wary of answering on a public forum for a few reasons

1. I’m a guest here and this your home. I wouldn’t want someone coming into my home and questioning my belief system.
2. I’m not interested in have flame wars on a message board. Nobody’s opinion ever changes because of a debate on a message board. If you would like to have a one on one respectful dialog I would be more than happy to.
3. My purpose here is not to debate doctrine or practices. It is to learn about the Catholic church and why you believe the way you believe and compare it to what the Bible says. I’m very much trying to be a Berean.

Acts 17:11 NASB
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Just so you know, we believe that in order to totally grasp the true understanding of the New Testament as a totality, you must also see through a 1st century Jewish lense.

So in your studies, if some things are not making much sense, it’s good to dig a little deeper as to why the Church does it or teaches it(whatever it is) and connect the dots.

 

[Tommy999]

Salvation is that moment when someone accepts the gift of grace by faith. Christ forgive all sins: past, present and future. At that moment the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer, makes them a new creation, adopts them into the Family of God, seals them, and compels the believer to mature in faith and works. We also believe that we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. However, to a protestant it is Christ who has saved us, is saving us and will save us. He does this, not because of our righteousness, good deeds, or religious ritual, but because of His Love and Grace that he freely gives to all who have placed faith in Him.

I think this view is most widely held by Southern Baptists and a few others, but not all Protestants believe like this about salvation. Most believe that we are sinners saved by God’s grace and that Salvation is a process, not a one-time event.

For instance, in my case, I “got saved” at a Billy Graham crusade decades ago but I later realized that it was more of a spiritual awakening or kick-start in which Christ became real and relevant in my life for the first time after I made a decision to follow Him at the crusade. Prior to then, I had been attending church for a while (Presbyterian) with my parents but the Christian faith was an abstract to me and did not make any real difference in my life until that moment at the crusade.

After that moment when I invited Jesus to be Lord of my life, His presence in my life became palpable. I started to read my Bible regularly and wanted to grow closer to Him spiritually. I wanted Him to help mold me into the person He wanted me to be and to help others, unlike what I was doing up until that time. I wanted to be a disciple of Christ.

I consider myself to have matured in the Christian faith ever since, but there is much I still don’t know and I am still a sinner, although with Christ’s help I don’t sin as much as I once did. I still ask for God’s pardon in Christ’s name when I do sin, but I would never say that I could sin and keep sinning without repenting. To sin and keep sinning without repentance under the presumption that my soul was already eternally saved would be presumptuous and spiritually reckless of me.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood your position on salvation being a moment in time in which all our sins are forgiven, both past, present, and future. I assume you would also believe in the need for Christians to repent and ask God to forgive their sins, right, even after they were “saved”?